American Parkour Forum

Not Parkour or Freerunning => Socialize => Topic started by: Kyle Rudolph on October 08, 2011, 07:22:45 PM

Title: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 08, 2011, 07:22:45 PM
So it seems that according to certain mods it's ok to have religion in your signatures and bible verses and crap. And as long as we're not converting we can discuss it.

So, discuss.

I myself am an atheist. I won't try and convert you. But if you want to discuss it, let's talk in this thread.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Josh Wright on October 08, 2011, 07:24:15 PM
I am an Atheist myself. I could give you tons of different supporting reasons but we can just leave it like that. I try to love everyone though - it doesn't matter what you believe.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: jaycee on October 08, 2011, 07:47:35 PM
I'm agnostic because I don't think you can really prove one way or the other that there's any sort of higher power.

... though I frequently get accused of being anti-Christian because I argue pretty forcefully against making laws out of religious principles. ^_-
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Xiras on October 08, 2011, 08:14:25 PM
I believe in God and The Bible and Heaven and Hell and Satan and demons and such, but I love listening to others points of views and beliefs. It doesnt change my own personal faith, and it lets me ask plenty of questions so I can understand why they believe what they do. I am not christian or any other religion at all nor am I agnostic. I dont like people who outright refuse to discuss other religions and such nor do I like religious fanatics.

I could honestly go on and on about things I dont like about religious people, but I'll be cordial ^_^
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Nick Fernandez on October 08, 2011, 08:51:06 PM
I'm Catholic, but it can be confusing and makes me a little doubtful sometimes. But it's good to believe in something imo, I can't really believe that once you're gone you just fall asleep, turn into a squirrel, etc., or at least I hope not.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ian Simonson on October 08, 2011, 09:45:08 PM
I'm somewhere on the border of Atheist and Agnostic.  Do I believe in god? no.  But when i'm being philosophical with my friends and we're just coming up with, or debating different possible points of view do some of the things seem impossible?  no, just extremely improbable.

As Donnie Darko says, " I've just never seen any proof so I... I just don't debate it anymore, you know? It's like I could spend my whole life debating it over and over again, weighing the pros and cons and in the end I still wouldn't have any proof so I just... I just don't debate it anymore."
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alec Furtado on October 08, 2011, 11:50:39 PM
I'm agnostic because I don't think you can really prove one way or the other that there's any sort of higher power.
You'd be surprised at what I am, but this is a main point. At least according to the "higher-ups."  Both "sides" affirm that since you cannot prove it proves their stance.

[/youragrumentisinvalid]




My goal in this thread is not to identify truths... just to identify problems in logic. That role is quite often necessary.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Micah. on October 09, 2011, 05:29:31 AM
I believe in myself.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: hfksla on October 09, 2011, 08:24:39 AM
I believe in myself.

I'm don't belong to any religion at heart. I'm confirmed, but that was more for my parents than anything.
I don't call myself atheist because that assumes a belonging to a group. My belief is that religion as a whole is stupid, it only causes war and bullshit discussion.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 09, 2011, 08:50:29 AM
You'd be surprised at what I am, but this is a main point. At least according to the "higher-ups."  Both "sides" affirm that since you cannot prove it proves their stance.

[/youragrumentisinvalid]




My goal in this thread is not to identify truths... just to identify problems in logic. That role is quite often necessary.

I always thought you were Christian Alec?
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kimberly Heuer on October 09, 2011, 09:31:20 AM
I'm Mormon (and just to head things off: Yes, I believe in Christ; No, I do not sacrifice babies [or goats], burn cross, worship the devil, have devil horns, or am a polygamist. Or any other of a dozen things I've been accused of to my face :-Sarcasm ).

There were a few years in my life where I wasn't sure what I was or believed, or if I believed anything at all. But my life started falling apart in a huge way, and that's when I discovered what I truly was. My religion pulled me out of the darkest place in my life and I haven't looked back.

but I love listening to others points of views and beliefs. It doesnt change my own personal faith, and it lets me ask plenty of questions so I can understand why they believe what they do.
Same here. Couldn't put it better myself.

And I'm with Kyle. Not going to try an convert people, but open to discuss.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Xiras on October 09, 2011, 11:12:10 AM
I believe in myself.

the good ol "me, myself, and I" hm?
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 09, 2011, 11:51:40 AM
I'm Mormon (and just to head things off: Yes, I believe in Christ; No, I do not sacrifice babies [or goats], burn cross, worship the devil, have devil horns, or am a polygamist. Or any other of a dozen things I've been accused of to my face :-Sarcasm ).

There were a few years in my life where I wasn't sure what I was or believed, or if I believed anything at all. But my life started falling apart in a huge way, and that's when I discovered what I truly was. My religion pulled me out of the darkest place in my life and I haven't looked back.
Same here. Couldn't put it better myself.

And I'm with Kyle. Not going to try an convert people, but open to discuss.

Finally. Found one of you.

I've read the Bible multiple times as well as the Torah, Bhagavad-Gita, Qu'ran, Satanist Bible, and the Mūlasarvāstivāda.

I have yet to read The Book of Mormon however.
But I have to ask.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

How accurate is this cartoon?
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 09, 2011, 11:56:27 AM
No matter what you believe, this is pretty funny too.

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1BfNYa/www.hostedfile.com/videos/5260/flanders-evolution.html
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Xiras on October 09, 2011, 12:00:11 PM
I have nothing to convert anyone to. Either you believe in God or you dont. Simple as that. If a person wont listen to God when he talks to them everyday of their lives, then what would make me think me talking to them about God will suddenly change their minds. The beauty of free will is that we arent forced to do something we dont want to. That being the case I wont disrespect God by trying to force someone to change their views. If a person doesnt believe in God or The Bible and he isnt interested in believing him I wont even waste my energy on that person, you cant make a person change they have to want to first. Instead I'll go to the one who's interested but unsure and wants to learn. Just my feelings on the subject.

Lol Kyle I love the simpsons.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Nick Fernandez on October 09, 2011, 12:19:46 PM
It's called faith. Sometimes you don't always have the necessary proof and facts to know whether something is right or wrong, real or fake, and so on.

What I've learned is that people created religions and beliefs in order to understand the world around them before they had technology and ways to scientifically prove things such as why the sky is blue, why day turns to night, and where spiders came from. Maybe I mixed that up with mythology, but it's basically a shared concept on how our world came to be, whatever religion you have.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Brian Dayton on October 09, 2011, 02:30:49 PM
I'm an agnostic, but I like the beliefs and philosophies of buddhism. I don't like christianity so much. There's nothing wrong with it's beliefs or ideals, but the vatican has censored the bible much that I don't really trust it. I also don't think parents should force they're religion on their kids. You can teach them the basics of religion but they have the right choose what to believe in. Treat religion like you treat your penis. Don't show it off in public and don't shove it down your kids throat.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alex Patterson on October 09, 2011, 02:36:38 PM
My phone did something weird last time so I'll try this again.

I am Mormon as well. And that video that Kyle put up is so far from what we believe.

I believe in my beliefs. But am one that thinks everyone is entitled to believe what they want as long as it doesn't hurt, or disrespect others.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 09, 2011, 04:24:15 PM
My phone did something weird last time so I'll try this again.

I am Mormon as well. And that video that Kyle put up is so far from what we believe.

I believe in my beliefs. But am one that thinks everyone is entitled to believe what they want as long as it doesn't hurt, or disrespect others.
I wasn't asking if it is what "you believe". You'll find billions of Christians that don't use the Bible for crap but still believe in Jesus and whatnot. What am I asking is, is that what is written in The Book of Mormon? I have yet to read it.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alex Patterson on October 09, 2011, 04:54:39 PM
I'll PM ya what is in it. Don't wanna get too deep into it on the site.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: hfksla on October 09, 2011, 06:08:59 PM
I like the beliefs and philosophies of buddhism.

Yeah, I like the idea and philosophies of a bunch of religions regarding morality and all that mental shit. The afterlife and unseen beings is just where I don't believe.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Shamas on October 09, 2011, 06:10:53 PM
I am a non denominational christian who puts faith over religion and promotes relationships over belief conflict. You have you ways and I will have mine. If by the way I live my life you feel compelled to change, or by my example you feel some sort of change of heart, so be it.

God bless, even if you don't subscribe to the belief.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kimberly Heuer on October 09, 2011, 09:00:57 PM
I wasn't asking if it is what "you believe". You'll find billions of Christians that don't use the Bible for crap but still believe in Jesus and whatnot. What am I asking is, is that what is written in The Book of Mormon? I have yet to read it.

I don't even... wow.
No Kyle, this is not accurate in any way. None of that is written in the Book of Mormon. Not even close.
Youtube is the last place ANYONE should go to learn about anything. Especially something like religion (no matter what denomination). There are a lot of crazy lies about the Mormon religion plastered across the internet http://mormon.org/ (http://mormon.org/) is probably about the one place online where you can actually get accurate information about us.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Nick Fernandez on October 09, 2011, 09:02:02 PM
And how magnets work.

I honestly don't get the joke though, but hell I DO know how they work
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alec Furtado on October 10, 2011, 01:57:06 AM
I always thought you were Christian Alec?
Nope. Come from a Christian background and have found a lot of value in it, but to say that was my religion wouldn't be the case. Still though, I do fend off people illogically attacking Christianity/Catholicism as a whole since that means they are attacking my background and the great people I've come to know and love. (At least that's how it is to me, obviously that's not usually somebodies actual purpose. I'd much prefer people identify the actual group or person instead of eeeverybody. That gets closer to the root of the problem anyway, which is better.)


On a different note, this article makes me chuckle: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20117206-501465.html
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alex Patterson on October 10, 2011, 02:38:09 AM
I don't even... wow.
No Kyle, this is not accurate in any way. None of that is written in the Book of Mormon. Not even close.
Youtube is the last place ANYONE should go to learn about anything. Especially something like religion (no matter what denomination). There are a lot of crazy lies about the Mormon religion plastered across the internet http://mormon.org/ (http://mormon.org/) is probably about the one place online where you can actually get accurate information about us.

Isn't that video just crazy? I knew people think of us as different. But that's just over the top.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 10, 2011, 04:25:05 AM
And how magnets work.

I honestly don't get the joke though, but hell I DO know how they work

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work#.TpLmMhxWYb8

Ignorant meme is ignorant.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 10, 2011, 04:25:55 AM
I don't even... wow.
No Kyle, this is not accurate in any way. None of that is written in the Book of Mormon. Not even close.
Youtube is the last place ANYONE should go to learn about anything. Especially something like religion (no matter what denomination). There are a lot of crazy lies about the Mormon religion plastered across the internet http://mormon.org/ (http://mormon.org/) is probably about the one place online where you can actually get accurate information about us.
Oh, aight. Like I said. Haven't read the book. Was always waiting for a couple of those dudes on bicycles to come by and give me one for free but no luck so far.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kimberly Heuer on October 10, 2011, 06:16:44 AM
Isn't that video just crazy? I knew people think of us as different. But that's just over the top.

It was painful trying to force myself to watch the whole thing. But in all honesty, it's not completely shocking to me. It's not common to run into that level of misconception in Utah, but go south, to the bible belt, and things get real crazy real fast.

Oh, aight. Like I said. Haven't read the book. Was always waiting for a couple of those dudes on bicycles to come by and give me one for free but no luck so far.

It's ridiculously easy to get the dudes on bikes over to give you one. Fill this out: http://mormon.org/free-book-of-mormon/ (http://mormon.org/free-book-of-mormon/) and they'll be at your house within a week or two. I'm not trying to push anything. That video thing just... well, it's not happy watching your own religion being defamed by such ridiculous falsehoods, especially if people are just taking it as truth.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Eli on October 10, 2011, 07:18:58 AM
That video thing just... well, it's not happy watching your own religion being defamed by such ridiculous falsehoods, especially if people are just taking it as truth.
Really? I always had just kinda took stuff like that as a friendly poke. Though I guess different people have different feelings towards it.

This man here with the ten fingers and the face is an atheist though. Raised Catholic. Woop.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alex Patterson on October 10, 2011, 07:50:36 AM
Trust me. There was nothing friendly about that video.

My sister is atheist. My parents are agnostic. And my brother doesn't know what he is. I'm the weird one in my family.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 10, 2011, 11:12:03 AM
Trust me. There was nothing friendly about that video.

My sister is atheist. My parents are agnostic. And my brother doesn't know what he is. I'm the weird one in my family.
My parents are serious Christain's, but my brother is a Mahayana Buddhist and I'm an atheist. We were both raised Christian though and went to Catholic schools our whole lives. I feel you on the weird thing. :p
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Nick Fernandez on October 10, 2011, 02:43:45 PM
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work#.TpLmMhxWYb8

Ignorant meme is ignorant.

I was going to delete that before anyone read it, but you got me. Stupid post is stupid  :-Sarcasm

I'm surprised so many atheists there are here, for some reason I never thought of it.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ian Simonson on October 10, 2011, 04:48:35 PM
My mom was brought up with a slight protestant background (Church of England) though mostly she knows the stories and the ideas rather than followed the religion.  My dad wasn't really brought up with religion, and since my mom hated going to sunday school so much, she decided that whether we ended up being religious or not, she wasn't going to force it on us and bring us up with it.  So my entire family is basically either not religious, or at least not very.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Eli on October 10, 2011, 05:09:33 PM
I was going to delete that before anyone read it, but you got me. Stupid post is stupid  :-Sarcasm

I'm surprised so many atheists there are here, for some reason I never thought of it.
Well this is the internet. They are more common here than in a physical community.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alec Furtado on October 10, 2011, 05:49:51 PM
I like what my computer engineering professor said today (it's suuuuper weird how we even got onto the topic, don't worry about it):

I'm agnostic, and I'm not even sure about that.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: hfksla on October 10, 2011, 05:54:32 PM
I like what my computer engineering professor said today (it's suuuuper weird how we even got onto the topic, don't worry about it):

I'm agnostic, and I'm not even sure about that.
The thing with being agnostic is it's still a type of opinion on religion.
I'd just like it to be a possibility to not be attached to anything that has to do with religion. Not anti or pro, just nothing.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 10, 2011, 09:17:32 PM
I like what my computer engineering professor said today (it's suuuuper weird how we even got onto the topic, don't worry about it):

I'm agnostic, and I'm not even sure about that.
I can't stand on the fence like that.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ian Simonson on October 10, 2011, 10:14:06 PM
I can't stand on the fence like that.

Agnostics = Atheists without balls  ;D that was what my friends kept telling me when I was actually agnostic.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: jaycee on October 10, 2011, 10:28:26 PM
If I had a real, compelling reason to follow any one religion, I'd do it. But there's hundreds, if not thousands of them out there, they all claim to be The One, and I can't find any logical reason why any of them is any true-er than the others. I was raised Catholic, homeschooled, then shipped off to a Catholic college. I left because most of the people I knew in college I knew weren't focused on being good people, they focused on judging other people and on how much better they were than the people who weren't Catholic and Catholics who went to "less devout" schools. I know there are many Catholics/Christians who aren't like that (which is how I consider everyone here :P), and those are the people where I can say "I don't agree with you, but I respect your living your life according to good principles."

I do my genuine best to be a good guy, help other people as much as I can, and so on. If God, or Allah, or whomever you prefer is as merciful and understanding as everyone claims He/She is, then I expect that if He/She exists, he'll understand that and judge me accordingly once I die.

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." - Marcus Aurelius
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Shamas on October 11, 2011, 04:27:50 AM
Agnostics = Atheists without balls  ;D that was what my friends kept telling me when I was actually agnostic.

That's completely ignorant. If you choose to support the possibility or highly likely probability of intelligent design then you are simply a type of scientist. Just because you do not claim to know what it is or its name doesn't mean you have no balls. It means you choose not to make wild claims that you're unsure of. Atheists do not believe in gods, deities, religion, or anything really. This takes its own unique brand of faith, which is borderline/if not utterly ironic.
I am not bashing Atheists or Agnostics or any religions. I am however defending a person's right to be agnostic without persecution.
Agnostics have just as much faith as a religious person or an atheist. It is just differed. They indeed have balls. Or whatever you want to refer to it as.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ian Simonson on October 11, 2011, 08:40:26 AM
Shamas, I'm basically agnostic, so I was making fun of myself a bit, I do that a lot, sorry if that offended you.  I don't actually believe they don't have balls, it's just a common joke.  Ignorant...yes.  Funny? at times.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 11, 2011, 08:47:22 AM
Agnostics = Atheists without balls  ;D that was what my friends kept telling me when I was actually agnostic.
Why do you capitalize the word "atheist"? There is no guy named "Athe".
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 11, 2011, 08:59:47 AM
That's completely ignorant. If you choose to support the possibility or highly likely probability of intelligent design then you are simply a type of scientist. Just because you do not claim to know what it is or its name doesn't mean you have no balls. It means you choose not to make wild claims that you're unsure of. Atheists do not believe in gods, deities, religion, or anything really. This takes its own unique brand of faith, which is borderline/if not utterly ironic.
I am not bashing Atheists or Agnostics or any religions. I am however defending a person's right to be agnostic without persecution.
Agnostics have just as much faith as a religious person or an atheist. It is just differed. They indeed have balls. Or whatever you want to refer to it as.
Woah dog.

First of all, believing in "intelligent design" doesn't make you a "type of scientist". That's stupid. Intelligent design isn't any form of science at all. And not because I don't think it is but because it doesn't follow scientific principals. A scientific theory is supported by extensive research and repeated experimentation and observation in the natural world. Unlike a true scientific theory, the existence of an “intelligent” agent can not be tested, nor is it falsifiable. Since it cannot adhere to following the scientific theory as actual scientific theories can, it is therefore not science.

There's no faith involved in atheism. I always assume the worst so I will always be prepared. While I do find the majority of religious texts to not be for me, at the same time a large part of me no believing in a god comes from the fact that if I do not live my life assuming there is one, I will always have to compensate for it. I live life as if there is no reward after death, and it will be a life well lived.

ALSO, for all Christian's here on out that will try and use the "atheism is a religion too" stance:
If atheism is a religion, not collecting stamps is a hobby. In addition, atheism has no sacred texts, no tenets, no ceremonies, no prophets, etc. So please stop calling it one.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Shamas on October 11, 2011, 09:20:55 AM
Shamas, I'm basically agnostic, so I was making fun of myself a bit, I do that a lot, sorry if that offended you.  I don't actually believe they don't have balls, it's just a common joke.  Ignorant...yes.  Funny? at times.
I am not offended, bud. I was just clarifying.

Why do you capitalize the word "atheist"? There is no guy named "Athe".
Awesome.
You may capitalize if it is a noun/group. For instance, Republicans. Seeing as how PEOPLE make up the noun, it is legit. Calm down there, guy.

Woah dog.

First of all, believing in "intelligent design" doesn't make you a "type of scientist". That's stupid. Intelligent design isn't any form of science at all. And not because I don't think it is but because it doesn't follow scientific principals. A scientific theory is supported by extensive research and repeated experimentation and observation in the natural world. Unlike a true scientific theory, the existence of an “intelligent” agent can not be tested, nor is it falsifiable. Since it cannot adhere to following the scientific theory as actual scientific theories can, it is therefore not science.

There's no faith involved in atheism. I always assume the worst so I will always be prepared. While I do find the majority of religious texts to not be for me, at the same time a large part of me no believing in a god comes from the fact that if I do not live my life assuming there is one, I will always have to compensate for it. I live life as if there is no reward after death, and it will be a life well lived.

ALSO, for all Christian's here on out that will try and use the "atheism is a religion too" stance:
If atheism is a religion, not collecting stamps is a hobby. In addition, atheism has no sacred texts, no tenets, no ceremonies, no prophets, etc. So please stop calling it one.
Alright there, guy. Why don't you take a step back for a minute.

#1 No one is attacking you or your beliefs.

#2 You may be a scientist and allow the theory of Intelligent Design. This is a scientific preference, thus you may be an agnostic and be a scientist. Furthermore, it is argued among scientists that rebuking the very notion of intelligent design and shunning it from main stream scientific study is neglecting the very foundation of what a scientist is. A person who asks questions. Research to prove what is. Seeing as how they have not disproved the theory, it will stand. Even if they are unable to prove it or disprove it, it is a theory to be recognized as a part of true science.

#3 There is no religion involved in atheism. There is a strong belief in it however, also referred to as faith. You have faith in your belief that there is nothing there. You can call it strong conviction or what have you, it is all the same.

#4 Your "laying the law" about 'atheism is a religion too' argument was unnecessary and shows that you have some resentment concerning this discussion. You might not want to fly off the hinges anytime someone has something to say.

#5 This is not a thread of who is right and who is wrong. Remember that when you respond to posts.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alec Furtado on October 11, 2011, 10:26:47 AM
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif)

Misinterpreted hostility is misinterpreted.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 11, 2011, 11:26:55 AM
I am not offended, bud. I was just clarifying.
Awesome.
You may capitalize if it is a noun/group. For instance, Republicans. Seeing as how PEOPLE make up the noun, it is legit. Calm down there, guy.
Alright there, guy. Why don't you take a step back for a minute.

#1 No one is attacking you or your beliefs.

#2 You may be a scientist and allow the theory of Intelligent Design. This is a scientific preference, thus you may be an agnostic and be a scientist. Furthermore, it is argued among scientists that rebuking the very notion of intelligent design and shunning it from main stream scientific study is neglecting the very foundation of what a scientist is. A person who asks questions. Research to prove what is. Seeing as how they have not disproved the theory, it will stand. Even if they are unable to prove it or disprove it, it is a theory to be recognized as a part of true science.

#3 There is no religion involved in atheism. There is a strong belief in it however, also referred to as faith. You have faith in your belief that there is nothing there. You can call it strong conviction or what have you, it is all the same.

#4 Your "laying the law" about 'atheism is a religion too' argument was unnecessary and shows that you have some resentment concerning this discussion. You might not want to fly off the hinges anytime someone has something to say.

#5 This is not a thread of who is right and who is wrong. Remember that when you respond to posts.
Wait what? I wasn't getting mad. What Alec said.

1st bold: Wait wut. Lol. There is no "scientific preference". There is no philosophy of what is science or isn't. Science is hard facts. Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. There are no preferences for what is science.

2nd bold: Sources please. But this also seems to be leaning into a "science philosophy" stance.

3rd bold: Did you not just read what I wrote above? If you can't prove or disprove it, it's does not follow the scientific method nor does it create a scientific theory. How can it be science? iIntelligent design is, for lack of better wording, an argument from ignorance. It relies on a lack of knowledge for its conclusion: lacking a natural explanation for certain specific aspects of evolution, we assume intelligent cause. Most scientists and people would reply that the unexplained is not unexplainable, and that "we don't know yet" is a more appropriate response than invoking a cause outside science.

4th bold: Again. wut. To believe the creation story requires faith because there is insufficient evidence to support the belief. Most Christians readily acknowledge this and do not see it as a problem. If ample evidence existed, faith would not be necessary. In fact, it would be entirely irrelevant. The mountains of evidence supporting the naturalistic worldview are undeniable, even by most Christians. One needs no faith the accept gravity, evolution, or many other basic scientific concepts. No faith is needed to accept naturalism; considerable faith is required to argue for any alternative. An atheist is one who does not accept the theistic belief claim (i.e., a god or gods exist). The theist accepts this claim on faith; the atheist in unwilling to do so. The atheist need to argue that no gods do (or could) exist. The atheistic position is simply that the theist has not met an acceptable burden of proof that is his or hers to meet. In other words, an atheist is an atheist precisely because he or she is not willing to accept the theist's claim on faith.

5th bold: Yeah I do. Because when people start to get into the "faith" thing as explained above, that is always the next argument to follow.

6th: You don't know that. I made the thread. trolololol.

Nah but seriously, you're right. But I'm not arguing who is right or wrong about wether there is a god or not. It comes down to you can't prove it either way 100%. I'm just trying explain why what YOU believe about MY beliefs is obviously incorrect.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 11, 2011, 11:38:07 AM
It was painful trying to force myself to watch the whole thing. But in all honesty, it's not completely shocking to me. It's not common to run into that level of misconception in Utah, but go south, to the bible belt, and things get real crazy real fast.

It's ridiculously easy to get the dudes on bikes over to give you one. Fill this out: http://mormon.org/free-book-of-mormon/ (http://mormon.org/free-book-of-mormon/) and they'll be at your house within a week or two. I'm not trying to push anything. That video thing just... well, it's not happy watching your own religion being defamed by such ridiculous falsehoods, especially if people are just taking it as truth.

Srs question.

Those dudes on bicycles....


....are they trained to kill?
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Shamas on October 11, 2011, 11:48:50 AM
Wait what? I wasn't getting mad. What Alec said.

1st bold: Wait wut. Lol. There is no "scientific preference". There is no philosophy of what is science or isn't. Science is hard facts. Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. There are no preferences for what is science.

2nd bold: Sources please. But this also seems to be leaning into a "science philosophy" stance.

3rd bold: Did you not just read what I wrote above? If you can't prove or disprove it, it's does not follow the scientific method nor does it create a scientific theory. How can it be science? iIntelligent design is, for lack of better wording, an argument from ignorance. It relies on a lack of knowledge for its conclusion: lacking a natural explanation for certain specific aspects of evolution, we assume intelligent cause. Most scientists and people would reply that the unexplained is not unexplainable, and that "we don't know yet" is a more appropriate response than invoking a cause outside science.

4th bold: Again. wut. To believe the creation story requires faith because there is insufficient evidence to support the belief. Most Christians readily acknowledge this and do not see it as a problem. If ample evidence existed, faith would not be necessary. In fact, it would be entirely irrelevant. The mountains of evidence supporting the naturalistic worldview are undeniable, even by most Christians. One needs no faith the accept gravity, evolution, or many other basic scientific concepts. No faith is needed to accept naturalism; considerable faith is required to argue for any alternative. An atheist is one who does not accept the theistic belief claim (i.e., a god or gods exist). The theist accepts this claim on faith; the atheist in unwilling to do so. The atheist need to argue that no gods do (or could) exist. The atheistic position is simply that the theist has not met an acceptable burden of proof that is his or hers to meet. In other words, an atheist is an atheist precisely because he or she is not willing to accept the theist's claim on faith.

5th bold: Yeah I do. Because when people start to get into the "faith" thing as explained above, that is always the next argument to follow.

6th: You don't know that. I made the thread. trolololol.

Nah but seriously, you're right. But I'm not arguing who is right or wrong about wether there is a god or not. It comes down to you can't prove it either way 100%. I'm just trying explain why what YOU believe about MY beliefs is obviously incorrect.
Right on, man. Well, I won't get into this further here. I will accept your retort and offer a friendly conversation via PM if you're interest. If not, cool
Also, it was completely my bad for misinterpreting hostility.

Srs question.

Those dudes on bicycles....


....are they trained to kill?
Does this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYKx4cfx4Mw) answer your question?
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ryan Sannar on October 11, 2011, 12:22:13 PM
Not as part of the missionary training no.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ian Simonson on October 11, 2011, 02:10:34 PM
Not as part of the missionary training no.

But as part of their assassination training yes  ;D
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ryan Sannar on October 11, 2011, 03:27:38 PM
No. In fact that is why missionaries are killed. With the Christian ideals of turn the other cheek and no self defense training occassionally a missionary is killed. This is normally a hate crime. However despite the fact that many missionaries are tracting in areas that are considered highly dangerous, both inside and outside of the United States, this doesn't occur often.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ian Simonson on October 11, 2011, 03:37:28 PM
Did not realize that  :o . Lot of respect then, that takes an insane amount of commitment.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alex Patterson on October 11, 2011, 03:55:53 PM
Oh I don't think I could be a missionary.  I didn't become a member till I wwas 29. So that's past the age.

But I have tons of respect for them.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ryan Sannar on October 11, 2011, 07:29:54 PM
Thank you for realizing that it is a sacrifice. Most people don't realize that these young men pay out of their own pocket (currently its at $10,000) to go on a mission. Most of the time the family will assist, when that is not possible the Church pulls from a missionary fund that members choose to donate to seperate from their tithe. These young (the general cut off point is 25 years old) men are called to serve in other states and countries with no prior knowledge and around 2 months advanced notice. Where those who are called 3rd world countries experience near dibilitating disease, injuries, and dangerous situations. Regardless almost all missionaries experience prejudice, threats and rejection.

Those who request service they serve, regardless of whether or not they share the same faith.

During this time they do not date, leave their companions side (missionaries are assigned a single companion in each area they serve in, this can vary over the average 2 year length of a mission to around 6-8 companions), drink, smoke, or stop working.
1 day out of every week they are given a preparation day in which they do laundry, clean, shop, etc... occassionally they have time for entertainiment.

And most missionaries you ask and they say its not a sacrifice. That its is the best experience of their life.

For more detailed info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_(LDS_Church)
Its relatively accurate.

Now I'm not trying to raise them up. I just want people to see the other side of things. I'm not saying that this religion is the right one. Or that any religion is right. Maybe there is no intelligent design, maybe there is. That is up to you to decide.

But don't just critize people until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

Also I get the joking, but I think it should come after we have a reasonable understanding of those who do what they do. From their own mouths. It is so aggrivating and disappointing having someone else tell you what you believe.

I appreciate Kyle's side, he has read the Bible, Quoran, etc..... that is more than most would do. Props bro. BTW if you are serious about getting a Book of Mormon (no pressure at all dude, you can get a pdf copy online at www.mormon.org or www.lds.org, or request a copy mailed to you/delivered by missionaries.

No pressure. Not pushing my or anyone else's beliefs on anyone, just making sure my beliefs and practices are understood.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Josh Boggs on October 11, 2011, 07:39:15 PM
Why do you capitalize the word "atheist"? There is no guy named "Athe".
Hahaha. One of the silliest things I've heard in a while.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kimberly Heuer on October 11, 2011, 07:55:16 PM
Srs question.

Those dudes on bicycles....


....are they trained to kill?

Completely not serious answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90SpWifnHFA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90SpWifnHFA) (BTW: Eli - this is an example of a video meant to be funny. The one Kyle was asking about has nothing funny, joking, or harmless about it). But just to be clear: Nothing in this video is accurate or realistic in what missions are or how we view them. This was just made for a laugh.

Serious Answer: Ryan posted all anyone would want to know about missionaries before I could get my post up.
But I do want to clarify that it is not just men who serve missions. Women can choose to do so as well, if they feel it is right for them. Only difference is women can't go until they're 21 (men can go as early as 19), and only serve for 18 months (instead of 24). I'm actually seriously considering on serving a mission myself, perhaps leaving even this summer.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: jaycee on October 11, 2011, 08:00:21 PM
I like Mormons a lot - generally, I find them to be some of the friendliest, most genuine people you're likely to come across. (My roommate in basic training was a Mormon, he was the guy who spent pretty much all his free time helping everyone else get ready for inspections and whatnot.)

That said, I'm not a huge fan of the church itself (largely due to their efforts to block gay marriage.)
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Shamas on October 12, 2011, 04:07:55 AM
After high school I helped a collective of a Michigan non-denom Christian church and one from Iowa do a missionary trip to Mexico. I speak Spanish so it was an experience being a youth leader, training to be a youth pastor, and reaching out to people in a different environment while trying to utilize my newly acquire 4yrs of high school Spanish. It was interesting.

The most important thing I gained from the experience is that you don't need to fly to a different country to reach people. It is better (in my experience) to reach the under privileged around you by doing great deeds and not pushing religion on them. Living by example will effect the end result of their choices minutely or largely. Either way, it is by gaining this momentum that we can work from the inner circles to the outer in an attempt to better the world around us by showing genuine humanitarian behavior.

I don't know if anyone has ever done missionary work and had the same revelation or different ones. I would love to hear about it, no matter what faction you're from.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Eli on October 12, 2011, 11:22:23 AM
Completely not serious answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90SpWifnHFA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90SpWifnHFA) (BTW: Eli - this is an example of a video meant to be funny. The one Kyle was asking about has nothing funny, joking, or harmless about it). But just to be clear: Nothing in this video is accurate or realistic in what missions are or how we view them. This was just made for a laugh.

Serious Answer: Ryan posted all anyone would want to know about missionaries before I could get my post up.
But I do want to clarify that it is not just men who serve missions. Women can choose to do so as well, if they feel it is right for them. Only difference is women can't go until they're 21 (men can go as early as 19), and only serve for 18 months (instead of 24). I'm actually seriously considering on serving a mission myself, perhaps leaving even this summer.
....ahem, it seems I may have made a...er, slight error saying I thought it was a poke before. I had assumed kyle linked the south park episode about mormonism. My mistake.  :-[
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Ryan Sannar on October 12, 2011, 02:05:55 PM
No the link was to something that directly attacked the religion, not made fun of it. Unless I missed a post?
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 12, 2011, 03:39:45 PM
No I just linked the book of mormon cartoon.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: superdude88 on October 16, 2011, 07:23:00 AM
I am christian and I can't think of anything else to say
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Kyle Rudolph on October 16, 2011, 09:58:28 AM
I am christian and I can't think of anything else to say
You're 12 though. I don't think I even really thought about this stuff until I turned like 14-15.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: superdude88 on October 16, 2011, 01:52:42 PM
I decided my self to get babtised
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alec Furtado on October 16, 2011, 03:53:54 PM
I'm sure superdude understands that the way he thinks will adapt and evolve over time.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Shamas on October 17, 2011, 04:08:20 AM
Yeah, comparing what you were interested in and getting involved in at your earlier age doesn't necessarily set the bar for what he should/would be doing. I think you know that.

All of our opinions and thought processes will adapt and evolve no matter what age we are, as long as we continue to allow ourselves to mature.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Nick Fernandez on October 17, 2011, 07:15:13 PM

All of our opinions and thought processes will adapt and evolve no matter what age we are, as long as we continue to allow ourselves to mature.

I think this is totally true, at moments I feel like I've become grown up and responsible while everyone around me is still ignorant to how everything really is. I'm only a freshman in high school, so I know what it's like trying to be around people that haven't made the transition out of elementary school.
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Hazim Salem on October 17, 2011, 07:17:11 PM
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png)
Title: Re: Religion
Post by: Alec Furtado on October 17, 2011, 07:42:47 PM
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png)
Haha I've contemplated this dynamic many a time... great pic.