American Parkour Forum

Parkour and Freerunning => Parkour And Freerunning => Topic started by: The Fallen on January 30, 2006, 03:12:53 PM

Title: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on January 30, 2006, 03:12:53 PM
Not so much a aspect. But a something i dont think ive heard people talk of. Unless you use code tongue. Anyways allow me a chance to explain.

I was training at my house from about 4-5 like always and then i looked around and thought. Hmm what else can i do with this place. There was a gate i hadnt yet vaulted and i walked over to it. I stopped about a foot away. Turned got into running position and sprinted...Now before i explained what happened let me explain why i turned and got ready before testing it. I wanted to be foolish and challenge myself a little but that wasnt the main reason. I wanted to see if i could truly overcome the obstacle just by sight, sound, and first touch....So i sprinted at it. And i felt it. Instead of doing a regular monkey i seemed to just glide right over the gate. As soon as my hand placed on it i felt it to be unstable and instantley shifted my weight upwards and barely made contact with it except a few on the hands. But the testing of myself and the slight of hand reaction wasnt the feeling. It was the gliding sensation i achieved. I did a vault over my grandfathers truck. Another over some haybales i set up. And continued with it. This may be something already discussed but i dont think ive seen it. Im sure some of you have experienced it. Its like your center of gravity is just following the smooth guideline of the path of the vault. I dont think this is a part of flow because flow involves a series of individual movements to create that sensation.

Thoughts and comments bitte  ;)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Steez on January 30, 2006, 03:24:37 PM
this is one thing that i've always feared a little bit.
people talk about "some guy is chasing you with a magazine subscription", or "your mother is trapped in a burning building"
in these situations, if you are just bookin' it through an area and over obstacles that are new to you, you could very easily end up getting pwned (excuse it just this once) by a faulty piece of railing/wall/etc.

i would guess it would be good to get used to just trying this every once in a while, so as to be prepared, but be careful!  no turn vaults over 100000 foot drops without making sure the railing wont break. 

this also will tune up your proprioception abilities.  it ensures that you have a good sense of your center, which is essential to almost everything. This idea is pretty popular in parkour, i think. ( I saw Gear posting about a book called Chi Running (i think that was it), that focused on this idea of knowing one's center.)

so, yea it can be good, but be careful, you are putting yourself in a situation of elevated risk.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on January 30, 2006, 03:34:50 PM
Im just as cautious as the next guy. I rigured a gate couldnt be too painful. Like a good scientest. Always test your theory. Then lie. then publish the results! but yes, I can understand how chi running would come into play. It definatley felt glidefully awsome.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Tyson Cecka on January 30, 2006, 04:16:16 PM
Most of my vaults especially ones where I'm not sure about the surface/reliability of what I'm vaulting, I send my center of gravity well over the obstacle and use my hands to guide and control. That way you don't use your hands to pull you over, you practically jump over and just touch with your hand(s), like a fast speed vault. The only case I can think of where you really ned to use your hands to a great deal would be a high distance kong or possibly a turn vault.

Good job on getting the feel! Important skill that just takes time.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Gearsighted on January 30, 2006, 04:20:07 PM
You can learn the different aspects of obstacles and surfaces a few different ways. One is to constantly expose yourself to new and unknown areas and take the time to thoughtfully work your way through them to realize the differences in quality, etc. of different surfaces. Another is to learn through experience in a more immediate way, by throwing yourself at obstacles and attempting to adjust accordingly as inconsistencies arise. The last is to approach it in an academic way, studying the potentials from outside the sphere of actual movement and eventually attempting to apply them through this knowledge alone.

Needless to say, very few people would choose any one of these things exclusively, and I feel they all have their place when used in the right context. I feel that the most responsible way to approach this development of schema (sets of experiential movement that you can then apply to similar contexts in different environments) is by constantly checking surfaces and gaining intimate knowledge of the potential hazards inherent in certain obstacles first, then eventually applying this expansive knowledge-set to more random and variant events. I will often do exactly what you did...perhaps approaching a chain-link fence at full speed without prior knowledge of this particular fence's sturdiness, knowing full-well that I plan on floating over the fence with little or no force applied. I will usually do so with a speed-vault at a full sprint, where the contact of your hand is almost inconsequential.

The point is, it is best to be safe in as many situations as possible, because through this attitude you will gain more useful knowledge of your environment and all the obstacles you encounter, without possibly cutting your time with Parkour short. It is through this process that you will gradually realize your ability to predict the nature of certain objects in a more random context, and by doing so, will further increase your knowledge-base for any situation.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on January 30, 2006, 04:56:26 PM
Some of the best advice ive gotten in a while gear. You are most definaltey one of the brighter ones  ;). Find your way to approach your enviorement. The most comfortable and fitting path. Starting to enjoy this site. and oh yeah. Why am i booking flights on VAPK!!!!!!! haha work it out guys!

All in all guys. Find your own path  ;). Fallen out
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Josh Klute on January 30, 2006, 05:32:27 PM
I have a lot of trouble finding the "medium" between testing and just going.  I really want to just go and see what happens, but I know that I could really hurt myself.  It seems that I have to test eveything I do a few times before I actually attempt it, it's really kinda bothersome.  Fallen, thankyou for bringing this up, these kinds of topics really get me thinking ;).  Uh oh here comes a new topic  :)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: FCBredsox500 on January 31, 2006, 08:11:43 PM
thats a interesting story. i was jumping off my 20 foot roof today. and rolling at the bottom. it was great. all i felt was the sensation of being in mid-air. it feels great. i dont no how to vault yet but i'm workin on it. ok talk to you guys later.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on January 31, 2006, 08:15:52 PM
Hmm.....Straight up advice!

Dont go jumping 20 feet *if it is infact that*. Bad on the knees for sure. Keep it to low stuff even though you think your ready for the high jumps. Work on the basics. Vaults, Precisions, Cats, Climbs. All the essential basics before attempting anything over at least 10 feet. Keep it fun keep it safe!  :)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: jmanndriver on January 31, 2006, 08:17:11 PM
I would beleive this feeling to be called the no fear effect. tis when you dont have to think about it. you just do it.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: FCBredsox500 on January 31, 2006, 08:19:51 PM
ok thatnks for that advice THE FALLEN. I'll make sure i won't go jumpin off something higher than ten. Thanks.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Skipper on January 31, 2006, 08:22:19 PM
Right, just remember to take it slow. anyone can fall  ;) Id like to see your knees last longer than 5 years  ;)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Altimot on January 31, 2006, 08:28:25 PM
ya take it slow, especially if you don't know how to vault yet.     

from what you are saying, fallen, it sounds like to me that you have just experienced the "flow" most people reffer to. but i didnt quite get what you were saying, so i could be wrong.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on January 31, 2006, 08:31:06 PM
lol my posts make no sense sometimes. Ive experienced flow and i still cant put my finger on this one myself. Weightless is what i was...hmmm going to figure this out later.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Altimot on January 31, 2006, 08:33:52 PM
i hear ya man, i think i have a better idea on what you are trying to get across now.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Rafe on February 01, 2006, 12:16:06 AM
If I am out doing parkour and I am unsure of on objects sturdiness I just flip it instead  ;)  ;D .
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Flippusmn on February 01, 2006, 08:12:38 AM
If I am out doing parkour and I am unsure of on objects sturdiness I just flip it instead  ;)  ;D .

Same here, that usually seems to be a good EFFICIENT alternative lol. ;)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Ryan Ford on February 01, 2006, 10:10:31 AM
Same here, that usually seems to be a good EFFICIENT alternative lol. ;)

yeah i know, who would actually just do a simple jump instead??
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Rafe on February 01, 2006, 01:22:08 PM
yeah i know, who would actually just do a simple jump instead??

Boring! So not flowing too.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on February 01, 2006, 01:23:51 PM
Can i? nah ill let someone else do it...
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: jmanndriver on February 01, 2006, 01:27:42 PM
fliping isn't neccesary in parkou r i hope you know. but it is fun.  ;D
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Manilla Gorilla on February 01, 2006, 01:35:10 PM
We really need that sarcasm smiley...ill get on that
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on February 01, 2006, 01:39:06 PM
good thinking manilla. Meanwhile ill try to make one with the keys. &) #%) ##) %#)@) !)SA )A DA) DA).....ok no success there......
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Flippusmn on February 01, 2006, 03:05:34 PM
Quote
yeah i know, who would actually just do a simple jump instead??
not I, besides what if it's too high to jump, then flipping might be the best alternative to a vault right ;).



BTW: sarcasm should be a virtue ::).
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Ryan Ford on February 01, 2006, 03:26:21 PM
ive seen some people double leg pretty damn high but other than that, i doubt you can flip higher than you can jump.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Steez on February 01, 2006, 03:28:02 PM
flips can be parkour, but they are not.

my .87
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: JumpOff on February 01, 2006, 03:46:37 PM
Alright here's another aspect:
Yes, it is true that you should always check your surfaces, and get used to surfaces, but take this in mind:

When people say "how do they do that?!" to any real physical sport sport: say it be a
*backflip in gymnastics
*a controled pike dive
*a kickflip in skateboarding
*even a proper running technique,

it is many times that they cannot "do it" because they are not used to the physical sensation of the action.  Backflips are awkward, because people are not used to going backwards.  A dive is wierd because you stall, and get more height than humanly normal.  A kickflip is wierd when you have no control of the board- Even running, like the awkward pitter patter before a hurtle or vault.  However, as you get more experience in these fields, you begin to get better. Why? Because you are getting used to the split second actions that your body must perform.  After a while, you become aware of the movements(after repitition), and you sson are able to have a concience awareness of what are you doing.  You then open your eyes and are able to make small tweaks in backflips; able to control a slow half twist in diving; able to flip the board an extra 180 to make it a varial flip, and make better strides in your running.

Point is, that as you get more experience, you begin to have faster reactions.  So hypothetically, say you took this "true" excercise or parkour.  I mean you usually look for a positively accesible area to kong over-BUT say you always took this "blind" jump over the fence.  At first, you would freak out, say like in diving...but as you continued to do these "blind" jumps, you would make faster and faster reactions, like you talked about. You would get faster and smoother at thse random jumps, as your body would get used to making these quicker decisions.  Now i'm not saying go make blind jumps off of cliffs, but rather this post is limited to your fence problem...
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: The Fallen on February 01, 2006, 03:52:43 PM
I dont have a problem. YOU GOT THE PROBLEM MAN! hehe i think jumpoffmyroof put it into good context for all of us. Good post jumpoff!
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Flippusmn on February 01, 2006, 05:40:22 PM
ive seen some people double leg pretty damn high but other than that, i doubt you can flip higher than you can jump.

Say theres a rail or fence that is 5 1/2 feet tall, now I can't jump that high but I can dive up and over and flip it though. I have lots of objects that are to dangerous to tough that are about that height so I flip them ;). 

flips can be parkour, but they are not.

my .87


I totally agree with you on that one.

Quote from: jumpoffofmyroof
that as you get more experience, you begin to have faster reactions
Good point (sarcasm yet true and confusing if you understand what I'm saying) lol.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Ryan Ford on February 01, 2006, 05:57:20 PM
Say theres a rail or fence that is 5 1/2 feet tall, now I can't jump that high but I can dive up and over and flip it though. I have lots of objects that are to dangerous to tough that are about that height so I flip them ;). 

ok then post a video of you jumping this 5.5 ft. obstacle and then you flipping it. id like to see how effective they are.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Skipper on February 01, 2006, 07:42:23 PM
i think this can be solved using a simple, over-used phrase.

flips are not parkour, dont try and argue your points about why they might be, because it has all been heard before, and its all been proven wrong. Im really sorry to break it to you all. im not really sure how this started.  :P

but just to avoid this little argument once again, just stop here.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Altimot on February 01, 2006, 08:05:33 PM
^^^ Do what he says, please, please^^^ i dont think i could take another "flips and parkour" argument. :)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Josh Klute on February 01, 2006, 09:53:33 PM
It's strange how so many topics seems to go down the "flips" road.  It is really starting to get annoying to me, we have a few topics specifically aimed towards the "flips" subject.  Though Please don't bring them back to life unless you really really need something clarified.  I'm sure that the community wouldn't want to get involved in a huge debate against just a couple of people (it's happened before and it's not pretty).  So now that thats out of the way. 

I really enjoy just running through whatever is in my way, though I don't like to just vault something that doesn't look too sturdy to me.  Maybe eventually I'll be good enough to just jump straight over the barrier, but for now, whenever I see something like a frail fence I look for other ways to get to the other side.  I know that looking for other ways is probably not very efficient, but for now I'd rather play it safe.  I really can't risk hurting myself.  So, I'm just gonna keep training on safer stabler things for the mean time.  Eventually I will succeed at greatness, it just might take a little longer compared to other people ;)
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Rafe on February 02, 2006, 01:32:58 AM
It started cause I made a joke one that was accompined by not one but to smilies to indicate it was joke. I had hoped that this subject had been cleared up to the point that one could make a joke about it, apparently not.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: jmanndriver on February 02, 2006, 03:51:01 AM
i relly like to parkour through my invironment, i dont know that many moves but with what i know i can still do it. kongs, cat leaps, rolls, speed vualts, and wall runs. you dont need to know everything to the lets say "Tricking" of parkour. You just need to know the basics of it and how to live through it and flow.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Flippusmn on February 02, 2006, 12:27:43 PM
Say theres a rail or fence that is 5 1/2 feet tall, now I can't jump that high but I can dive up and over and flip it though. I have lots of objects that are to dangerous to tough that are about that height so I flip them ;). 

ok then post a video of you jumping this 5.5 ft. obstacle and then you flipping it. id like to see how effective they are.


I don't feel like making a video so watch the DvinskClan-LeParkour video to get an idea, surly you have seen this Demon. Go into that video about 57 sec. and you will see him do a dive frontflip over a rail that is probably 5 feet tall maybe a bit less in that one. Now with a bigger drop off you will have more time to flip making it easier to flip over a higher object and on flat ground. In the video he could have just konged it but I am talking about untouchable objects that are to high to just jump, I don't know about you but I can dive higher than I can jump, all you need to do is flip when you clear it. You could also use a flip to slow yourself down from a large jump which is very uncommon and you can definitely use a flip to cover more ground in a jump or a bigger gap if done right.

Now I am not starting another flips are not parkour argument because I didn't mention that until now did I, flips are not Parkour period.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: Skipper on February 02, 2006, 04:22:46 PM
right, but the dvinsk clan video is not a parkour video.

far from it actually.

end discussion please, again, its all been said, every situation with flips. were not going back through it again.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: kaos on February 02, 2006, 07:12:59 PM
Going back to what Demon said...I would really like to see that video comparison.
Title: Re: Undiscovered aspect to parkour?
Post by: JumpOff on February 02, 2006, 10:29:20 PM
OMG STFU  :-* <--("noob")