American Parkour Forum

Parkour and Freerunning => Parkour And Freerunning => Topic started by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 07:04:55 PM

Title: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 07:04:55 PM
I think it woulkd be amazing if they put PK in the x-games!

they could like build a huge course and say get from point a to point b and the one that does it the fastest would be the winner...

of course they could do it any number of ways including using freerunning instead and doing a point based system for the tricks


this would also definately put parkour out there for people to see.  so this could help boost us tremendously
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Jake Vigil on January 31, 2009, 07:26:51 PM
I actually think UF is going to be in the Xgames this year.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Casquinha on January 31, 2009, 07:45:41 PM
If Freerunning Is added, it would probably be like what was in the World Freerunning Championships back in September.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Jake Vigil on January 31, 2009, 07:48:09 PM
Now, remember, this is entirely hearsay.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 08:01:58 PM
ya but what if we could actually get it into the x-games?
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Casquinha on January 31, 2009, 08:10:10 PM
I think there has to be an international governing body first.  I don't know of one which is established well enough to gain a position in the X Games.  Being that the first competition was held in September, I don't see the X Games directors or ESPN adding it to the roster of events anytime soon.  Although it could be an exhibition sport.  That's always a possibility.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 08:11:41 PM
it's still something that we could work towards
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Stephanie Belle Hagan on January 31, 2009, 08:13:34 PM
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Not okay!

I thought parkour/freerunning was strictly no competition. The X-games would totally defy that!  :o

But if they could find a way that there would be no winners/losers, then I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 08:23:17 PM
o ya i completeley forgot about that, but maby we could find someway to let some traceurs to demo the sport especieally if they broadcast the demo that might be a good thing..

o ya and sorry about forgetting about that kind of thing i was just caught up in a moment  :-[
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alissa J. Bratz on January 31, 2009, 08:24:32 PM
(http://skugg.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/can-of-worms.jpg)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Stephanie Belle Hagan on January 31, 2009, 08:26:36 PM
o ya i completeley forgot about that, but maby we could find someway to let some traceurs to demo the sport especieally if they broadcast the demo that might be a good thing..

o ya and sorry about forgetting about that kind of thing i was just caught up in a moment  :-[

Haha no worries mate. It would be pretty cool though if they did a demo or something, and a decent way to get the word out without offending traceurs/traceueses.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 08:36:27 PM
ya thanks for not taking my comments badly and i love the can of worms muse lol  :P
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alec Furtado on January 31, 2009, 08:42:50 PM
I don't think parkour and competition mix well in practice nor in principle.


But yes, Muse, very true.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Mathew C on January 31, 2009, 08:47:11 PM
I don't think parkour and competition mix well in practice nor in principle.


But yes, Muse, very true.

By definition they aren't compatible. If you move as quickly and efficiently as possible with the goal of doing so 'better' than another person with no practical purpose, you aren't doing parkour.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 08:48:59 PM
ya but still doing a demo, like i stated above, or workshop at the x-games would guve a HUGE boost to the sport considering how many people go to the x-games and watch them
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Mathew C on January 31, 2009, 08:54:24 PM
I disagree. I think that any association with the X games works against the huge collective effort to counteract the wrong impressions people get based on parkour's aesthetics.

So does calling it a sport  :P
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 09:19:59 PM
thx for that imput man and i totaly see your point, i actualy just read an article about a letter in which David Belle was disappointed in where PK is going.  he sais this in that there are to many inexpierienced thrill seekers trying to teach it and destroying the people they teach..

in syaing all of this if we actually ended up doing this it would definateley need alot of explination and be carried out with gteat care
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Chris Kessler on January 31, 2009, 09:26:49 PM
I agree with Muse.

Enough said.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 09:32:26 PM
ok i am officially over my moment and will now stop pusing this topic, but if u have something to add or just some plain old input, plz feel free to post here  :-X :P ;D
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alex B on January 31, 2009, 09:44:21 PM
freerunning could become a competition sport, because of the tricks. but parkour cannot be a competition sport. it should not be a competition sport, and hopefully it wont become a competition sport.

I prefer to think of parkour as an art not a sport anyway.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on January 31, 2009, 10:21:54 PM
i see what u mean, and these are definite points to consider if this is actually followed through with (probably not any time soon)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alec Furtado on January 31, 2009, 11:02:07 PM
freerunning could become a competition sport, because of the tricks.
And it has. From what I've seen already, I'm not impressed in the least. Ignoring the obvious flaws in the concept, as a viewer I don't find it entertaining. Watch gymnastics, skateboarding, etc but the competitions are just lacking (I've only seen trick ones). The only viable concept I would want to see is an obstacle course type of thing. Can anybody say Ninja Warrior?

I prefer to think of parkour as an art not a sport anyway.
Technically it's not but that doesn't matter to quite a few people that don't visit a dictionary frequently. ;D ;)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on February 01, 2009, 05:56:25 AM
i see your point and it is definately good to have a viewpoint of someone that has been there befor...

this being said i think this forum has changed from PK in the x-games to ways to advance PK and freerunning in our communities and our world...

if anyone has anything to say on this new topic or even the origional plz feel free to post your heart out
    -but remember we would like to support and uphold the principles of PK in everything that we do for it
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: andrew aguilo on February 01, 2009, 07:27:51 AM
I don't get the 'opening up a can of worms' metaphor...  ???
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: JC* on February 01, 2009, 12:04:02 PM
What im about to say is probably going to offend the lot of you but at this point I think it needs to be said. As Americans being raised in a controversial society where raging war and games dont go without competition (for example as young children) we go out with friends and live to compete weather its "racing to the finish line" or seeing who can swim the fastest. We as Americans are accustomed to competition. Though I personally do not favor it most people do and as painful as it is to say America is probably the leading cause of why parkour is going to become based over competition.

This reminds me of how Martial arts and even skateboarding started off, at first they were about sole skating anti-comp and a discipline where attaining strength and valor was necessary, now they are both about competition.

In conclusion its almost inevitable that pk is going to be and already has become competitive.

*Take this as you will but I see it as reaching out and getting this off of my chest.
*In no way do I approve competition but who am I to say!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Chris Salvato on February 01, 2009, 01:08:17 PM
i would say competition is more human than american...
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dustin Miller on February 01, 2009, 01:17:08 PM
Good lord, no. I am one of those people who strongly disagree with competition of any kind in parkour. I think that putting parkour in the x-games would be a debasement of the sport and a ravaging of all that it stands for.

No...
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Moa on February 01, 2009, 01:41:35 PM
Definitely not.
I have been watching the x-games and if parkour were in it first off the best traceurs would NOT go so it would just be the extreme youtube "traceurs" who actually go. Aside from that the entire vibe given off by the X-Games is very commercial and counter-cultural, when I watch the X-Games I constantly feel like they are trying to sell me something and since there is very little commercial appeal to parkour meaning that you cannot really sell traceurs much maybe a pair of shoes but nothing else. Many of the sports in the X-Games have their own type of impractical clothing to sell to people who want to advertise what they do. The Parkour community for the most part attempts to be above that and most likely will wear whatever is practical so in short Parkour will most likely not be in the X-Games for a very long time.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Matthew Wang on February 01, 2009, 02:20:32 PM
One of the things I love about Parkour is it's lack of serious competition. You can compete against friends and push each other to increase your limits such as "I bet I can wall run up that wall over there" and eventually you'll both get it from this competition. But it's not a serious competition. No one is going around saying "Oh, I just smashed you." or "Ha! That newbie sucks!! Look at his failure of a kong!" Those who are traceur in mind and body never brag or boast about what they can do and someone can't. They don't yell at someone for not doing something right. They don't punish their friends with hard exercises because they missed a precision. They don't curse at fellow traceurs for missing one of the biggest jams/events of the year. There isn't any smack talk about "less skilled" traceurs.

It's all friendly competition, or no competition at all (excluding self-competition).

If Parkour was brought into the X-games or Olympics, I believe serious competition may arise. Then the smack-talk and the bragging rights and the orgranized-teams-with-coaches-that-boss-you-around will show up, and personally, I just don't want any of that. Parkour for me has always seemed like a friendly sport that never forms hate between two people because of the lack of competition. Lets keep it that way. :)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 01, 2009, 03:03:12 PM
I would like to say that the philosophy of parkour would stop parkour specifically from ever being in the games. Freerunning MAYBE but I still think that wouldn't work. Tricking, though seems reasonable. There's really no philosophy connected to it and it's VERY trick based. Then parkour and freerunning still wouldn't have competition tied to the name. Sounded good to me.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 01, 2009, 03:06:23 PM
O and if they ever put parkour in the x games it would only be parkour to viewers who didn't know what it was other than what they were seeing in the games. Parkour itself will NEVER be in the games. Not possible, not the real parkour.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 01, 2009, 03:17:49 PM
What im about to say is probably going to offend the lot of you but at this point I think it needs to be said. As Americans being raised in a controversial society where raging war and games dont go without competition (for example as young children) we go out with friends and live to compete weather its "racing to the finish line" or seeing who can swim the fastest. We as Americans are accustomed to competition. Though I personally do not favor it most people do and as painful as it is to say America is probably the leading cause of why parkour is going to become based over competition.

This reminds me of how Martial arts and even skateboarding started off, at first they were about sole skating anti-comp and a discipline where attaining strength and valor was necessary, now they are both about competition.

In conclusion its almost inevitable that pk is going to be and already has become competitive.

*Take this as you will but I see it as reaching out and getting this off of my chest.
*In no way do I approve competition but who am I to say!

Almost everything in life is a competition literally from when you're conceived, to when you die.  It's hard for me to read topics like this because of the generally ridiculous things that people say in it.  NOBODY HERE KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN COMPETITION GETS BIG.  The only person qualified to even talk about competition is Skipper.  The rest of  you keep on saying the shit that you really don't know about and is all speculation.  Parkour is all about competition its even in the definition.  Think of a utilitarian example of parkour and its competition.  Your running away from a rapist?  Competition.  Your saving a child from a burning building?  Competition.  It seems like all the people that want parkour to stay uncompetitive just want parkour to stay small so they're doing something different from anyone else.  I'm sorry it had to come out this way but i just cannot stand the dumb shit that gets said in these topics.  Oh and sorry JC i'm not singling you out or anything i'm just talking about the thread in general.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alec Furtado on February 01, 2009, 04:00:51 PM
Parkour is all about competition its even in the definition.  Think of a utilitarian example of parkour and its competition.  Your running away from a rapist?  Competition.  Your saving a child from a burning building?  Competition.  It seems like all the people that want parkour to stay uncompetitive just want parkour to stay small so they're doing something different from anyone else.  I'm sorry it had to come out this way but i just cannot stand the dumb shit that gets said in these topics.  Oh and sorry JC i'm not singling you out or anything i'm just talking about the thread in general.
But, like, those things are not in the least about doing it for fame, money, or simply recognition. I guess I'd call it a more pure version of competition. You are technically correct but the idea in this thread is about gameshow/tournament kind of things. Maybe you still don't think there is a difference though.



In the end though, it is stupid to completely condemn competition. How did it start in the first place? DB and friends challenging each other, competing.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 01, 2009, 07:28:59 PM
Parkour is all about competition its even in the definition.  Think of a utilitarian example of parkour and its competition.  Your running away from a rapist?  Competition.  Your saving a child from a burning building?  Competition.  It seems like all the people that want parkour to stay uncompetitive just want parkour to stay small so they're doing something different from anyone else.  I'm sorry it had to come out this way but i just cannot stand the dumb shit that gets said in these topics.  Oh and sorry JC i'm not singling you out or anything i'm just talking about the thread in general.
But, like, those things are not in the least about doing it for fame, money, or simply recognition. I guess I'd call it a more pure version of competition. You are technically correct but the idea in this thread is about gameshow/tournament kind of things. Maybe you still don't think there is a difference though.



In the end though, it is stupid to completely condemn competition. How did it start in the first place? DB and friends challenging each other, competing.

I'm not really sure whats wrong with doing it for fame, money or recognition.  Would you really have a problem with Levi making a money off competing against other people?  Sure theres the concern that people might get into it ONLY for those reasons, but not only is the likelihood small that, that will happen its even smaller that those people will be any good.  I just can't see somebody being like "oh i'm gonna get really good at this little known sport called parkour just so i can be rich and famous."
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Mathew C on February 02, 2009, 02:30:29 AM
What's wrong with doing it for fame, money, or recognition is that those things are completely contrary to parkour's philosophy. Show me an athlete who's first, absolute priority as an athlete is self improvement, and who strives for fame - it isn't possible. Sure, you could find an athlete who only chooses the path that is best for him/herself, and will accept fame if it happens to be on that path, but to give it any priority is impossible while maintaining an ideal of self improvement. For one, humility is a necessary virtue if one is to truly progress as a person. Same goes for money. Although, I will concede that I see nothing wrong with parkour as a means of making a living - you have to live in order to improve after all...

And Sat, have some courtesy. Please. I respect your opinions and views, please have some respect for others'.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: JC* on February 02, 2009, 10:25:19 AM
Sat everyone is entitled to their opinions and just because they dont fit a standard or dont sound good to you deosnt make nay sayers completly stupid at the least. I've got to admit that hit a littleclose to home although you werent singling me out. Take matt's advice and do have some courtisy. I really dont see Skipper on here contributing so for now this'll have to do.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 02, 2009, 12:42:44 PM
You know, although you're right about it being in the "future" the past is the best description of what the future will hold. So, you're correct in saying that we don't know EXACTLY what will happen in the future of Parkour, you can't say that we don't know anything that's goign to happen. Because Parkour is a sport, all "Extreme" sports started like this, and I can say with full confidence that people WILL start doing for the pure fame and fortune. It will happen. And those are the people that will ruin the name. Like I said before though, if they slapped a different name on it, it wouldn't have the same philosophy behind it therefore everyone's happy and you still get the "Parkour" based competition you're seeking.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Spencer B on February 02, 2009, 02:45:28 PM
It all comes down to person... If you remember the Traceur psychological study, and I'm only counting posts actually made in the thread itself, then you see that Parkour is a discipline dominated almost entirely by intuitive people. Other sports are dominated by sensory based people. Really what it comes down to is keeping people who have no self-discipline or are primarily extrinsically motivated (Sensory based people) out of Parkour, because they will sulley it's name and destroy the idea of no-competition or that we practice a discipline because they will get more attention from the general public and then, only then will we be faced with Parkour as a, ugh... sport.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 02, 2009, 03:11:43 PM
all "Extreme" sports started like this

False.  Extreme sports didn't start like this.  I really wish i had time to go in depth about this whole thread but I don't right now.  I guess i don't fully know the history of all these sports, but lets take skateboarding.  Skateboarding had a very violent and tumultuous beginning in california with people breaking into backyards, and even harming other skaters when they were encroaching (see dogtown and z boys).  A much better example of what parkour or free running will be like in competitions is climbing.  Climbing competitions are something we could strive to emulate.  All of the climbers are super competitive, but at the same time they are all super friendly, and even encouraging to their competitors.  Come to think of it now, so are the xgames.  The guys are all really humble and always compliment their competitors more than they do themselves, since they are all really close friends. 

Mattew/JC I apologize but i stand by what i said.  People here really have no clue whats happening, and so far competition has worked out well for most sports especially climbing.  I'd love to keep talking about this but i have class so i may come back to this.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 02, 2009, 08:37:13 PM
Well, I give up. This is obviously going in circles. I'll pop back in every once and a while to see if it's gone anywhere. I'm pretty sick of these threads popping up to be perfectly honest.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 02, 2009, 09:06:44 PM
I'm against all competition within parkour.  Especially within the X-Games.  The X-Games because parkour shouldn't be classified in the same thing as BMX and skaters.  It isn't a sport, it is a discipline.

I do parkour for myself and others.  I don't train for fame or glory.  It isn't entirely true that parkour is without competition.  It is without competition with each other.  The competition is with ourselves.  Striving to become better.  We challenge ourselves, not others.

And I have a quote here by Matthew W. that I like to remember.
"The philosophy defines the movement, the movement does not define the philosophy."

Even if they called such a competition "Parkour Championships".  Even if the competitors were traceurs.  Even if it looks like parkour.  It isn't.  And it never will be.  You have the wrong philosophy running your head.  You wouldn't be doing parkour.  You would be making a bunch of movements not for the sake of getting from point A to point B as fast as possible.  Not to help other people.  Not to better yourself.  But to only to be better than your opponents.  I hate saying that.  No single traceur should be seen as an enemy to another.  We all fight the same fight and we're all on the same side.  We help and inspire others to grow and learn and fight the same battle.
The only competition in parkour is against ourselves.

Healthy competition is healthy, like slapping stickers to see how high you can wall run just for fun.  But you and I should both be smart enough to know that if anything like this becomes official it will degrade.  Gradually and slowly it will begin to lose its meaning.  It will soon be all about the competition and not about the philosophy.  I am not against competition, I am against competition with each other.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 02, 2009, 09:33:17 PM
Thank You, that's all I was trying to convey.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 03, 2009, 08:47:22 AM
I'm against all competition within parkour.  Especially within the X-Games.  The X-Games because parkour shouldn't be classified in the same thing as BMX and skaters.  It isn't a sport, it is a discipline.

I do parkour for myself and others.  I don't train for fame or glory.  It isn't entirely true that parkour is without competition.  It is without competition with each other.  The competition is with ourselves.  Striving to become better.  We challenge ourselves, not others.

And I have a quote here by Matthew W. that I like to remember.
"The philosophy defines the movement, the movement does not define the philosophy."

Even if they called such a competition "Parkour Championships".  Even if the competitors were traceurs.  Even if it looks like parkour.  It isn't.  And it never will be.  You have the wrong philosophy running your head.  You wouldn't be doing parkour.  You would be making a bunch of movements not for the sake of getting from point A to point B as fast as possible.  Not to help other people.  Not to better yourself.  But to only to be better than your opponents.  I hate saying that.  No single traceur should be seen as an enemy to another.  We all fight the same fight and we're all on the same side.  We help and inspire others to grow and learn and fight the same battle.
The only competition in parkour is against ourselves.

Healthy competition is healthy, like slapping stickers to see how high you can wall run just for fun.  But you and I should both be smart enough to know that if anything like this becomes official it will degrade.  Gradually and slowly it will begin to lose its meaning.  It will soon be all about the competition and not about the philosophy.  I am not against competition, I am against competition with each other.

What exactly qualifies you as a parkour philosophy expert?  I'm sick of hearing people say that the philosophy of parkour is against competition.  According to whom?  David Belle is about as active in the community as the bannana next to me on the desk.  Should we remember and respect him for bringing parkour to us?  Yes.  Should we continue to look to him for advice which is obviously not forthcoming?  No.  You say that you do parkour for yourself and others, why does that have to change?  Just because some people are competing somewhere why is that going to affect your training?  Your right about it not being parkour though.  People do parkour maybe once a week, the rest of it is training for parkour, but i'm still kind've confused why you would bring that up.  Whens the last time that you did parkour.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Chris Kessler on February 03, 2009, 09:21:54 AM
What exactly qualifies you as a parkour philosophy expert?  I'm sick of hearing people say that the philosophy of parkour is against competition.  According to whom?  David Belle is about as active in the community as the bannana next to me on the desk.  Should we remember and respect him for bringing parkour to us?  Yes.  Should we continue to look to him for advice which is obviously not forthcoming?  No.  You say that you do parkour for yourself and others, why does that have to change?  Just because some people are competing somewhere why is that going to affect your training?  Your right about it not being parkour though.  People do parkour maybe once a week, the rest of it is training for parkour, but i'm still kind've confused why you would bring that up.  Whens the last time that you did parkour.



That's like saying, "Let's ignore the teachings of Plato, Socrates, Ghandi, Malcolm X. They aren't here, and this is now, their teachings were nice, but now it's time for us to 'make up' out own way."

There IS a philosophy to parkour. Parkour as it started. Be strong to help others, point A to point B, efficiency; these are all parts of the parkour philosophy. Just because the founder is a recluse doesn't mean that parkour itself has to change. AKA Freerunning. Parkour didn't change, Freerunning was born from it.

If you have a competition, call it freerunning and I'm sure most of us will be happy with that.

Honestly, I don't give a damn what you call it, but at least I have to courtesy to respect others' opinions and values and not to tread on what they believe in.

What makes him an expert on parkour philosophy? Well, he's a traceur, and he obviously has read up on his stuff. What makes you an expert critic? The door goes both ways. Keep it civil, don't use snide comments like "What makes you an expert..." Because degrading your critical thinking skills down to that level defeats the whole purpose of argument.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: danhezee on February 03, 2009, 10:53:47 AM

That's like saying, "Let's ignore the teachings of Plato, Socrates, Ghandi, Malcolm X. They aren't here, and this is now, their teachings were nice, but now it's time for us to 'make up' out own way."


I nominate the quoted line above as biggest strawman of 2009.  And yes we do ignore some of the teaching of Plato and Socrates. IIRC, Socrates taught the solar system revolved around the earth and used the retrograde and prograde movements of the planets as proof. There are several examples of both of them being wrong, but we continue to respect them.  As far as Ghandi and Malcolm X,  many people respect them but I doubt that even you agree with everything they taught 100%.

But on a more serious note, I like the idea of the xgames hosting a parkour challenge.  It could be like ninja warrior have several predefined courses.  The first course is open to all takers those who survive get to go to the next challenge.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 03, 2009, 04:16:45 PM
Theres always a time where the student should surpass the master.  There are many arguments for either side, so i'll just present one real quick.  It is almost selfish to not have parkour competitions.  The reason for this is this would bring unparalleled exposure to parkour.  Think about how much parkour has changed your life, now wouldn't you want that for everybody else?  We would have much more people starting to do parkour.  You might argue that people might not have the true philosophy of parkour in their hearts, or something similar.  However, why would it matter if it is making that person more useful, more fit, and maybe even a better person all around.  Competition would also bring out the best of training.  When competition becomes big, we will begin to see what people are really capable of.  Right now there isn't a single person in the world who is training for parkour to the extent they could be (oly lifting all the time, sprints, nutrition, plyo's, weights etc...)  This is what competition would allow.  It would bring whole new levels of training, and improvement to the community.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Patrick Yang on February 03, 2009, 05:19:20 PM
Sat, although I agree that we can spread parkour to more people with the X-Games, I argue that it would be difficult to keep it as the right kind of exposure.  Already YouTube has done the community a great disservice in that for every good piece of parkour media out on the web, there are scores more made with the "go big or go home" attitude.  It's hard to control how media edited and produced by third parties portray the discipline.  When you're talking about something that reaches such a wide audience, how can we keep people from watching it and jumping off of fifteen-foot ledges and calling it parkour?  Without being able to expound on the importance of proper conditioning, without the control to give them the entire picture, we do more harm than good.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 03, 2009, 07:11:30 PM
Theres always a time where the student should surpass the master.  There are many arguments for either side, so i'll just present one real quick.  It is almost selfish to not have parkour competitions.  The reason for this is this would bring unparalleled exposure to parkour.  Think about how much parkour has changed your life, now wouldn't you want that for everybody else?  We would have much more people starting to do parkour.  You might argue that people might not have the true philosophy of parkour in their hearts, or something similar.  However, why would it matter if it is making that person more useful, more fit, and maybe even a better person all around.  Competition would also bring out the best of training.  When competition becomes big, we will begin to see what people are really capable of.  Right now there isn't a single person in the world who is training for parkour to the extent they could be (oly lifting all the time, sprints, nutrition, plyo's, weights etc...)  This is what competition would allow.  It would bring whole new levels of training, and improvement to the community.
I have a bone to pick with you.

It is every master's dream for the student to surpass them.  And yet... It is not up to the students to decide when they have surpassed their master.  The master will be the one to say who has surpassed who.  By claiming yourself to be better than those who taught you, you only prove how much you have yet to learn.

Unparalleled exposure hmm?  I agree that it would bring parkour into the light.  However, this would be the wrong type of exposure.  It is better to expose fewer people to the true face of parkour than to simply expose more people to what appears to be parkour.  There is a  reason Parkour Generations and Majestic Force are teaming up to ensure not just the movements of parkour are taught correctly, but the philosophy behind it.  It would be folly to disregard these founders.  I'm sure you heard that Australian traceur that said he did parkour for the thrill.  I don't expose thrill seekers to parkour.  In fact, when there are "hot-shot jocks" around I don't train on anything that looks cool so they won't try to copy me.  I've had a kid copy a rail precision that was four feet above the ground.  He could of easily slipped and cracked his head open.  I had spent nearly a year getting to this point that I had stressed to them before NOT to do it.  He goes and does it anyway.  What does that say to the people who see all of these moves on the X-Games even if they have plenty of warnings they say, "Don't try this at home."
It is important to spread parkour to those who want to learn it, but only to those doing it because they love doing it, not for the thrill it gives.  I started parkour because it appealed to me.  Not the thrill.  The difference.  I wanted to learn it because it was something different and it amazed me.  A week later when I went to the PKGen's training in Columbus, albeit for one day.  I truly learned what parkour was about.  I met someone who my first initial thoughts of was that he was some type of laid back "too cool for you" emo kid.  I honestly thought that.  I was kind of revolted by his appearance.  But he turned out to be extremely nice.  My prejudice was folly.  It wasn't just him though.  Every traceur I met there, every single one was kind, courteous, helpful, nice, and I could tell there was some type of magical attraction between all of us.  Everyone respected everyone.  It was an unspoken mutual respect.  It amazed me.  There was like what? Fifty to seventy-five people there on the second training day and they all got along.  It didn't matter how good you were, it didn't matter how high you could wall run.  You were treated with the same respect regardless of your skill level.  THIS is what parkour is about.
I fear competition would destroy this bond.  We would want to become better than others.  We would think ourselves higher than others.  Suddenly it matters that your better than someone.  Suddenly animosity would form.  The bond would be destroyed.  Parkour would be destroyed.

Competition would bring out the worst.  A precision has the weight of everything up to this moment on it.  You are bogged down by expectations of others.  What if you're not the best?  What if you're not the greatest?  What will happen to you?  It is like you're wearing weights.  Weights that will keep you from flying.  People will take risks for the sake of the gold, risks we always stress not to take.  Do you not understand that we don't train to do parkour?  We should be training parkour because we love doing it, not for any reason.  I know nearly everyone here will agree with me when I say that I bet no one who has been training parkour for a year or more isn't in it for anything but the love of doing it.

Parkour shouldn't be lumped into being an X-Game.  Everywhere people say it'll become the next skating.  I fear they may be right.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on February 03, 2009, 07:29:49 PM
Lets face it Parkour looks cool. Many people go to skate parks with a Skatboard and just stand around. Why? because it looks cool. Parkour is being pulled closer and closer to being the next skateboarding. I believe we should fight this current. My reason is that Skateboarding is done mostly by people that 1. want to get girls 2. want to look cool 3. TO hang out with cool people. Now I respect Boarders but you have to admit this is true to some extent :-\. A huge part of Parkour is its Philosophy and inspirational depth. Now if Parkour became an X-game we all know it would be exploited and advertised as, well, an extreme sport for lack of better wording. I thought most of us agreed parkour was developed as an art, not a sport. COmpetition may very well wash away parkours values. Now local jams with races, games, ext are extremely fun and i enjoy doing that kind of thing with friends but if Parkour was an X game pretty soon all the kids that know nothing about it other than it looks cool will wash in like crazy. I just want to keep parkours values preserved.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 03, 2009, 08:45:07 PM
+1 Daniel and PKAB
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 03, 2009, 09:41:48 PM
Theres always a time where the student should surpass the master.  There are many arguments for either side, so i'll just present one real quick.  It is almost selfish to not have parkour competitions.  The reason for this is this would bring unparalleled exposure to parkour.  Think about how much parkour has changed your life, now wouldn't you want that for everybody else?  We would have much more people starting to do parkour.  You might argue that people might not have the true philosophy of parkour in their hearts, or something similar.  However, why would it matter if it is making that person more useful, more fit, and maybe even a better person all around.  Competition would also bring out the best of training.  When competition becomes big, we will begin to see what people are really capable of.  Right now there isn't a single person in the world who is training for parkour to the extent they could be (oly lifting all the time, sprints, nutrition, plyo's, weights etc...)  This is what competition would allow.  It would bring whole new levels of training, and improvement to the community.
I have a bone to pick with you.

It is every master's dream for the student to surpass them.  And yet... It is not up to the students to decide when they have surpassed their master.  The master will be the one to say who has surpassed who.  By claiming yourself to be better than those who taught you, you only prove how much you have yet to learn.

Unparalleled exposure hmm?  I agree that it would bring parkour into the light.  However, this would be the wrong type of exposure.  It is better to expose fewer people to the true face of parkour than to simply expose more people to what appears to be parkour.  There is a  reason Parkour Generations and Majestic Force are teaming up to ensure not just the movements of parkour are taught correctly, but the philosophy behind it.  It would be folly to disregard these founders.  I'm sure you heard that Australian traceur that said he did parkour for the thrill.  I don't expose thrill seekers to parkour.  In fact, when there are "hot-shot jocks" around I don't train on anything that looks cool so they won't try to copy me.  I've had a kid copy a rail precision that was four feet above the ground.  He could of easily slipped and cracked his head open.  I had spent nearly a year getting to this point that I had stressed to them before NOT to do it.  He goes and does it anyway.  What does that say to the people who see all of these moves on the X-Games even if they have plenty of warnings they say, "Don't try this at home."
It is important to spread parkour to those who want to learn it, but only to those doing it because they love doing it, not for the thrill it gives.  I started parkour because it appealed to me.  Not the thrill.  The difference.  I wanted to learn it because it was something different and it amazed me.  A week later when I went to the PKGen's training in Columbus, albeit for one day.  I truly learned what parkour was about.  I met someone who my first initial thoughts of was that he was some type of laid back "too cool for you" emo kid.  I honestly thought that.  I was kind of revolted by his appearance.  But he turned out to be extremely nice.  My prejudice was folly.  It wasn't just him though.  Every traceur I met there, every single one was kind, courteous, helpful, nice, and I could tell there was some type of magical attraction between all of us.  Everyone respected everyone.  It was an unspoken mutual respect.  It amazed me.  There was like what? Fifty to seventy-five people there on the second training day and they all got along.  It didn't matter how good you were, it didn't matter how high you could wall run.  You were treated with the same respect regardless of your skill level.  THIS is what parkour is about.
I fear competition would destroy this bond.  We would want to become better than others.  We would think ourselves higher than others.  Suddenly it matters that your better than someone.  Suddenly animosity would form.  The bond would be destroyed.  Parkour would be destroyed.

Competition would bring out the worst.  A precision has the weight of everything up to this moment on it.  You are bogged down by expectations of others.  What if you're not the best?  What if you're not the greatest?  What will happen to you?  It is like you're wearing weights.  Weights that will keep you from flying.  People will take risks for the sake of the gold, risks we always stress not to take.  Do you not understand that we don't train to do parkour?  We should be training parkour because we love doing it, not for any reason.  I know nearly everyone here will agree with me when I say that I bet no one who has been training parkour for a year or more isn't in it for anything but the love of doing it.

Parkour shouldn't be lumped into being an X-Game.  Everywhere people say it'll become the next skating.  I fear they may be right.

+1 well posted sir.  Alright where to begin, haha this is endless!  You talk about the master deciding when the student has surpassed them, but there is no master like that in parkour.  There is nobody really that I look upto as the ultimate authority in parkour right now.  I'm actually not really a fan of the yamakasi or pkgen much at all.  Especially Dan Edwardes that guy is the biggest elitist D-bag around (even coming from people that have met him) The yamakasi may have the mental side of the whole parkour thing down, but their training methods are pretty much useless in my opinion for a lot of things.  Sure they might build up your mental toughness, but hey so will kicking yourself in the balls (that'll go a lot quicker too)  I agree that we do need to worry about the people who see it and go out and try stupid shit, but honestly they would probably see parkour at some point in their lives and do that anyway.  If anything the competition will bring some legitimacy to the sport.  I don't see why it is any different for BMX.  That is, why don't people go out and try a backflip on a bicycle right away?  Some people do, and there will always be those people.  We are not going to be able to account for all these people, and it is silly to even try.  As far as the jam atmosphere being ruined i don't think thats a problem.  I agree the jam atmosphere at the COPK jam yearly has been amazingly awesome.  Only a small majority of those people would have competed and they probably would all be friends.  Competition is just the next logical step for the growth of parkour.  Like media before it, people are scared about what might happen.  When parkour was first introduced in movies people said that it would ruin parkour, or that the person was selling out.  People even said that about B13.  The new thing will always be scary to some people but we just have to embrace it before it forces itself upon us.  Lets face it, competition will happen.  My only worry is that it won't be done right.  Thats why I think the community needs to come together and just try to make it the best possible scenario it can possibly be.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on February 04, 2009, 05:37:38 PM
I'm glad that you guys are getting so into this thread and it has caused me to sway back and forth on this issue once or twice.

This being said I think that this issue is part of a bigger issue, The Advancement of Parkour
   so i'm going to repost it under this title to open it up more and get into some new and different discussions about how we plan to meaninfully spread PK to the world in a respectful way.

So look for the topic The Advancement of Parkour and i will leave this topic open for a little longer...

Thx,
  -Eric
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Stephanie Belle Hagan on February 04, 2009, 06:56:29 PM
Um. I wish I could contribute to this, but WOW. I'm seriously just wow'ed. I can't handle it. My brain needs to like, digest the beauty of all the posts. +1 to Daniel, PKAB, Sat, etc... you guys all bring up fantastic interesting points.  :D

I need to lie down lol. Seriously. I mean it. I'm getting lightheaded. I have tears in my eyes. What can I say? I get emotional. 
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Shane Warren on February 05, 2009, 07:05:22 PM
Putting this on the air will induce the thought that its a extreme sport and then we will have 3 week newbies jumping off their houses
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 05, 2009, 11:08:02 PM
Putting this on the air will induce the thought that its a extreme sport and then we will have 3 week newbies jumping off their houses

Did you bother to read anything
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: hillexallen on February 06, 2009, 12:25:47 PM
Why do you guys think that it is pk to have parkour competitions? Parkour and freerunning are both non-competitive!
Here are some things to think about:

1. Competition pushes people to do dangerous things that their bodies are not physically prepared for. The point of parkour is "to be and to last", and competition would completely contradict tyhat. Should we stay true to parkour, or change it into a more dangerous sport, where rivalries and hatred are encouraged?

2. The art of displacement, parkour, and freerunning are all non-competitive. The founders have said that many times. If there were to be a parkour competition, would it even qualify as parkour? I think not, and I don't think that companies should be able to use the name of our discipline to make money off of competitions aren't even about our discipline.

3. Do we want eyeryone to get into parkour? I don't. I think the reason that most traceurs are smart, kind people, is that only smart, kind people understand parkour. If we change parkour into something that everyone can understand and practice, we will have more negative people in our community.

I am really ashamed that traceurs would even THINK about p[romoting parkour competition. Non-competition is one of the most important parts of parkour!!!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: hillexallen on February 06, 2009, 12:41:06 PM
Parkour in the X-Games would definitely not help parkour, it would hurt it immensely.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: TR on February 06, 2009, 02:57:07 PM
Competition is just the next logical step for the growth of parkour.

How is it the next "logical" step? It's been stated over and over and over again. Parkour isn't against others. It's against yourself. To improve yourself, FOR yourself, not for some competition. If Parkour was made into a competition, I can just imagine these new competitive guys coming out to jams and being competitive with EVERYONE, challenging them to do this and that, etc. Oh sure, you can say we don't know what competition will bring, and you think it will ALL just be positive? And to come up with a possible scenario:

What if someone new to our "discipline" (Which would be gone by the way if competition was introduced. Parkour would just be another new sport). They go out and do things to see what they can do, how big they can go, rushing their training, etc. just for the next competition. It would only be damaging to those new "practitioners". Which would at the same time, give Parkour a bad name all over the place. Possibly getting Parkour banned in certain areas because of its new found recklessness and danger. Of course, this is just a "what if" scenario. I guess you can also assume this would never happen, just as I can assume it will.

People would get into parkour for the competition, not for the core values and benefits true Parkour brings. I think that's pretty much guaranteed right there if competition was introduced.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: hillexallen on February 06, 2009, 04:53:05 PM
Competition is just the next logical step for the growth of parkour.

How is it the next "logical" step? It's been stated over and over and over again. Parkour isn't against others. It's against yourself. To improve yourself, FOR yourself, not for some competition. If Parkour was made into a competition, I can just imagine these new competitive guys coming out to jams and being competitive with EVERYONE, challenging them to do this and that, etc. Oh sure, you can say we don't know what competition will bring, and you think it will ALL just be positive? And to come up with a possible scenario:

What if someone new to our "discipline" (Which would be gone by the way if competition was introduced. Parkour would just be another new sport). They go out and do things to see what they can do, how big they can go, rushing their training, etc. just for the next competition. It would only be damaging to those new "practitioners". Which would at the same time, give Parkour a bad name all over the place. Possibly getting Parkour banned in certain areas because of its new found recklessness and danger. Of course, this is just a "what if" scenario. I guess you can also assume this would never happen, just as I can assume it will.

People would get into parkour for the competition, not for the core values and benefits true Parkour brings. I think that's pretty much guaranteed right there if competition was introduced.

I agree!!! Parkour cannot be competitive!!!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Mathew C on February 06, 2009, 07:22:53 PM
Competition is inherent in parkour

Now take that finger off the caps lock  :P and listen to this

   As traceurs, we all strive for self-improvement, and to do so successfully in the long term, we have to be smart about it. This means we have to know our limits, and know how to gauge progress so that we neither hurt ourselves in haste nor grow stagnant, satisfied with maintenance. Our focus (in terms of the quantifiable goals we set) should be constant self-improvement about all else, and to the exclusion of all else.
   Now, what is competition? It is the defining attribute of a setting or situation in which the determined goal is to exceed, outdo, dominate (etc.) a peer in some demonstration of skill or ability. At first this seems to be complementary to the idea of self-improvement - after all, a little competition pushes us to try harder, right? Right (no sarcasm in case anyone reading this is confused). However, not all competition is beneficial to the parkour lifestyle - only smart competition.
   Competition against other people is very un-smart. Every body is different, so to set a standard for YOUR body based on what someone else's can do is nonsensical, and such a standard will almost never be exactly aligned with what your goals would be based on the criteria in paragraph 1. When, then, is competition complementary, and even essential to parkour?When you compete against yourself.

There is only one traceur you should ever strive to outdo: yourself two weeks ago.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 06, 2009, 07:25:10 PM
Competition is inherent in parkour

Now take that finger off the caps lock  :P and listen to this

   As traceurs, we all strive for self-improvement, and to do so successfully in the long term, we have to be smart about it. This means we have to know our limits, and know how to gauge progress so that we neither hurt ourselves in haste nor grow stagnant, satisfied with maintenance. Our focus (in terms of the quantifiable goals we set) should be constant self-improvement about all else, and to the exclusion of all else.
   Now, what is competition? It is the defining attribute of a setting or situation in which the determined goal is to exceed, outdo, dominate (etc.) a peer in some demonstration of skill or ability. At first this seems to be complementary to the idea of self-improvement - after all, a little competition pushes us to try harder, right? Right (no sarcasm in case anyone reading this is confused). However, not all competition is beneficial to the parkour lifestyle - only smart competition.
   Competition against other people is very un-smart. Every body is different, so to set a standard for YOUR body based on what someone else's can do is nonsensical, and such a standard will almost never be exactly aligned with what your goals would be based on the criteria in paragraph 1. When, then, is competition complementary, and even essential to parkour?When you compete against yourself.

There is only one traceur you should ever strive to outdo: yourself two weeks ago.

Ahh, thank you.  I am glad you agree with my point (and came to this conclusion by yourself!).
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Spencer B on February 06, 2009, 07:49:52 PM
I sense that a reference slash link to Blanes Dilution article is in this threads future... But just think about it... We already get our fair share of daredevils and dangerous (to themselves) n00bs, who never last in Parkour. Why? We are such a relatively small global community comprised of people who actually have discipline and the intelligence to know their limits, etc. that when somone who is just there for the kick of 'jumping of roofs' shows up, he is effectively corrected, and if not, is left to learn the lessons of physics and gravity the hard way.

However, if it becomes globally recognized then there will be more non-disciplined people getting in, and then the general perspective of Parkour would belong to majority. And voila, that's how it happens.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 06, 2009, 07:58:27 PM
Quote
However, if it becomes globally recognized then there will be more non-disciplined people getting in, and then the general perspective of Parkour would belong to majority. And voila, that's how it happens.
This is why I want to become a parkour instructor.  If someone were to learn parkour from the internet parkour's philosophy would deteriorate, but if taught from an individual the philosophy would hold true.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Mathew C on February 06, 2009, 08:28:54 PM
Quote
However, if it becomes globally recognized then there will be more non-disciplined people getting in, and then the general perspective of Parkour would belong to majority. And voila, that's how it happens.
This is why I want to become a parkour instructor.  If someone were to learn parkour from the internet parkour's philosophy would deteriorate, but if taught from an individual the philosophy would hold true.

Everything I learned (aside from 'understanding comes with times and experience' stuff) about parkour, I learned from the internet...
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Spencer B on February 07, 2009, 02:35:35 AM
Teaching the philosophy of it wouldn't work if the person just wanted to be competitive and a jerk about it. I learned E_V_E_R_Y_T_H_I_N_G I know about Parkour from the internet

It all ties back into my second post... It all[ depends on the person... Although virtually anybody who can or is a serious traceur tends to be more methodical, empathetic, cautious,... The people called wimps, or who are picked on their early years for there desire to know/learn, etc. We tend to be the misfits of the world, people who often have a different view of society as a whole, etc.

I'm going to stop talking now, before this becomes an incoherent rant, but I think you get the idea.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: bengaltiger on February 07, 2009, 06:42:18 AM
Parkour is being pulled closer and closer to being the next skateboarding. I believe we should fight this current.

I totally agree. If parkour goes in the x-games it will become way too popular, and more and more people will get into the fad until its not even a fad anymore, its a permanent thing and most of the new traceurs will just want to impress girls and not even participate in the other great aspects of this art form. For example, this website. They will either act like cocky jerks on here, or they will ignore parkour communities altogether. It would be complete and utter chaos. If anybody wants that kind of future for parkour then your reason is beyond me and maybe, just maybe, you're the kind of person we're trying to prevent from ruining parkour.

NO PARKOUR IN THE X-GAMES!!!!!!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 07, 2009, 08:00:06 AM
Teaching the philosophy of it wouldn't work if the person just wanted to be competitive and a jerk about it. I learned E_V_E_R_Y_T_H_I_N_G I know about Parkour from the internet

It all ties back into my second post... It all[ depends on the person... Although virtually anybody who can or is a serious traceur tends to be more methodical, empathetic, cautious,... The people called wimps, or who are picked on their early years for there desire to know/learn, etc. We tend to be the misfits of the world, people who often have a different view of society as a whole, etc.

I'm going to stop talking now, before this becomes an incoherent rant, but I think you get the idea.

I understand.  But I'm simply saying that the internet isn't the best place to learn parkour.  It took me a year to fully understand most of the philosophy.  When someone learns over the internet there is no stopping them from learning a roll and going off of a huge drop and rolling improperly.  There was nothing to stop them from doing so.  That's why you see all these kids totally misunderstanding parkour.  I'd say APK does have an excellent parkour community, but I've seen communities that are absolutely despicable.  We learned from the internet and turned out just fine.  Even still I'm going to learn from PKGen and Majestic Force so that I can instruct people.  The age of learning from the internet will be over soon.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Stephanie Belle Hagan on February 07, 2009, 10:40:25 AM
I learned everything I know about parkour from the internet, as well. Granted I found a few traceurs close to home that I trained with for awhile, but for the most part, my lessons were learned from good 'ol APK.  ;)

There are times that I wish that I could rewind time, go back before I had even heard of parkour, and learn parkour from a traceur in 'the real world' instead of the internet. I wonder how I would be different today, what skill level I would be at, where I would stand in the parkour society, etc...  It's something to think about.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Spencer B on February 07, 2009, 05:15:36 PM
Teaching the philosophy of it wouldn't work if the person just wanted to be competitive and a jerk about it. I learned E_V_E_R_Y_T_H_I_N_G I know about Parkour from the internet

It all ties back into my second post... It all[ depends on the person... Although virtually anybody who can or is a serious traceur tends to be more methodical, empathetic, cautious,... The people called wimps, or who are picked on their early years for there desire to know/learn, etc. We tend to be the misfits of the world, people who often have a different view of society as a whole, etc.

I'm going to stop talking now, before this becomes an incoherent rant, but I think you get the idea.

I understand.  But I'm simply saying that the internet isn't the best place to learn parkour.  It took me a year to fully understand most of the philosophy.  When someone learns over the internet there is no stopping them from learning a roll and going off of a huge drop and rolling improperly.  There was nothing to stop them from doing so.  That's why you see all these kids totally misunderstanding parkour.  I'd say APK does have an excellent parkour community, but I've seen communities that are absolutely despicable.  We learned from the internet and turned out just fine.  Even still I'm going to learn from PKGen and Majestic Force so that I can instruct people.  The age of learning from the internet will be over soon.

Okay, you are missing something completely... If you were teaching a traceur in real life and he wanted to go jump off a third story building, simply because he though he was big and bad simply 'cause he knew how to roll, then how would you stop him? Physically? Would to resort to violence if he just wouldn't listen to reason? Or would let him hurt himself, and let him that way?

If someone is reasonable and intelligent and they can be talked down fairly easily, but if they are the type of person that we want to keep out of parkour, then they WON'T listen and will do it anyway, with or without somebody actually being there.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 07, 2009, 06:24:23 PM
Teaching the philosophy of it wouldn't work if the person just wanted to be competitive and a jerk about it. I learned E_V_E_R_Y_T_H_I_N_G I know about Parkour from the internet

It all ties back into my second post... It all[ depends on the person... Although virtually anybody who can or is a serious traceur tends to be more methodical, empathetic, cautious,... The people called wimps, or who are picked on their early years for there desire to know/learn, etc. We tend to be the misfits of the world, people who often have a different view of society as a whole, etc.

I'm going to stop talking now, before this becomes an incoherent rant, but I think you get the idea.

I understand.  But I'm simply saying that the internet isn't the best place to learn parkour.  It took me a year to fully understand most of the philosophy.  When someone learns over the internet there is no stopping them from learning a roll and going off of a huge drop and rolling improperly.  There was nothing to stop them from doing so.  That's why you see all these kids totally misunderstanding parkour.  I'd say APK does have an excellent parkour community, but I've seen communities that are absolutely despicable.  We learned from the internet and turned out just fine.  Even still I'm going to learn from PKGen and Majestic Force so that I can instruct people.  The age of learning from the internet will be over soon.

Okay, you are missing something completely... If you were teaching a traceur in real life and he wanted to go jump off a third story building, simply because he though he was big and bad simply 'cause he knew how to roll, then how would you stop him? Physically? Would to resort to violence if he just wouldn't listen to reason? Or would let him hurt himself, and let him that way?

If someone is reasonable and intelligent and they can be talked down fairly easily, but if they are the type of person that we want to keep out of parkour, then they WON'T listen and will do it anyway, with or without somebody actually being there.

You misunderstand.  He wouldn't disregard what we tell him, he wouldn't have known in the first place on what not to do.  When instructed personally you can cover the subject completely, so he would know not to take drops.  He would know that by taking large drops without much training he would be looked down in the parkour community as opposed to what the logical assumption to be which is looked up to.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Tim LaVere on February 07, 2009, 07:01:02 PM
You guys are thinking to hard into this. Just as Sebatien Foucan states there is no wrong or right way to do freerunning. Its your own way your own choice. If you chose to do competition than thats your choice and other practioners of freerunning/parkour should be supportive. But if you do choose to do compition than just keep in mind why your doing it. Dont do it for glory or popularity, do it to make yourself better. You may win a metal or somthing, just dont let it get to your head. That is my thought on it. besides as someone said above compition drives us make sure its driving you in the right direction.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Shae Perkins on February 07, 2009, 08:36:40 PM
These threads are really getting old...
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on February 08, 2009, 08:21:45 PM
Instead of spectating about ruining parkour in overconpetitive games why dont you get youre local group of Traceurs and play a friendly nice game of roof ball. God I love parkour roof ball. ;D
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alec Furtado on February 08, 2009, 10:11:52 PM
All of this is dependent on one psychological assumption that the majority of people that will see the competition (I think we are picturing something like Barclaycard?) will get and stay into it "for the chicks/thrills."

One, I doubt anything as crappy as Barclaycard would survive as an X-Game, if the producers even allow it in the first place. If anything, it would need to be a Ninja Warrior style obstacle course challenge.

Two, I doubt any amount of money and funding by any corporation could outweigh and supplant American Parkour, PkGen, etc. unless they actually brought down the servers. Anybody who actually cares to get into it and doesn't just try to jump over a table and then go back to whatever else they were doing will come to us. I'm not too worried.



Yes, a Parkour Competition really does not work, but there is competition in parkour. Well, there can be. Case in point, how the entire thing started with DB, Seb, and his friends challenging each other to do things. It's about the individual but competition is a GREAT tool to motivate improvement. It gives you a reference point to push yourself further. It creates an extra challenge. The goal is to beat the other guy with the purpose of improving yourself. That's why a good training partner is also a good friend that will look out for you and help make sure you keep working hard, challenging you, providing an aspect of competition. So please don't absolutely condemn competition... it can be a good thing.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Pave_the_Planet on February 08, 2009, 11:02:42 PM
I'm sure this has been said a bunch before, but I am really against pk being in some sort of "extreme sport" competition. Firstly, because the extreme sports types are a bunch of jocks, and they would ruin pk. And second, because I feel it goes against the spirit of pk to make it into a competition and add a scoring system.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Paul Leon Mederos on February 09, 2009, 07:34:07 AM
People make far too many stereotypes. Not all extreme sport "types" are jocks, not all traceurs who compete are jerks, not all traceurs who train properly are disciplined and respectful, etc etc.

Media perpetuates these false truths and they spread like wildfire.

Competition can be horribly done, or it can be a beautiful thing - all dependent on the mindset of the individuals involved. I think the most fun I've ever had in a competition was a rock climbing competition, where everyone was really supportive of each other and we all pushed ourselves to do really awesome things. Of course, we all pushed for safety but that's because we all normally train with safety in our daily lives. At the same time, I'm seen some disgusting competitions where the only issue was who will win! Needless to say, the participants in those competitions were no people I would enjoy friendship with.

Going back to the X-Games reference, I wish I could hang out with the likes of Tony Hawk, Bob Burnquist, Danny Way, Shaun White, etc. They're all probably a bunch of awesome guys - do you think they perpetuate the notion that skateboarders are all punk kids that love disrespecting people? NO! These people fight to give skating a proper name, just like we all struggle to keep parkour in as brilliant a light as possible. If a parkour competition was done right (I enjoy the idea of a ninja warrior type competition!) and it had the right competitors (once again, I'd love to be a part of it :) ) then it could be a huge push towards stabilizing parkour as a deep discipline and art form, not just a sport where crazy kids jump off things  :P

Please share your comments/concerns about my opinion, I'd love to hear them all!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 09, 2009, 09:39:41 AM
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/thedes2003/anticompetitionsig.jpg)

'Nuff Said.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: hillexallen on February 09, 2009, 11:37:47 AM
Parkour is by definition non-competitive, because that's how David Belle created it. So, if there were parkour in the X-Games it wouldn't even be parkour, technically!

We can't let companies take over parkour! They have no right to use the name of our discipline to make money off of competitions while giving us a bad reputation, the same reputation that skateboarders were given by the same companies!

Who is with me? Fight competition, fight commercialization!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 09, 2009, 11:59:14 AM
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/thedes2003/anticompetitionsig.jpg)

'Nuff Said.

You're a tool.  Either contribute to the meaningful discussion taking place or keep your childish posts to yourself.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: danhezee on February 09, 2009, 12:17:26 PM

You're a tool.  Either contribute to the meaningful discussion taking place or keep your childish posts to yourself.

 :P I think most of the users on this site are kids.   
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 09, 2009, 12:50:58 PM
There's really no need to act like that just because you disagree, Sat. You seem to get very defensive when someone disagrees which will make this topic fly out of hand. Hopefully it will stop going in circles soon and it will be ignored.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Nate J. on February 09, 2009, 01:33:41 PM
I agree with LeoNn. When it is done right competition is kickass in every way. It would raise awareness in a positive way, bring people together, and a good competition is always fun for practically everyone. I have only ever competed(seriously) in bouldering comps but they have been some of the most fun bouldering experiences I have had for a few reasons. 1)Everything is usually new, the hosting gym cleans the walls and puts up new climbs that are usually excellent quality.2) Everybody comes together, usually when I climb there are a couple people I know there but aty comps everyone is there at the same time. 3)Comps really ramp up the intensity. Wouldn't you like to play on obstacles specially designed to be really fun and challenging? I think that ultimately it comes down to the people involved, the competitors and the organizers.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 09, 2009, 01:56:53 PM
I'm perfectly ok with a ninja warrior type competition.  So long as you're not racing anyone but yourself.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 09, 2009, 02:54:48 PM
There's really no need to act like that just because you disagree, Sat. You seem to get very defensive when someone disagrees which will make this topic fly out of hand. Hopefully it will stop going in circles soon and it will be ignored.

Haha if I did that every time somebody disagreed there would be a lot more angry posts here.  Maybe you didn't take into account the fact that I said that because he isn't saying anything new, interesting, helpful, insightful, or even useful in anyway.  All he is doing is undermining the people who have actually taken the time to type out arguments that require more than copy and paste.  I'm not even against other peoples opinions being posted, sure I might not like them very much or agree with them, but I'm not going to tell them to stop posting. 
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Terry McIntosh on February 09, 2009, 07:33:30 PM
sat, man, chill. You know, im one of the people who actually agree with you concerning your views on comps, but you really do need to relax. be cool man  8)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on February 09, 2009, 07:36:38 PM
yes its kind of freaking me out how calous you get sometimes. You do have some great points though. :)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 09, 2009, 10:33:32 PM
Its dumb of me to get so worked out since I know that most people won't change their views so I'm just gonna respond to fewer posts now.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Stephanie Belle Hagan on February 10, 2009, 05:32:39 AM
No, Sat! I personally think that you're posts are constructive, and you have really good points that I would not have even thought of. Post, man, post! But, like Terry said, stay cool.  8)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: hillexallen on February 10, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
I think that adding the image to our signatures would be a GREAT way to combat competition and commercialization in parkour!

Don't worry about Sat. He can make a fool of himself if he wishes, but we don't need to point it out to others. ;)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Terry McIntosh on February 10, 2009, 10:05:18 AM
I think that adding the image to our signatures would be a GREAT way to combat competition and commercialization in parkour!

Don't worry about Sat. He can make a fool of himself if he wishes, but we don't need to point it out to others. ;)

the signature thing has been going on forever. feel free to add it to yours if you wish. i think sat brings up good points, especially regarding views of "jocks" and the training needed to truely be great at pk. he seems ( and this is from my reading of his post, and its hard to tell true tone from text) to be a little short with people. i don't think that makes him a fool. we should prolly all watch the " name calling" here. after all, you never know who you will come face to face with at the next big jam.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Tim LaVere on February 10, 2009, 10:48:36 AM
leonn has the right idea, besides if you asked sebastien foucan wether or not to do comps he would say if it is your way or somthing along that line, its your choice just make sure its really what you want and remember that through out life. also dont do it to be popular or coool do it to learn and get better.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Milquetoast on February 12, 2009, 08:08:22 AM
Traditionally in the Martial Arts world, when some but not all of the students want to change how things have always been taught, there are usually only two possible outcomes:

1. Both groups claim true lineage, with the splinter group usually claiming that the master taught them the new way in secret.  Everyone is confused.  See Wing Chun's history for an example of this.

2. The splinter group (and sometimes even the traditional group) changes the name of their style to differentiate themselves.  Everyone is less confused.  The name change is usually not VERY significant, so as to show a common lineage.  See the various Tai Chi styles' histories for an example of this.

So for the proponents of Parkour competition, would you be okay with not calling it Parkour?  For those against Parkour competition, would you have any problems with a competition if it wasn't just called a "Parkour Competition"?  Say, if it was called "Sport Parkour", "Competitive Parkour" or "Parcouring"?
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: hillexallen on February 12, 2009, 11:04:10 AM
I would be fine with it as long as the name doesn't sound like "parkour". That could make the public confused between the two, and possibly give us a bad reputation. They could also not claim any association with David, Sebastien, or Yamakasi, or anyone who practices real parkour.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Greg Davis on February 13, 2009, 05:54:36 AM
I agree give it another name and I'm set. Everyone would be happy... why does it have to be labeled Parkour?
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 16, 2009, 09:17:34 AM
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/thedes2003/anticompetitionsig.jpg)

'Nuff Said.

You're a tool.  Either contribute to the meaningful discussion taking place or keep your childish posts to yourself.

LOL! I was just in a rush because I had to get on the bus home from highschool! Sorry if I offended you at all, I'm usually one to make more insightful posts, but APK isn't really my primary forum. When it comes down to it, a competition will have to be named differently, for it is not Parkour or freerunning for that matter. But the bad part is that this will cause even further division if a competition will be known to the likes of the X Games. IDK, can't we all just get along? ;)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 16, 2009, 09:18:27 AM
And no, I'm not a child, I'm 16 :P lol
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 16, 2009, 01:20:15 PM
Oh here's an idea.  Instead of calling it parkour, why don't you just call it building jumping?  Because without the philosophy that's all it will really be.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: FastGuppy on February 16, 2009, 01:39:04 PM
tricking or freerunning would be the right name. Parkour it point a-b. You could have a pakour race.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Broc on February 16, 2009, 02:25:01 PM
parkour will be ruined just like every other thing that has become commericialized

i mean i got interested in parkour because not a huge percentage of people practice it
i just think if everyone practiced parkour then i wouldn't really be different anymore
i mean sure some people would have higher skill levels than others but if everyone did it, i just don't think it would be that special to me anymore

furthermore, people will probably come up with even more different "types" of parkour like freerunning and tricking. eventually, there would be even more debate whether this is actually parkour and it will only branch out from there and become so refined, until it is completely ruined and people practicing it don't even know who david belle or sebastian foucan is...

and in the end, the spirit of parkour will be completely destroyed once it is deemed an "extreme sport" and added to the x-games lineup  :'(


Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 17, 2009, 05:43:10 AM
parkour will be ruined just like every other thing that has become commericialized

i mean i got interested in parkour because not a huge percentage of people practice it
i just think if everyone practiced parkour then i wouldn't really be different anymore
i mean sure some people would have higher skill levels than others but if everyone did it, i just don't think it would be that special to me anymore

furthermore, people will probably come up with even more different "types" of parkour like freerunning and tricking. eventually, there would be even more debate whether this is actually parkour and it will only branch out from there and become so refined, until it is completely ruined and people practicing it don't even know who david belle or sebastian foucan is...

and in the end, the spirit of parkour will be completely destroyed once it is deemed an "extreme sport" and added to the x-games lineup  :'(




Your exactly right. Competition puts a cloud over what the real intentions for these activities are. We do not train to win a competition, we train "To be and to last", and "To be strong to be useful"! Parkour, Free running, and many other activities are being practiced all for the wrong reasons. This controversy is all too common for me because I also skateboard. I've been skateboarding since about 3rd grade (Now in 11th) and the last thing I ever thought about was competing. The worst part is that now this is all the skating is about to the general mass, and they base your skill by how many different variations of a flip you can do! This is why I transitioned into long boarding and riding retro decks, because there is no push to be better than others, only yourself.

I think the idea of being a non competitive discipline should stick and if there is competition, they should go about using a new name. I know that Asics had a "Parcouring Championship" by the way...


Peace and love,

David ;)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 17, 2009, 11:49:28 AM
Quote
parkour will be ruined just like every other thing that has become commericialized

i mean i got interested in parkour because not a huge percentage of people practice it
i just think if everyone practiced parkour then i wouldn't really be different anymore
i mean sure some people would have higher skill levels than others but if everyone did it, i just don't think it would be that special to me anymore

furthermore, people will probably come up with even more different "types" of parkour like freerunning and tricking. eventually, there would be even more debate whether this is actually parkour and it will only branch out from there and become so refined, until it is completely ruined and people practicing it don't even know who david belle or sebastian foucan is...

and in the end, the spirit of parkour will be completely destroyed once it is deemed an "extreme sport" and added to the x-games lineup  :'(




Your exactly right. Competition puts a cloud over what the real intentions for these activities are. We do not train to win a competition, we train "To be and to last", and "To be strong to be useful"! Parkour, Free running, and many other activities are being practiced all for the wrong reasons. This controversy is all too common for me because I also skateboard. I've been skateboarding since about 3rd grade (Now in 11th) and the last thing I ever thought about was competing. The worst part is that now this is all the skating is about to the general mass, and they base your skill by how many different variations of a flip you can do! This is why I transitioned into long boarding and riding retro decks, because there is no push to be better than others, only yourself.

I think the idea of being a non competitive discipline should stick and if there is competition, they should go about using a new name. I know that Asics had a "Parcouring Championship" by the way...


Peace and love,

David ;)


I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 17, 2009, 12:19:21 PM
Well Parkour is also widely known (In the community of traceurs) to be a non-competitive discipline. I was also just providing examples of what competitions like this being started can do. Idk if you are seriously confused or trying to make a fool of me. ???
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 17, 2009, 12:25:35 PM
BTW if you really want competition, here you go.... Asics Parcouring World Championships (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPJmK2Wfuak)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 17, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alec Furtado on February 17, 2009, 03:24:24 PM
tricking or freerunning would be the right name. Parkour it point a-b. You could have a pakour race.
Yea, exactly. There doesn't need to be a new name. If it's a tricking competition, then call it a tricking competition. If it's an obstacle course competition, call it Ninja Warrior :P
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Broc on February 17, 2009, 03:27:14 PM
Quote
parkour will be ruined just like every other thing that has become commericialized

i mean i got interested in parkour because not a huge percentage of people practice it
i just think if everyone practiced parkour then i wouldn't really be different anymore
i mean sure some people would have higher skill levels than others but if everyone did it, i just don't think it would be that special to me anymore

furthermore, people will probably come up with even more different "types" of parkour like freerunning and tricking. eventually, there would be even more debate whether this is actually parkour and it will only branch out from there and become so refined, until it is completely ruined and people practicing it don't even know who david belle or sebastian foucan is...

and in the end, the spirit of parkour will be completely destroyed once it is deemed an "extreme sport" and added to the x-games lineup  :'(




Your exactly right. Competition puts a cloud over what the real intentions for these activities are. We do not train to win a competition, we train "To be and to last", and "To be strong to be useful"! Parkour, Free running, and many other activities are being practiced all for the wrong reasons. This controversy is all too common for me because I also skateboard. I've been skateboarding since about 3rd grade (Now in 11th) and the last thing I ever thought about was competing. The worst part is that now this is all the skating is about to the general mass, and they base your skill by how many different variations of a flip you can do! This is why I transitioned into long boarding and riding retro decks, because there is no push to be better than others, only yourself.

I think the idea of being a non competitive discipline should stick and if there is competition, they should go about using a new name. I know that Asics had a "Parcouring Championship" by the way...


Peace and love,

David ;)


I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.
Sure it is...when your not being competative about it...

i think parkour becoming competative is inevitable but in my opinion its immoral to the sport and what david belle created it to be. i was just giving examples on what will happen once it does become competative...

didn't mean to spark all this conflict between people(i've noticed sat just jumps on something he doesn't believe is right)...don't get all worked up cause its not what you believe...i respect your opinion i'm just voicing mine  ;)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 17, 2009, 05:58:16 PM
I second that all the way.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Ryan Nicolai on February 17, 2009, 06:25:06 PM
didn't mean to spark all this conflict between people(i've noticed sat just jumps on something he doesn't believe is right)...don't get all worked up cause its not what you believe...i respect your opinion i'm just voicing mine  ;)

Boo, just boo. -1. I personally have almost no problem with Sat. He gives this place that edge where you can't just sit on your hands and say that you think this or that. He pushes you back... ok, maybe he punches you in the face. Anyways, he forces people to go on the offense and say why they think that. Everybody just wants to fill justified in their opinions and don't actually care for a different opinion. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 17, 2009, 07:13:35 PM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Milquetoast on February 17, 2009, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

I really don't agree with that, Sat.  My competition is only with myself.  While I am often inspired by (the oh so many) others who can do things I cannot, I really never have an urge to outdo them but only to be able to do more myself.

Having said that, however, I actually support organized Parkour-esq competition.  I think it'll be great entertainment and should help inspire others.  I just feel that we should respect the founder of Parkour by changing the name.  And it doesn't have to be drastically different -- afterall, this will be a sport born of (traditional) Parkour and it will be important to pay homage to its roots.  While it would kind of suck for a sport this young to have yet another split, it kind of is the inevitable result when the founder is both so dogmatic and so reclusive...
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Broc on February 17, 2009, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER. 

The desire to be better than each other? Really?
I thought it was the desire to be better than yourself?!
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Broc on February 17, 2009, 08:56:35 PM
didn't mean to spark all this conflict between people(i've noticed sat just jumps on something he doesn't believe is right)...don't get all worked up cause its not what you believe...i respect your opinion i'm just voicing mine  ;)

Boo, just boo. -1. I personally have almost no problem with Sat. He gives this place that edge where you can't just sit on your hands and say that you think this or that. He pushes you back... ok, maybe he punches you in the face. Anyways, he forces people to go on the offense and say why they think that. Everybody just wants to fill justified in their opinions and don't actually care for a different opinion. Just my opinion.

alright i can agree that you should explain why you believe something but i don't feel that he has or should have the power to call someone a tool...and did i not say that i respect others opinions?
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 17, 2009, 09:03:26 PM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?



Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

I really don't agree with that, Sat.  My competition is only with myself.  While I am often inspired by (the oh so many) others who can do things I cannot, I really never have an urge to outdo them but only to be able to do more myself.

Having said that, however, I actually support organized Parkour-esq competition.  I think it'll be great entertainment and should help inspire others.  I just feel that we should respect the founder of Parkour by changing the name.  And it doesn't have to be drastically different -- afterall, this will be a sport born of (traditional) Parkour and it will be important to pay homage to its roots.  While it would kind of suck for a sport this young to have yet another split, it kind of is the inevitable result when the founder is both so dogmatic and so reclusive...

I don't really know if he's that dogmatic.  (change of subject not directed at you)  I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what David Belle's philosophy is and what parkour is about.  David Belle started parkour for his reason of being strong to be useful etc... He didn't, in my opinion, mean for parkour to have some deep philosophy to it that people would start following like a religion.  That was just his path.  My evidence for this is the fact that David really doesn't give a shit about parkour.  He just sort of does it and whatever other people want to do is fine by him.  

Back to your post.  Again I really don't agree with the "I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other."  I believe that it is about being better than other people because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get away from the rapist chasing you, or you being able to catch the guy that just stole something.  
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Milquetoast on February 17, 2009, 11:07:34 PM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?



Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

I really don't agree with that, Sat.  My competition is only with myself.  While I am often inspired by (the oh so many) others who can do things I cannot, I really never have an urge to outdo them but only to be able to do more myself.

Having said that, however, I actually support organized Parkour-esq competition.  I think it'll be great entertainment and should help inspire others.  I just feel that we should respect the founder of Parkour by changing the name.  And it doesn't have to be drastically different -- afterall, this will be a sport born of (traditional) Parkour and it will be important to pay homage to its roots.  While it would kind of suck for a sport this young to have yet another split, it kind of is the inevitable result when the founder is both so dogmatic and so reclusive...

I don't really know if he's that dogmatic.  (change of subject not directed at you)  I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what David Belle's philosophy is and what parkour is about.  David Belle started parkour for his reason of being strong to be useful etc... He didn't, in my opinion, mean for parkour to have some deep philosophy to it that people would start following like a religion.  That was just his path.  My evidence for this is the fact that David really doesn't give a shit about parkour.  He just sort of does it and whatever other people want to do is fine by him.  

Back to your post.  Again I really don't agree with the "I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other."  I believe that it is about being better than other people because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get away from the rapist chasing you, or you being able to catch the guy that just stole something.  

I don't know what DB is really thinking, either.  I just assumed he had a desire to keep Parkour "pure" based on the very limited interviews of him.

But competing with a rapist or a thief is not the same as competing with a fellow traceur, right?  Assuming all traceurs and traceuses are more-or-less true to the philosophy, the only metric that matters is how many situations they themselves can get out of.  It doesn't matter if you're faster than another traceur in a competition, it only matters if you're fast enough when the emergency situation presents itself.  Even if you're faster than every other traceur in a competition, you still need to get faster because you just might run into a situation that will require more speed.

I guess what I'm saying is that, from my understanding, the goals of competition and the fundamental goals of Parkour are different.  In a competition, the goal is to beat everyone else.  Once you've beat everyone else, you're done.  There's nothing left to do unless someone else beats your time.  On the other hand, when training (the current version of) Parkour, you're only done when you fail to get out of a situation and pay with your life.  You always need to train yourself to get stronger and faster because every bit will increase your chances of surviving yet another emergency situation.

Btw, I'm not saying that I'm training myself day-in, day-out to increase my chances of surviving a fantastical situation.  I just do it because it's fun and I like to be able to do cool stuff (I guess I'm more of a freerunner than a traceur).  But, from all the articles and interviews I've read, this is what I've gathered about Parkour philosophy.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 18, 2009, 04:27:33 AM
Quote from: Sat Santokh
I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

You bring up an excellent point.  In a real situation it could be person vs. environment vs. person.  But that type of competition has drastic consequences if you fail.  And strong is a relevant word, so yes we do compare ourselves to others in that respect.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on February 18, 2009, 06:07:21 AM
Okay we all know that parkour wasnt developed as a sport or something competitive. Lets look at how competition would affect the Parkour Community. First of all the xgames competetors. They would now be celebs. In the eyes of other Traceurs they would become "idols" instead of fellow Traceurs. Second of all Rivalry. Xgames parkour comps would trickle down to have minor comps. Competition always comes with rivalry and this would greatly affect the community. Third the TRaceurs that dont want competition would be cought up in all of it and parkour wouldnt be the same for them. Lastly the art. Parkour would be swept up in commercialism extremely fast. Basicy Parkour would indefinetly become the next skatebaording if it became an Xgame. I think we need to protect Parkour values and community. I cant think of another sport that has a community as close as the Parkour community. THis is many Traceurs favorite thing about Parkour. I dont want to see the community chopped up into teams and idols and commercialsim. THis is just my opinion though but I still want to see parkours values preserved.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 18, 2009, 06:54:04 AM
Okay we all know that parkour wasnt developed as a sport or something competitive. Lets look at how competition would affect the Parkour Community. First of all the xgames competetors. They would now be celebs. In the eyes of other Traceurs they would become "idols" instead of fellow Traceurs. Second of all Rivalry. Xgames parkour comps would trickle down to have minor comps. Competition always comes with rivalry and this would greatly affect the community. Third the TRaceurs that dont want competition would be cought up in all of it and parkour wouldnt be the same for them. Lastly the art. Parkour would be swept up in commercialism extremely fast. Basicy Parkour would indefinetly become the next skatebaording if it became an Xgame. I think we need to protect Parkour values and community. I cant think of another sport that has a community as close as the Parkour community. THis is many Traceurs favorite thing about Parkour. I dont want to see the community chopped up into teams and idols and commercialsim. THis is just my opinion though but I still want to see parkours values preserved.

I have to go to class so this will be brief.  Your point about celebs.  Celebs or role models?  These already exist in the parkour community to a huge extent.  Your saying you don't "idolize" any other traceur even a little bit?  We'll use an example, almost everyone in America looks up to Levi right?  How would this change anything with competition?  Explain how the competition would greatly affect the community don't just state it.  Third) How would the traceurs that don't want competition be caught up in it?  They just don't compete and they keep training in their own little world.  The art) Parkour is 1) already commercialized 2) is only going to be more commercialized with or without competition 3) Thats not necessarily always a bad thing.  I can think of a community as close as the parkour community and you can see it every summer in august.  The X-games.  The guys that they are competing against are all their best friends.  They are so nice and encouraging to each other.  I have never ever seen anybody say oh I hope he falls and I win.  It's always about how much respect they have for the guy that just came in below them.  90% of people practicing parkour won't ever be on a team so I don't see how the community would be chopped into teams and idols and commercialism.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: TR on February 18, 2009, 01:18:45 PM
Competition is inherent in parkour

Now take that finger off the caps lock  :P and listen to this

   As traceurs, we all strive for self-improvement, and to do so successfully in the long term, we have to be smart about it. This means we have to know our limits, and know how to gauge progress so that we neither hurt ourselves in haste nor grow stagnant, satisfied with maintenance. Our focus (in terms of the quantifiable goals we set) should be constant self-improvement about all else, and to the exclusion of all else.
   Now, what is competition? It is the defining attribute of a setting or situation in which the determined goal is to exceed, outdo, dominate (etc.) a peer in some demonstration of skill or ability. At first this seems to be complementary to the idea of self-improvement - after all, a little competition pushes us to try harder, right? Right (no sarcasm in case anyone reading this is confused). However, not all competition is beneficial to the parkour lifestyle - only smart competition.
   Competition against other people is very un-smart. Every body is different, so to set a standard for YOUR body based on what someone else's can do is nonsensical, and such a standard will almost never be exactly aligned with what your goals would be based on the criteria in paragraph 1. When, then, is competition complementary, and even essential to parkour?When you compete against yourself.

There is only one traceur you should ever strive to outdo: yourself two weeks ago.

Um... I think it's very obvious that Parkour is a very self driven thing, and that you are always looking to better yourself.

Competition in general terms means: one person vs others or whatever variation you may want..

If your case that competition is against yourself, which should be the first thing any Traceur learns, then there would be no point for an actual competition where people compete against each other for some title, reward, or recognition is completely unnecessary.

Besides, we are talking about the X-Games here, of course it's going to be against each other. How would you have a competition where you compete against yourself? They have a pre-made course and you do it a couple times trying to beat your best time? Talk about boring. Even then, it would be the same course where internally people want to have the best time and beat others.

As I already said, introducing competition, people will get into Parkour for the wrong reasons, they won't care about the values of Parkour, they will only strive to be the best for the competition for whatever the out-come may bring.

Sorry, I don't think competition(one vs. another) is ever worth trying to set up for Parkour, and even freerunning for that matter. Competition(vs yourself) ... self explanatory, there's no need for an event.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 18, 2009, 02:44:48 PM
You guys all need to realize something.  Competition has already happened, and will only continue to grow.  Instead of bitching about how competition is bad do something constructive so that it won't be bad.  There's literally almost nothing you small group of people can do besides not compete, which I'm guessing most of you wouldn't be able to do anyway (not that i can either).  So seriously why don't you guys think of some productive and constructive input that you think will help parkour/free running competitions not be the absolute worst case scenario that you all seem to think is automatically going to happen. 
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 18, 2009, 05:58:57 PM
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/thedes2003/anticompetitionsig.jpg)

'Nuff Said.

There was no bitching until you called me a "Tool" for putting this up. The whole reason I put that up is because it's a way to show how the masses of traceurs think that competition is wrong, with no bitching in there whatsoever. So either way for me it's a lose lose situation because you either blow me off as a "Tool" and tell me to put some note worthy stuff up, and then tell me that I'm bitching (<And should stop) when I listened to your first piece of advice.

~David
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 18, 2009, 06:31:05 PM
I wasn't calling you a tool because you put that up.  I was calling you a tool because that's all you put up, you just said "nuff said."  Which in my opinion is rude when people are putting up paragraphs about what felt.  I thought I read later that you were in a rush so i had forgotten about it at that point.  So in conclusion: I thought it was rude that you didn't say anything, you just posted something almost everyone has seen and is old news.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on February 19, 2009, 04:20:22 AM
My conclusion:
Competition exists in parkour, and will always exist.  Staged competition against each other should not exist.  Turning parkour into a "sport" would dilute the purpose and eventually, over a long period of time, change it into something it was never meant to be.  We are the forerunners of parkour.  We must ensure the safety of the philosophy of parkour.
The only type of competition that could exist is a ninja warrior competition.  While we will look at other traceurs and say, "He is better than me," or, "He can improve that," it is important to remember we train to: a) better ourselves by "seeking perfection" and b) help others.

To prove my point about the dilution.  Look at the Olympics as it was, and look at it now.  Before, cheating would get you killed, and was a serious offense.  The Olympics stood for the achievements of the human body.  Now... Now all people care about is the gold.  Even still, the athletes are willing to cheat to win, taking enhancing drugs to improve their ability.  And the media has turned it into a huge publicity event.  No more do the Olympics stand for what they did.  Michael Phelps, someone I thought could represent the achievement of the human body, has disgraced the true Olympics.  Though the world around him may admonish his punishment and accept his apology, the ancient Greeks would have him put to death.  And Russia and Georgia violated the sacred Olympic Treaty - a treaty taken all too lightly today, for no one seems to enforce it as the Spartans once did.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Milquetoast on February 19, 2009, 07:29:52 AM
Michael Phelps, someone I thought could represent the achievement of the human body, has disgraced the true Olympics.  Though the world around him may admonish his punishment and accept his apology, the ancient Greeks would have him put to death.

Wait...  What?  Since when did marijuana become a performance enhancing drug?!  And it's not like he was smoking while training to give him an edge...  If he did, he would never have won anything!  What are you going to rail against next?  Caffeine?  Alcohol?  Let's not get too carried away with YOUR local customs and YOUR local laws and attempt to force-feed them to everyone else...
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on February 19, 2009, 07:56:14 AM
Michael Phelps disgraced the olympics by having super short legs and an abnormally long torso, the greeks would have put him to death for that too.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Paul Leon Mederos on February 19, 2009, 08:58:30 AM
Instead of railing this towards and off topic discussion on how Phelps smoked pot and how it does/doesn't affect the rest of the world, let's go back to the topic at hand: competition.

Over the past 5 years I've heard pretty much every argument for competition and against competition. I've witnessed some blind people following either side simply because someone they look up to holds beliefs on either side. What people have to realize is that there will never be an absolute of either side, it will always be a blend and it will always sway from one side to another. There will never be a a time when parkour is dominated by competition and there will never be a time when parkour is competition free.

I used the word "belief" because that's simply all it is - you guys are treating this like it's a religion, God exists vs god doesn't exist is the same as Parkour is competitive bs parkour is not competitive. Parkour is still in its' infancy because it will always be in it's infancy, the very act of restricting parkour to certain movements instantly turns that into NOT parkour. It's a difficult thing to explain because it's subjective.

If David Belle were to come out and say Parkour is jumping rooftops, what would your reactions be? "He's crazy, thats not parkour, WTF!!, Oooo I always thought it was building jumping, NO WAY PARKOUR IS SAFETY!" etc etc. But he has the authority, no? What if all the Yamakasi, Sebastien, UF, Tribe, PKGen, etc were all to say the same thing? Outrageous huh? How many of you would be content walking away and doing your own movement, and how many of you would be pissed that Parkour is defiled and try very hard to get the name back to it's "prestige"? Who would be rightfully practicing "Parkour", the masses of traceurs or the 'authority figures'?

What I'm getting at is that parkour is a fluid construct. You can only partially define it on a large scale. The other part is free to move around and change, and it WILL move around and change, especially within the individual. So instead of creating this artificial barrier in the community, why not bond together and try to make both work? Why can't the competitive side create a competition based on traceur vs nature instead of traceur vs traceur? Why can't the non-competitive side acknowledge that there is always a slight form of competition and instead of disregarding it all, help to create a competition that doesn't break any of the defined parts of the parkour they practice?

....Oh wait, it is happening. There are people from both "sides" who are working together to make sure that when it happens, it happens correctly. There are traceurs who believe whole heartedly that their parkour contains pieces of competition and there are traceurs that believe parkour is non-competitive.

Because of my personal beliefs, I take my parkour on a more spiritual level, so I lean towards the non-competitive side. I think parkour is pushing your body and mind to reach it's fullest. But I'm not so naive as to discard the fact that parkour in it's pure form is the definition of competition - it's a fight for survival, where the strongest, fittest, most in control live. (WARNING: PERSONAL BELIEF)I know there are two sides to parkour, a mental and physical, just as there are those two same sides in life. So I work with other traceurs from the other side of the spectrum so we can come up with a competition that is a happy medium. I think a competition that challenges the mind, tests the body, and connects you with other traceurs is possible. A competition where those who physically train hard are rewarded, but so are those who train equally as hard mentally to overcome themselves. A competition where traceurs work WITH each other to break these barriers, not against each other to tear us apart. So help me out guys, give some good ideas, feedback, constructive criticism, and your opinions in a respectful fashion and keep both sides in mind. Thanks  :)

Sat, I love your points. Daniel, I agree, sport would dilute so lets change it from a competitive sport to a cooperative experience.

Everyone else, keep in mind that when most of us use the word competition, we do NOT mean a head to head competition where it's two traceurs racing to beat each other in the same arena (like American Gladiators) instead we mean a competition like Ninja Warrior where there are a bunch of traceurs pushing to beat nature.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Paul Leon Mederos on February 19, 2009, 08:59:05 AM
Ugh I wrote too much, sorry guys.  [WTF]
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Chris Kessler on February 19, 2009, 10:17:45 AM
Wow, Leon, that was a really insightful post. Thank you for adding a bit of calmness and moral discourse as opposed to emoting.

But, what I loved most was your idea of "cooperative competition."

I can honestly see like, a team of 5 traceurs that have to perform a certain task, maybe they have to stay within a certain distance from each other, and TOGETHER they have to reach a goal, perform a task, or solve some sort of puzzle. Thus, we don't have anyone rooting for one guy, or anyone going against anyone else, we have everyone cheering on everyone!

It makes me think of a team sort of Ninja Warrior. It would be an amazing thing to put together.

If you ever want to put some serious thought into that kind of event/competition, you have my number, and we'll talk it over. I think that is quite within the bounds of "pure" parkour.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on February 19, 2009, 10:59:02 AM
But I'm not so naive as to discard the fact that parkour in it's pure form is the definition of competition - it's a fight for survival, where the strongest, fittest, most in control live.

When I disagree with competition, I do not mean in this sense. This Is what Parkour is built upon, so I am not one to disagree with it.
Thanks you very much for posting that up Leon, I found that a very insightful post.

~David
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Eric Tracy on March 04, 2009, 06:24:21 PM
lol wow so much stuff has gone up on this board so fast i haven't had time to reply...

on another note i think the team thing would be amazing, this COULD keep it from becoming super competetive...
   -wow so many ideas

but anyways thanks to all who have posted your ideals and beliefs and i hope it goes on in a civilized manner
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on March 04, 2009, 06:41:49 PM
Ug this thread is back. I have put everything I think about the matter out already. I am against competition because parkour is about yourself and your goals and competitions would make yourself compare to other traceurs and that would not be good for alot of people. There I am washing my hands of this thread.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Muhammad on March 04, 2009, 07:31:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d1AxUPPcF8
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Alissa J. Bratz on March 04, 2009, 07:59:44 PM
Whether or not parkour ends up in the X-Games, it is very, very likely it will be in the Space Olympics (http://www.hulu.com/watch/34464/saturday-night-live-digital-short-space-olympics#s-p3-st-i1)

 :P
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Muhammad on March 04, 2009, 11:08:59 PM
Whether or not parkour ends up in the X-Games, it is very, very likely it will be in the Space Olympics (http://www.hulu.com/watch/34464/saturday-night-live-digital-short-space-olympics#s-p3-st-i1)

 :P

That was awesome LOL
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Chris Parker on March 04, 2009, 11:51:39 PM
MUSE that was great, it was so stupid it was funny. I couldnt stop laughing at it. Sorry back to the matter at hand.

OK for me I have known about parkour for quite a while and never really got into partaking in it for reasons unkown to myself, but during that time I was reading about it and watching it. As a martial artist of 10+ years, and a hockey player for 5+ I really like the philosophy and state parkour was and is in now. About a year ago I became sick of almost all martial arts and sports due to everybody I knew in it would make everything a competition. I hated it. Even my sensei's told me I need to partake in tournaments with I hated due to the attitudes of those involved. Even without tornaments I was always challenged to do what other of higher rank were doing, but respectfully declined and got ridiculed for being a "chicken". Oh and just to let everybody know this was at more than 8 different dojos, and 5 different tournaments.

I followed the old way of martial arts just like the ways parkour is set to be, with competion. Now dont get me wrong by competition I mean towards myself, to make myself better but also from others in a friendly manner(ill explain a little bit later). Back in our greatx5-10 grandfathers times martial arts were used to make one self better than we were the day before, and make it so we can protect ourselfs if needed. They were not worried with being able to completely destroy or dominate an apponent the're main goal was to survive wether they won or lost. Like my sensei's sensei said to me "There is no use in relying on others for competition, becaue the true demons that press you can only be found within." Though there was competition within dojos in past and present that competition was made to be friendly and helpful.

Like I said earlier competition needs to be friendly and used as a measure for your own progression. For example the first time I went to learn the art of parkour I went to meet up with the colorado springs group. When I first got there I was very nervous and intimidated to be around those that were in far better shape than me and better in every technique. One of the guys there saw how nervous I was when I was trying a vault that everybody else was doing and comparing the height and distance to each other. Now as I am being used to mean/violent competition I was expecting one of these guys to say something mean or ridiculing that would tell me that this is just like the martial arts or sports and say skew this. But he came up to me and said "hey dont be nervous we are all friends here none of us will make fun of you just because you cant do a technique or you screw up. We all started where you are now and we all know what its like to not be able to do what others can do. But this is parkour, this is different from other arts or activities. We are here to help each other and push each other to new levels. Whatever you need help with, just ask and we'll do what we can." (ya I remember that). Those were the best words I've heard in a long time, and made me feel more comfortable and more at home. Ever since that day I have never met a practicitioner who did nothing other than try to help me and give me confidence to do what needs to be done. (cept daily) :-\

So my opinion is that competition is fine in parkour whether it is in the philosophy or not, competition is in everything we do (or it could be). I believe competition needs to be self competition and friendly competition where we help each other out during our times of struggle. An example could be games where we each try our hardest to complete the goal at hand, but say we cannot finish one of the games or dont finish in time. The two teams should then get together and discuss what techniques work and which ones are not as effective. This will also allow each to realize the flaws within themselves and what needs to be practiced. If we went into the x games I believe others would be too concerned with being judged by other, or they would be too concerned with beating the other guy, when they should be saying "whether or not I manage to win or lose this I will be able to see where I need to improve based off my performance." Now in most competitions im pretty sure this happens but in my experience in tournaments my friends/other fighters are not worried about their own techniques and how they perform, they are too worried on how the other fighter will perform and how much is riding on this fight in terms of impressing others ,confidence, etc. They should not be concerned with win or lose but with progress and above all have fun. I dont know about everybody else but I practice martial arts and parkour for nothing other than the love of the arts.
Sorry for the long post, had to get that off my chest for a while. Thanks for listening...er reading :P
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on March 05, 2009, 08:32:46 AM
Ug this thread is back. I have put everything I think about the matter out already. I am against competition because parkour is about yourself and your goals and competitions would make yourself compare to other traceurs and that would not be good for alot of people. There I am washing my hands of this thread.

Same, except for I'll keep arguing in this thread :P
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Dan Elric on March 05, 2009, 12:34:34 PM
Ug this thread is back. I have put everything I think about the matter out already. I am against competition because parkour is about yourself and your goals and competitions would make yourself compare to other traceurs and that would not be good for alot of people. There I am washing my hands of this thread.

Same, except for I'll keep arguing in this thread :P

And your point by doing so?

Sat and I have already covered all of the ground.  There's nothing left to discuss.  Let it die.  If competition happens, it happens.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: TR on March 05, 2009, 01:30:03 PM
Just read: http://parkournorthamerica.com/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10639

The main point from that thread:

"My shout out is, dont go too crazy, dont be too negative. A) it doesnt change anything, B) it just f#cks up the Karma. Im in the scene for almost a decade now, and ive seen a lot of things happen. And one thing I learnt (those that are around for longer, know how much I participated in anti-campaigns, politics, etc ) is that negativity, fear and hate, dont help ANYONE.

We cant stop it, we dont even know if there is a need to. Lets be positive but prepared, and make the best of it we can. Lets be a community."
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: David Jones on March 05, 2009, 05:04:25 PM
Amen Brotha.

BTW the thread on PKNA turned out a lot better than on here.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: SafeNSure on March 31, 2009, 09:23:47 AM
In case anybody still cares about this...

I don't know about the X-games, but it will be soon on MTV (as pure entertainment, in my understanding...).
If you feel like commenting closer to the source, you can do it here: http://community.mtv.com/Discussion%20Thread/Parkour-Is-NOT-a-competition/0D3FCFFFF01AC2B53000900B29E41
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on March 31, 2009, 11:39:28 AM
What im about to say is probably going to offend the lot of you but at this point I think it needs to be said. As Americans being raised in a controversial society where raging war and games dont go without competition (for example as young children) we go out with friends and live to compete weather its "racing to the finish line" or seeing who can swim the fastest. We as Americans are accustomed to competition. Though I personally do not favor it most people do and as painful as it is to say America is probably the leading cause of why parkour is going to become based over competition.

This reminds me of how Martial arts and even skateboarding started off, at first they were about sole skating anti-comp and a discipline where attaining strength and valor was necessary, now they are both about competition.

In conclusion its almost inevitable that pk is going to be and already has become competitive.

*Take this as you will but I see it as reaching out and getting this off of my chest.
*In no way do I approve competition but who am I to say!

Hard to say but you do prove the most valid point since the dawn of time it has not been about winning but control. We wage war to control land that is the way it used to be. We have made every sport a compitition it is a human trait striving to be the best and as for pk becoming competition it will. Yes free running will be the sport but we all know that some espn show will want to say "we are heading back to the roots of this sport where the soul came from" and they will call it Parkour despite its philosophy. And exactly as David belle said, he didn’t like the way it was going because some take up this sport and teach it wrong. Those same persons that teach it wrong will be the ones that choose to influence this theory and change it into competition. Then those who are young will worship these men the same way they would a wrestler. And they grow up with all the fun but none of the philosophy. it’s up to us yes we can discuss this topic a million times and a million different ways but it is up to the men and women of APK to stand together and when this sport is infected by competition that leads men to hate men because when calls them self a better traceur. We will be there we must be there to prevent total infection. When this sport becomes a competition we have to beat them to the punch of “taking it back to the roots" and teach what this sport was really founded on. And yes this is a sport in its own way. A sport is based on athletic ability and HONEST COMPETITION which in theory is not the, I beat you factor but the fact that we strive to do our best. Yes you may jump higher and run faster but you grade yourself on skill the world of Parkour grades me on my actions and choices I flow with my own strength not to win but to have fun. That is what we must teach that when the "sport" of Parkour is mistaken for something else we will be its scholars who interpret what this WAY OF LIFE really is. We can call it whatever we want but the fact of the matter remains no matter how pk is taken or translated, we are all MAKING OURSELVES USEFULL. Just as David belle once said but to do that we have to follow pk completely meaning no domination. I can tell you all right now I will celebrate how high I can vault but the reason I will show off is so that when someone else is interested I can make them as strong as me and show them the philosophy. We all must take responsibility and not beat the competition but use it to our advantage. Let it be a part of the x games cause the truth is not all things come in time some things come with time meaning it may be slow or fast and just as we strive to run fast and flow freely we must act fast and liberate this sport from its competition. free running is a cousin of Parkour being that it is more technical, give espn free running but we who hold Parkour believe in the truth that we are strong in mind and body that we are useful and we are the discipline this sport needs.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on March 31, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
Quote
We can call it whatever we want but the fact of the matter remains no matter how pk is taken or translated, we are all MAKING OURSELVES USEFULL. Just as David belle once said but to do that we have to follow pk completely meaning no domination.

Yeah?  Why.  Give some basis for your STATEMENTS and not just TALKING.

Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on March 31, 2009, 02:01:52 PM
even skateboarding started off, at first they were about sole skating anti-comp and a discipline where attaining strength and valor was necessary, now they are both about competition.


Hmm actually you're wrong.  Skateboarding started out as a few friends who were violent, law breaking, and mostly resembled a gang.  They also competed in the first competitions.  Where do you even come up with saying something like anti-comp and strength and valor haha it makes no sense at all.

My other point is this: 90% or more skateboarders and climbers and martial artists never compete.  90% of traceurs will never compete either so why does it really matter so much to you people.  If somebody is getting into parkour because they think its fun, good thats what they're there for.  If they get into for some spiritual reason then they will learn about the "philosophy."  Parkour won't affect most of you anyway so why would you be so worried about it.  Do you think that the average Joe Skateboarder who doesn't compete cares that there is a competition?  No why would he, it doesn't effect him except maybe his skate park getting used for it 2 times a year or something.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Todd1 on March 31, 2009, 02:30:04 PM
Quote
Hmm actually you're wrong.  Skateboarding started out as a few friends who were violent, law breaking, and mostly resembled a gang.
Actually, you are wrong too. I know you're probably thinking Dogtown/Z-Boys, but skateboarding started way before that in the 50's.  And most of the pros then were what the Downtown boys would've called "goodie-two-shoes."  Of course when the Zephyr team starting winning all of the contests, the image of skateboarding was changed drastically. 

Having said that, I totally agree with the rest of your post.   
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on March 31, 2009, 02:51:50 PM
Quote
We can call it whatever we want but the fact of the matter remains no matter how pk is taken or translated, we are all MAKING OURSELVES USEFULL. Just as David belle once said but to do that we have to follow pk completely meaning no domination.

Yeah?  Why.  Give some basis for your STATEMENTS and not just TALKING.



well not too be rude but why do you have to come in to this thread and just try to kill what were sayin. in  the end we all agree here. but what do you mean by that so i can give you a baisis cause i think i did pretty well makin my point
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on March 31, 2009, 03:39:44 PM
and honestly dude im going to be rude in this one. i been reading through this thread and all you do is shoot down people we are having a debate and your shooting down both sides you forget to take one thing into account society itself. YOU make up the 90% that this sport will do nothing for. because you get into the sport practice get good and decide to shoot people down as if your a pro but most of these people here know more about it then you do. just because you know something about it doesnt mean its right so im going to kill a few of your points. parkour does have a philosophy every sport does just ask any REAL athelete/role model. parkour may not do anything for these people but they dont think about that they try to become famous because this is there hope. its common human traits yes we will compete everyone knows that and yes parkour is in term a competition but that doesnt mean we should go around trying to beat every one and make them feel bad cause there not good enough which is what the x-games would make of it. that guy that said "nuff said" was merely proving a point just like everyone he chose to do it through artwork of that picture and you shot him down and called him a tool over it. your being as close minded as the people who would ban you from a park for doing this sort of thing. if parkour did go into the x-games or bigger no one here would cry over it we would all be thrilled about it but we want it done the right way. all you do is shoot people down over it.

on top of that i will say that i agree with alot you say, like the skateboarding origins, it did start out with those kids but those kids had to get the idea from someone else. the guys they got it from were having fun in a safe respectable way. the kids who were violent and all, they took skateboarding and revolutionized it they made it something new but in the wrong way. and martial arts is competition, any master you train from in that will say the objective is to beat the crap out of the opponent. what my statement means is that you are right on alot of things but not all of them, the way you present yourself and talk about others is as if your a d-bag just ripping on people for example(Where do you even come up with saying something like anti-comp and strength and valor haha it makes no sense at all.) he was saying that yes these people compet but thats not completely why they practice there sport is just so they can win. and man who is into the sport will agree that if you win all the time then its just no fun so there has to be more to it then winning which is where the valor and strength come from. and to end all points on it david belle once said that he wished to be useful to others and himselp (not a word for word statement but that is the belief of what he ment) parkour becoming a sport on tv would be greatly useful. its another game for kids to play another way for fat people to loose weight and it will entertain people. try saying that none of those reason are useful. and it will piss off those who believe in only the philosophy but its there job to teach the the philosophy.(which by the way is the same philosophy that any sport will say they follow which is to be strong in body and mind and make good choices blah blah blah. people will make of this sport what they will. so quit hounding on everybody there just voicing there opinion and be open minded dont come off like an A WHOLE.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on March 31, 2009, 08:56:22 PM
and honestly dude im going to be rude in this one. i been reading through this thread and all you do is shoot down people we are having a debate and your shooting down both sides you forget to take one thing into account society itself. YOU make up the 90% that this sport will do nothing for. because you get into the sport practice get good and decide to shoot people down as if your a pro but most of these people here know more about it then you do. just because you know something about it doesnt mean its right so im going to kill a few of your points. parkour does have a philosophy every sport does just ask any REAL athelete/role model. parkour may not do anything for these people but they dont think about that they try to become famous because this is there hope. its common human traits yes we will compete everyone knows that and yes parkour is in term a competition but that doesnt mean we should go around trying to beat every one and make them feel bad cause there not good enough which is what the x-games would make of it. that guy that said "nuff said" was merely proving a point just like everyone he chose to do it through artwork of that picture and you shot him down and called him a tool over it. your being as close minded as the people who would ban you from a park for doing this sort of thing. if parkour did go into the x-games or bigger no one here would cry over it we would all be thrilled about it but we want it done the right way. all you do is shoot people down over it.

on top of that i will say that i agree with alot you say, like the skateboarding origins, it did start out with those kids but those kids had to get the idea from someone else. the guys they got it from were having fun in a safe respectable way. the kids who were violent and all, they took skateboarding and revolutionized it they made it something new but in the wrong way. and martial arts is competition, any master you train from in that will say the objective is to beat the crap out of the opponent. what my statement means is that you are right on alot of things but not all of them, the way you present yourself and talk about others is as if your a d-bag just ripping on people for example(Where do you even come up with saying something like anti-comp and strength and valor haha it makes no sense at all.) he was saying that yes these people compet but thats not completely why they practice there sport is just so they can win. and man who is into the sport will agree that if you win all the time then its just no fun so there has to be more to it then winning which is where the valor and strength come from. and to end all points on it david belle once said that he wished to be useful to others and himselp (not a word for word statement but that is the belief of what he ment) parkour becoming a sport on tv would be greatly useful. its another game for kids to play another way for fat people to loose weight and it will entertain people. try saying that none of those reason are useful. and it will piss off those who believe in only the philosophy but its there job to teach the the philosophy.(which by the way is the same philosophy that any sport will say they follow which is to be strong in body and mind and make good choices blah blah blah. people will make of this sport what they will. so quit hounding on everybody there just voicing there opinion and be open minded dont come off like an A WHOLE.

This may sound weird, but I'm extremely happy that you have decided to respond in the way that you did.  This is a debate, and people cannot fully express their opinions sometimes without having passion, anger, and occasionally rudeness, so by all means, lay it on as hard as you can because it will inspire people to defend their point of view with more passion.

When did I say that none of those reasons would be useful?  Also I'm not really hurt, but I'm a little confused when you said that most people here know more about parkour than me, you don't know me.  And I'm also a little confused by your statement that I make up the 90% that this sport will do nothing for.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on April 01, 2009, 07:04:32 AM
i like your point of view and i truthfully have nothing against you. my meaning is whether or not you knew it when you said certain things it came off like you knew little of it like when you were confused on the definition of parkour. it is to get from point a to point b but still that is only a fraction of the definition its more then words and what you do. you may even know more then me but it implied different when you said that statement. same thing for usefulness and yes 90% of them will never be famous or make money from it but that 90% are trying to. they all want either two things the wealth or the fame its common human traits we seek to be better. and i did have time to think about the competition portion(sorry to get off topic) but this is a sport and it going live will benifit us no matter what. x-games, olympics, mtv's ultimate chase. these things will all act as the z boys of parkour. they will revolutionize it and people will research it. i also found that (correct me if im wrong) sebastian foucan himself said he would like this to be a part of law enforcement and even THE OLYMPICS.

sorry i got off topic and probably did not clarify much im in class right now and not allowed to be on this site yet

Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Sat Santokh on April 01, 2009, 10:22:23 AM
I don't necessarily think that people only compete for the wealth or fame.  How many people in this thread actually watch the xgames closely?  The people who actually do watch them would realize a few things.  To start off with, I have never seen any negativity in the decade or so I've been watching them.  Everyone there is best friends with each other, they always congratulate each other and are extremely humble about it when they do win.  When one of them gets injured they are extremely worried about that person, and it is never "oh yeah now i have less competition."  I don't have the best example ready at hand but watch this and skip to about :21 seconds 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkIBkhr1SJU

Really?  Thats what you people who are so against competition are worried about?  They just hugged for about a minute straight, Bob was in tears afterwords and was saying stuff like oh man he did just as good as me we both had an equal shot at winning etc...

So by all you people who are generalizing and saying people will be d-bags if they compete, you are essentially saying that all the people who are skilled enough to compete, are inherently bad people.  Blanket statements can be dangerous, and some of the ones here are pretty much personal attacks on people who I have personally met, trained with, spent time with like Levi, or Ryan.  If these people are present and prevalent in sports like dirt biking, skateboarding, bmx, etc...  Why are you assuming that this won't be possible with parkour?  If anything the people who believe so strongly in the fact that traceurs are "better" in some way or another (a lot more common than you'd think) shouldn't you believe that there is a greater chance of them occurring in parkour? 
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on April 01, 2009, 11:02:54 AM
your right they are not d-bags to each other but you have to admit just becasue they are nice to each other doesnt mean they want to win. some football players are nice some are not and some sports have people who will honestly feel bad for an injured opponent and some will just act like it for PR every one wants to win but when they honestly do like the people and feel bad for the people they compete against. thats HONEST COMPETITION. the very kind of competition i would like to be apart of pk cause in that case 1 you gave it your all fairly and2 if you win then your actually better then someone else. people of honest competition will congragulate the losers people with out that kind of competition just focus on the fact that they one and find some way to gloat about it. yes x-games is filled with people who care about each other honest competition. but MTV is notorious for exploiting people in a negative way so when they make the "ultimate chase" which is a show based on parkour the only good thing we have on our side is that the people they chose to use for the show will play by honest competition. had they picked the wrong people it would be portrayed wrongly. but they still want the fame and glory they just know they dont have to be an ass to get it
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Scott Steinmetz on April 01, 2009, 11:16:45 AM
America does have a fixation on competition, but as long as the majority of active traceurs continue to follow the philosophy that IS parkour, no cultural influence can affect that.

And as far as the possible MTV show someone mentioned, I'm not a fan of putting parkour on the network that aired Jackass, I don't think that's the connotation I want to be attached to it... ("OH MAN LOOK AT THAT JUMP, SICK!" isn't what I think when I'm practicing somewhere)
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Todd1 on April 01, 2009, 12:28:39 PM
Quote
and2 if you win then your actually better then someone else.
Sorry, but I disagree.  I think most skaters will tell you that competitions have little to do with who is better than who.  It's more like who was having a better day that particular day.  There was a time when Tony Hawk was competition king.  And no, I'm talking way before X-Games.  From age 12 to nearly 30 he was the most dominant skater in any contest.  But he still had days where he lost.  That doesn't mean he was better than everyone when he was winning and worse when he lost.  I like the idea of healthy competition too, but only in competeing against yourself not others.  It was George Hebert who said when you compete against someone else, you are testing their weaknesses, not your own. 
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on April 01, 2009, 01:06:15 PM
Quote
and2 if you win then your actually better then someone else.
Sorry, but I disagree.  I think most skaters will tell you that competitions have little to do with who is better than who.  It's more like who was having a better day that particular day.  There was a time when Tony Hawk was competition king.  And no, I'm talking way before X-Games.  From age 12 to nearly 30 he was the most dominant skater in any contest.  But he still had days where he lost.  That doesn't mean he was better than everyone when he was winning and worse when he lost.  I like the idea of healthy competition too, but only in competeing against yourself not others.  It was George Hebert who said when you compete against someone else, you are testing their weaknesses, not your own. 

i like the compete with yourself theory but i like to compete with others to see if 1 i can do better or 2 they can. my cousin and me get into competitions all the time since then he got alot better at video games and i got to be a better athelete. i dont believe competing will solve all problems but sometimes being able to compare yourself to others in competition makes you push yourself to a degree that you may be more proud of. tony hawk may not have won all the time but even when he did loose im sure him and others may have agreed "man you would have had me if you landed that one move"(which proves your good day bad day statement) but when they had those conversations he would push himself a little farther and you know he would have been more proud of himself when he did land whatever trick they would talk about on that givin day. in my opinion competition is good so long as we get something out of it(something other then a gold medal) even the winner who makes a perfect 10 all across the board should be able to learn something from competition. sometimes comparing yourself to others can make you a better person if not make you realize how hard you have trained or how hard you need to train. heck right now if i was in a comp for anything i would settle with 3rd 4th 5th place it doesnt matter casue if i went into a parkour x-games i would watch others to see how creative they get and see if i can adopt the move.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: silent0tracuer on April 01, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
and yea parkour being on MTV will suck just because of how people percieve things on MTV. BUT  it being on espn as long as they stated certain things that are desired like some of the things on this thread then i would hold high respects for that show
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Jordan Lerner on April 01, 2009, 02:07:02 PM
ok, i would like to preface my following statements with a few things:
1) I have not read all of the posts in this thread, just about the first 50 or so, because i'm lazy and i will be the first to admit it. so, if i have missed someone's major argument, i apologize and would like you to correct me.
2) I have been training for all of 6 months now. not a lot of time by most standards, but i have already been able to feel the effect of training on my confidence, my outlook on life, and my physical strength.
3) my first exposures to parkour were through the newspaper, Youtube, and having a class with Sat (in that chronological order).

ok preface done, time for my opinion. i would first like to address the idea that parkour is not about competition. it is. the reason being that training with others improves how we ourselves train. if you see someone throw a 10 foot broadjump, you want to do that same jump, not because you want to be better than that person, but because you know it's possible and you know that you can get there. training with other people means you get to struggle for common goals, and if one person makes that goal, then the others around them want to make that same goal. so parkour is about competition, both with yourself and with other people.
as far as the whole "3 week newbies" thing goes (and i know i made a comment about this in another thread, for which i do stand corrected), there are irresponsible practitioners of every almost sport and discipline. there are people that train martial arts to be able to beat someone up. people hurt themselves all the time training for swimming, for basketball, for running. there are people that consider themselves to be better than everyone else because they practice a certain discipline, some traceurs included. so please do not mark parkour as somehow "purer" than another discipline for any reason. i can guarantee that the same sort of objections were raised when tai-kwon-do was added to the Olympics, but the only outcome i've seen from that is more people responsibly training to better themselves.
Sat made a comment that competition is the next natural step for parkour. while i do not necessarily agree that it is a natural step, i do not think that it would be a detrimental step. like i said, my first exposures to parkour came from the media, and i consider myself to be a responsible and involved practitioner (everyone has some ego, so don't deny me this little pat on the back). i feel that both the MTV parkour show and the X-games/formal competition ideas could be useful tools for people to learn about parkour, and take part if they are interested. there are groups in almost every part of the country dedicated to the advancement of parkour, and if people want to learn, they should be allowed that opportunity. like i said, there will be irresponsible practitioners, but that's something that has to be dealt with. let's face it, a lot of parkour looks super-badass, and people will want to try it. it would be better if people took the proper channels, but not everyone is willing to. that's why steroids are rampant in professional sports: some people just want to look good.
finally, i know that parkour means different things to different people. therefore, what i've said will resonate with some, and strike others as offensive. but that's what parkour is about. i'm going to adapt an old jewish proverb for this: "4 traceurs can look at a wall and come up with 5 different opinions on the best way to get up it."

thank you, and i hope that helps.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on April 01, 2009, 07:32:09 PM
Okay I think we have a perfect example of the spreading of parkour: ESPN: A show about athletes from all over the world and athletic events: Good exposure that will bring athletes to our community that actually will contribute to the development of the parkour community. M-TV: A crazy but cool pretty much party show that will outlook everything on wether it looks cool or not: Bad exposure that will attract people jumping off there roofs in an attempt to look "extreme". I may not be an expert but I think its pretty obvious what kind of attention we want. We want media exposure to show the real side of parkour not just the way it looks. If you look in to it you will find that NONE of the original and foremost practitionars supported the world freerun championship at all. When I first looked into the world freerun championships I felt sick. Is this what we want? All the traceurs striving to be in the world
Freerun championships instead of striving for perfection? All I can picture if we let parkour become this is pretty much pk becoming the next skateboarding. Pretty soon everyone does it noeone conditions and the community is torn apart by people that are aiming to bring down the community rather than aid it.
This is just an opinion please dont dock karma.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: max eisenberg on April 01, 2009, 09:00:48 PM
Okay I think we have a perfect example of the spreading of parkour: ESPN: A show about athletes from all over the world and athletic events: Good exposure that will bring athletes to our community that actually will contribute to the development of the parkour community. M-TV: A crazy but cool pretty much party show that will outlook everything on wether it looks cool or not: Bad exposure that will attract people jumping off there roofs in an attempt to look "extreme". I may not be an expert but I think its pretty obvious what kind of attention we want. We want media exposure to show the real side of parkour not just the way it looks. If you look in to it you will find that NONE of the original and foremost practitionars supported the world freerun championship at all. When I first looked into the world freerun championships I felt sick. Is this what we want? All the traceurs striving to be in the world
Freerun championships instead of striving for perfection? All I can picture if we let parkour become this is pretty much pk becoming the next skateboarding. Pretty soon everyone does it noeone conditions and the community is torn apart by people that are aiming to bring down the community rather than aid it.
This is just an opinion please dont dock karma.

free running was the new skate boarding for a little while. hardly anyone knows what parkour is.

parkour wont ever be the new skateboarding thing, its just not exciting enough to the untrained eye. you add a flip off a building and suddenly the whole world wants to watch, you finally perfect that monkey to precision and people tell you to stop jumping around.

parkour could never be in the x games, it just doesnt naturally have a place to fit into, its not an extreme sport.

free running however could easily be put into the x games, just because people want to watch other people flip off buildings.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: PKAB on April 02, 2009, 05:08:31 AM
Yes but now flips are parkour look on the front page david belle announced it. This basicly eliminates this whole pk and fr are different things crap. Freerunning is just a mindset and now its not even that. America is the last place with that problem though. Its official now pk and fr are the same thing. Iv already posted my thoughts on this thread and frankly I just want it to die.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Todd1 on April 02, 2009, 05:16:33 AM
lol PKAB, did you forget yesterday's date?  It was a joke.

And silent0traceur, good post.  I agree with you all the way about pushing each other further.  That is the really good thing about training with others as well as friendly competition, we can feed off of each other to improve ourselves.  But even then (for me at least) it's still about beating myself, not the other guy.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: max eisenberg on April 02, 2009, 07:08:37 AM
i would shy away from classifying it as competition, in competition there is always a winner and a loser.

it shows us that the possibility is there yes, competition can also lead you to take stupid risks and do things you arent ready for.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Jordan Lerner on April 02, 2009, 07:37:30 AM
i would shy away from classifying it as competition, in competition there is always a winner and a loser.

it shows us that the possibility is there yes, competition can also lead you to take stupid risks and do things you arent ready for.

that brings us back to the idea of irresponsible training. there is going to be some, but it's up to practitioners to know their own limits. as for the competition, yes there is a winner and a loser. but people are either going to be sore losers and egotists, or they are going to show humility and willingness to better themselves. that's how competition works. the difference is that some dwell upon its outcome and others accept what has happened and train harder for it. just because someone is a "winner" doesn't mean they need to classify themselves (or be classified as) better than the people they train with. I am well aware that, of the people i train with, i am the weakest traceur, both physically and technically. but that doesn't mean that i resent the people i train with. it means i want to be able to do what they do and to emulate them. it is a competition, but not an unhealthy one.
Title: Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
Post by: Justin L. on April 02, 2009, 11:30:40 AM
ya but still doing a demo, like i stated above, or workshop at the x-games would guve a HUGE boost to the sport considering how many people go to the x-games and watch them

But still, we don't want the wrong kind of people attempting Parkour.

A.K.A.

"OMG LETZ GO JUMPZ 0FF STU0FZ EPICZ PK LOOLOLOL"

Not all of the people at the X-Games are people who would understand it. And Parkour is non-competative, and I think it's better that way.