American Parkour Forum

Support Center => FAQ => Topic started by: Mark Toorock on November 29, 2007, 03:07:30 AM

Title: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Mark Toorock on November 29, 2007, 03:07:30 AM
We hear this one all the time. Some people will say you should never bend your knees past 90 degress - ask them to get off the floor from lying down, or how they get off the toilet.

Here's my response to a recent email

New Traceur,
At Primal fitness we teach people to bend past 90, but this is with personal supervision. What I would suggest is that you do unweighted squats as conditioning at least 3 days a week, working up to where 50, 75, or even 100 squats isn't a big deal for you,, and lay off anything that could be considered a drop until that time. Then, do some small drops, like 10 a day from a foot, and see where you are naturally more stable. Drops over about 5-6 feet will never be "good for you" as an exercise to build leg strength, and should be practiced sparingly and probably only in your second year of training when conditioning is up and you are very adept at landing and rolling.
M2
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Chris Lyons on May 13, 2008, 04:29:34 AM
I'v been landing and bending my knees past 90 degress for years... guess I need to go back to the drawling board. :-\
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: bjkpersonal@aim.com on June 05, 2008, 11:43:34 PM
i understand doing squats to condition the legs against the pressures of gravity, but can you advise a certain type of leg position?  i had this dilemma last night and ended up with the conclusion that i can push myself forward from any jump under 5 feet or so.  however, i'm not sure if i should roll at such a low height.  i don't need to take the pressure off of my knees, but it's the only way i can think of keeping my forward momentum, unlike bending my knees, where my only option is to try to spring myself upward, land, then resume running.  solution, please?
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Chris Lyons on June 06, 2008, 03:21:04 AM
WARNING: CHRIS IS ABOUT OT GIVE ADVICE!!

if i was in  your position the easiest way to maintain momentum in my opinion would be to perform a small hop almost imediatly after landing, and landing in such a way so that you would still tip forward, even when crouched.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: KC Parsons on June 06, 2008, 04:06:07 AM
Rolling after a drop (talking in terms of smaller drops especially) makes it feel like you're keeping forward momentum, and so you think you're keeping your speed up. However, but simply doing a standard landing, then exploding upwards and forwards into a sprint, you achieve a faster speed, but with a stop in between.
The idea of a roll is to disperse the force of the impact of the drop, and keep it 'flowing'. Not necessarily faster, though.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Chris Lyons on June 06, 2008, 04:24:11 AM
Rolling after a drop (talking in terms of smaller drops especially) makes it feel like you're keeping forward momentum, and so you think you're keeping your speed up. However, but simply doing a standard landing, then exploding upwards and forwards into a sprint, you achieve a faster speed, but with a stop in between.
The idea of a roll is to disperse the force of the impact of the drop, and keep it 'flowing'. Not necessarily faster, though.

+1 for being better at explaining things than I am  ;D
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: KC Parsons on August 25, 2008, 01:22:32 PM
I just want to point out the importance of avoiding uneven knee compression.

Anyone who's read Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength knows what I'm talking about, he goes over it in the squat section.

When crouched, and your knees are bent (yes, past 90), make sure they're in line with your toes.
If you keep your toes pointed forward, facing straight infront of you, make sure your knees are doing the same, and are in line with them.

If they point out ward, and form an angle, make sure your knees point out in the same direction. Like I said, if you don't, you'll be putting too much uneven compression the outside or inside (depending on how you land) of your knees.

If, when you look down at your toes upon landing, and they're like this:
 |   |
, then make sure your knees point forward with them.
If they look more like this:

 \     /
, Make sure your knees point the same way as your toes.

The knees and toes should be vertically in line together.



PS: Landing, but not allowing your knees to bend past 90 means you have to finish the landing by bending over a lot at the hip, and I'm sure your legs can bear the brunt of the landing way better than your spine and hips can, since your knees flex and more fluidly compress into it, while bending at the hip means you have to arc your back way too much.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Matthew Wang on August 29, 2008, 11:14:37 AM
So this means you should bend your knees past 90 degrees but you should make sure you have the proper strength and technique?
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: KC Parsons on September 01, 2008, 01:02:13 AM
So this means you should bend your knees past 90 degrees but you should make sure you have the proper strength and technique?
Exactly!
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Corey Rift Ehrler on September 29, 2008, 05:22:11 PM
^^Clarification = WOOHOO!!
 If I roll out of a drop then I do not go past 90*. If I am not rolling out of a drop than I bend my knees past 90* to help with the impact...
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: KC Parsons on September 29, 2008, 05:41:27 PM
I do want to add that going past 90 degrees is okay, but be careful when doing so.

For the most part, people tend to go past 90 when they 'bottom out', which is bad.
Bottoming out means just letting yourself fall with the impact.

You can bend past 90, but you should be muscularly, consciously resisting the impact the split second your feet hit the ground.

So again, it's okay, so long as you're doing it right.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Corey Rift Ehrler on September 30, 2008, 12:30:22 PM
I agree.  That is probably the worst possible things you can do to your knees is "bottom out".  I always use muscle the whole way down.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Andrew So on November 27, 2008, 09:00:39 AM
I agree.  That is probably the worst possible things you can do to your knees is "bottom out".  I always use muscle the whole way down.

Agreed.  The reason for the "90 degree" guideline is so people don't take drops beyond their level and have their ass crash into their heels.  It's certainly not a rule, but it's good to train precisions where the lower body can absorb the impact without bending the knees too much.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: KC Parsons on November 27, 2008, 12:47:36 PM
I'm glad you guys have the right idea. It's all about reasonability.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Shane Warren on December 22, 2008, 08:07:19 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm doing it completely wrong but when I land I continue to bend at my knees until I can extend my arms and touch the ground. 
i haven't had any joint or ligament problems yet.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: KC Parsons on December 23, 2008, 08:08:25 AM
I'm pretty sure I'm doing it completely wrong but when I land I continue to bend at my knees until I can extend my arms and touch the ground. 
i haven't had any joint or ligament problems yet.

Well first off, don't judge anything by you having joint problems. One, they could continue later. Two, by the time you realize it's wrong it could be too late.

You can extend your arms and touch the ground without bending your knees much at all (bending at the hips and leaning over). But too much of that is bad, too.
It's best to find a middle ground. Some bend at the knees and some leaning over to make the hands touch.
I personally recommend taking it a bit further and actually land in a way that allows the hands and arms and shoulders to take off some of the impact, as opposed to just slapping the ground with them.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Shane Warren on December 23, 2008, 06:45:15 PM
K thanks QMKC ;D
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Zach Hu Zerdaty on January 07, 2009, 09:42:44 AM
I'v been landing and bending my knees past 90 degress for years... guess I need to go back to the drawling board. :-\

For real, i started parkour straight with just my acctive body, not to much gym going, and i been doing 10 15 foot drops. oops. no wonder i had soar days.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: jorgeDominik on March 11, 2009, 10:38:29 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm doing it completely wrong but when I land I continue to bend at my knees until I can extend my arms and touch the ground. 
i haven't had any joint or ligament problems yet.

Well first off, don't judge anything by you having joint problems. One, they could continue later. Two, by the time you realize it's wrong it could be too late.

You can extend your arms and touch the ground without bending your knees much at all (bending at the hips and leaning over). But too much of that is bad, too.
It's best to find a middle ground. Some bend at the knees and some leaning over to make the hands touch.
I personally recommend taking it a bit further and actually land in a way that allows the hands and arms and shoulders to take off some of the impact, as opposed to just slapping the ground with them.
ran into this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBs4NABgR6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBs4NABgR6U)
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Nos0323 on January 11, 2010, 09:04:09 PM
so is doing squats the only way to improve leg muscle? cause my legs arnt very strong (im a girl)
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: cOUCH on January 19, 2010, 09:22:45 AM
I never do squats, or anything like that... but they would help, i just like to jump... Anywhere and everywhere as long as im confident ill make it... otherwise... HELLO INJURY! my old friend
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Keifer on July 18, 2011, 10:48:38 PM
i understand doing squats to condition the legs against the pressures of gravity, but can you advise a certain type of leg position?  i had this dilemma last night and ended up with the conclusion that i can push myself forward from any jump under 5 feet or so.  however, i'm not sure if i should roll at such a low height.  i don't need to take the pressure off of my knees, but it's the only way i can think of keeping my forward momentum, unlike bending my knees, where my only option is to try to spring myself upward, land, then resume running.  solution, please?

To preserve momentum without doing a roll, I just use a cat landing-like technique. Basically landing like normal, but move forward a little and stabilize with your hands, then push youself forwards with your legs as you take your hands off the ground. It's simple, easy to master, and I swear it has saved my life once or twice. I usually only roll on grass or packed rubber and if I have too much forward momentum to land in a cat style landing.

so is doing squats the only way to improve leg muscle? cause my legs arnt very strong (im a girl)

A girl who does parkour, some might find that kinda hot. Just sayin'. Anyways, you can do squats to build leg strength, you can run until your legs give-out (like I do), or you can practice balancing on rails and walking along them for a suspended period of time (also something I do near daily).

And now a reply to this thread itself; I bend my knees past 90 degrees if I feel it is necessary. Usually, I just bend my knees until I feel the schock of the landing has been absorbed, then I continue with my parkour path. Just to save time and to avoid hitting the ground with my back-yard or hitting my chin on my knee (both hurt very much. Believe me. =/). If I feel I have to bend my knees past about 50-45 degrees, I just land like a cat and absorb shock with my arms too, but it's usually not necessary. For me, anyways. Your style may be different from mine. =)
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Joe Brock on July 18, 2011, 11:13:10 PM
Hey, brosauce.  You just quoted people from 2008 and January 2010.

I would imagine that your advice is well appreciated, but I would figure that these particular people have long since come to grips with their own answers. :)
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Keifer on July 18, 2011, 11:37:53 PM
Hey, brosauce.  You just quoted people from 2008 and January 2010.

I would imagine that your advice is well appreciated, but I would figure that these particular people have long since come to grips with their own answers. :)

 ::) Eh, you never know who is sitting at their computer on this forum, this very minute, with the same question. :) Also, liking the signature. Jason Statham in one of my favorite actors and the picture as a whole amuses me.  :P Btw, "brosauce?" I'm sorry but that made me lol.  ;D *like button*
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Jennifer on November 02, 2011, 06:41:51 PM
I definitely bend my knees more than 90 degrees when I drop from a medium height. If I'm dropping from high enough that I want to roll it out afterward, I put my weight a little more forward so rather than

land. Then roll.

The way I land drops me forward directly into the roll. It's one smooth motion, no pause or re-aligning in between.
Title: Re: Should I bend my knees past 90 degrees when I land?
Post by: Charlie on March 19, 2012, 02:03:16 PM
I usually will bend my knees past 90 but not so im sitting on my ankles. High drops, keep your legs tense if you plan on rolling. And tense still if you dont
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