American Parkour Forum

Parkour and Freerunning => Pics & Vids => Topic started by: Matthew Lee Willis on December 08, 2005, 07:39:31 AM

Title: Texas News Story
Post by: Matthew Lee Willis on December 08, 2005, 07:39:31 AM
Recently on Austin TV stations there was an airing of a documentory of parkour with our group as the enthusiests.  I hope you enjoy the advert.

http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=41827 (http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=41827)
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 08, 2005, 10:29:54 AM
Something I realized after watching this is that I keep calling it "Le parkour" and no onle esle does. I have no idea why I did that.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Kipup on December 08, 2005, 12:40:12 PM
Nice man, there's some good footage there. It's awsome that you guys got the publicity!
Keep it up.

 - Kipup
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 11, 2005, 06:33:53 PM
hm.... time for me to live up to my "honorary frenchman" on the va-parkour boards:

it wasn't represented as well as it could have been. it seemed that people were just trying to go big for the cameras. whenever the media is present, you need to make sure to only do things that you have done many times before and have no thought that you might not make it. if you fall, they will air it. unfortuneatly, many people are gonna see this and have the attitude of "not in my backyard". they saw the one guy fall, and all the flips make people not want to have anything to do with it because "someone might break their neck". just so you know, flips aren't part of parkour. i mean, don't get me wrong, flips are fine, just when you are explaining parkour to the media, don't use them because it is not a part of it.  just remember, the news will try to make anything look bad. if there is a way to make something look like a threat, they will find it. don't give them the chance. notice how they called it an "underground sport". yuck. sorry to be an ass, but no one else was saying anything.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Parkourdan on December 11, 2005, 08:19:11 PM
Whoever was the one doing those drops...  :-\
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Alex Steadman on December 11, 2005, 09:16:29 PM
Well that was a lot better than our news story haha. 

Pretty cool stuff there.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Matthew Lee Willis on December 11, 2005, 09:43:35 PM
Klaymen...Shutup.  I am tired of that dumb flip debate.  Save it...and read a message board or two.  I.E. My posts...If you want to talk about flips then go talk about it on the PARKOUR boards.  Actually there were able 4 of us doing the big drop.  We are all use to the drops.  There is one guy that doesnt lad the best and we dont encourage him to drop from any hight, are we going to stop him though?  I dont even know if it shows him doing a bad roll.  The news.  Come on they had to find someone doing something "bad" so they could say that it was dangerous.  Obviously, it was on a hight about a foot from the ground.  If you notice...it wasent the same guys doing the runs and the big skills.  It was just some guys hanging out to get on video.

WE gave them all the interviews that we could.  If they wanted to call it an underground sport i guess thats them...although of course we talked about how long its been in the US and in the UK.  Alex...can you send me a link to your VID?
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Sam Slater on December 11, 2005, 10:38:59 PM
Matthew, I think you need to calm down.  You are reacting a little to personally to the comments made by Klaymen. He brought up some good points that were not meant to be harsh, but were for both your benefit and the benefit of any other individuals who might be approached by the media.  It is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to brining attention to this art, especially when it is in its fledgling stages here in the United States.  That point made, I would also like to comment that for someone who frequents the boards as frequently as Klaymen does, to assume that he has not read or was not aware of your posts and topics on flips was rather pompous, and the way you invited him to read about your posts was rude and uncalled for.  Anyone who has been in the on-line Parkour community has been a part of or at least seen people discuss the topic of flips in Parkour.  Personally it seems to me that this "flip debate" is not really a debate.  When the originator of an art states that despite his use of acrobatics (flips) they are not considered "Le Parkour" then I would have to say that debating the topic is pointless personally.  It is for that reason that FRPK was created, for lack of a better word, by those running the Urban Freeflow website.  Therefor I am inclined to agree that a distinction must be made when speaking with the media.  In regards to your comment on telling one of your training partners that he could not do a certain drop, which from watching the video it seemed he shouldn't have, it would be in the best interest of the art for any practitioners to be sure that their friends did not perform any techniques for the media if those techniques and the images of them can be viewed as harmful.  If you are going to show someone fall, or if someone does during an interview, then show them how to perform the technique properly while the camera is still filming.  While the image may still be used, as you put it, to illustrate the danger of the art, the images of fellow practitioners taking the time to ensure others safety could speak volumes about the care and consideration taken within the Parkour community.  I am also shocked that you allowed other individuals who do not commonly practice Parkour to come to an open filming as there is obviously an elevated risk when they are practicing.  They will feel more pressure to do something that they are not prepared for than an avid traceur, especially if it could get them on television.  Yes, the spill shown was nothing too bad, i agree with you there, however its existence in the promotion of Parkour is counter productive to introducing the art to the community in a more positive light.

I apologise for taking up space on this tread on this topic, as I would applaud you for the piece and your attempt to advance Parkour in the eyes of the public, however when you decide to take an aggressive stance towards any constructive criticism that would not only help you in the future, but help others as they are approached by local media, I feel that something has to be said.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Rafe on December 12, 2005, 12:50:01 AM
To be honest Mathew it comes down to this if you are going continue to misrepresent parkour your going to get flamed for it. That little news story is exactly what I don't want to see in parkour peice, it started with wall spin, had tons of flips with no explanation of the fact their not part of the art, had stupidly high drops, no mention of david belle, no mention of efficiency.  If your not interested in actual parkour thats fine but don't call what you do what you represent parkour when its clearly not, call it Free running, or Yamakasi, or 3run or if you have to FRPK, but if you representing FRPK don't forget the Freestyle or your misleading people. 
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Brian Belida on December 12, 2005, 07:25:26 AM
Klaymen...Shutup.  I am tired of that dumb flip debate.  Save it...and read a message board or two.  I.E. My posts...If you want to talk about flips then go talk about it on the PARKOUR boards.

I'm not even sure what that means? But if you're implying that you know that flips are not parkour, then why represent it thusly? I know other people have said that already, but I was just a bit confused by what you meant there.

And Matthew, before you get very defensive and respond to Disciple's and Faelcind's posts with a "shutup," you have to understand where we're coming from. I know it's easy to get caught up in the media spotlight, and I wouldn't be surpirsed if the reporter or cameraman were asking you to do flips and big drops, but if you want to represent parkour well you have to put your foot down. Explain to them what it is and what the purpose is, explain to them what it isn't. I think that parkour in it's purist form is ten fold more exciting than any kind of single-move big drops and any kind of tricking. And when done correctly can look incredible for the camera, if that was of any worry for you.

You've been around the APK forums pretty much since they came about, so I know you've seen how much effort we put into clearing the debate [and as Disciple put it, it's not really a debate] about what is and isn't parkour. And the reason you're getting responses to this that have been less than friendly is because that news piece has undone a little of what we were working towards. So, as you're bound to get some more media attention after the airing of this news piece, I advocate that if more media does come your way, take some time to formulate thoughts that you want to touch on, explain what parkour is and isn't. I know that we all here would be more than willing to help formulate some sentences and paragraphs and entire thoughts to help you out if you need it. Parkour, when described correctly and vividly, is a beautiful and inspiring thing.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 12, 2005, 08:40:00 AM
Klaymen...Shutup.  I am tired of that dumb flip debate.  Save it...and read a message board or two.  I.E. My posts...If you want to talk about flips then go talk about it on the PARKOUR boards.  Actually there were able 4 of us doing the big drop.  We are all use to the drops.  There is one guy that doesnt lad the best and we dont encourage him to drop from any hight, are we going to stop him though?  I dont even know if it shows him doing a bad roll.  The news.  Come on they had to find someone doing something "bad" so they could say that it was dangerous.  Obviously, it was on a hight about a foot from the ground.  If you notice...it wasent the same guys doing the runs and the big skills.  It was just some guys hanging out to get on video.

WE gave them all the interviews that we could.  If they wanted to call it an underground sport i guess thats them...although of course we talked about how long its been in the US and in the UK.  Alex...can you send me a link to your VID?


http://www.americanparkour.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=224&Itemid=1 (http://www.americanparkour.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=224&Itemid=1)

i know the media misrepresenting some things can't be helped at times, that was more of just a statement to everyone who goes on the news. just to make sure that you give the news as little chance to spin thins wrong. and when people see flips and see you talking about parkour, they naturally assume that flips are a big part. i wasn't trying to piss anyone off. i was just trying to inform in the nicest way i could.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 12, 2005, 10:25:08 AM
The news story was for people who have never heard of parkour. What are we supposed to say "we practise parkour but there is a dumb ass bickering of its practicioners and so we technically practise a subdivision of pk called freestyle pk."  I think that would be even more foolish than what klaman has posted on these boards. Oh an f#ck you for thinking we need help to formulate sentences and paragraphs on parkour because we do describe properly and effectively. Obviously we wish we have a half on hour to get out point across but in the 2 minutes if air time, I think it's pretty damn good!
 We did not edit the news story, THE NEWS PEOPLE DID! so none of that was up to us. ( I hate that it shows a stupid fall too.)

Can anyone show me an example of freestyle parkour that does not have a flip in it? Seriously, send a link or wantever if you have one)    freestyle is accepted as a new part of parkour and freestyle MEANS flips and such. freestyle IS flips and aerials and such.

Has anyone here emailed cyrill Raffelli, Belle, Blue Devil, Kerby (when he was part of the team)and much much more and told them that what they do is not parkour?  ...didn't think so.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 12, 2005, 10:40:41 AM
The news story was for people who have never heard of parkour. What are we supposed to say "we practise parkour but there is a dumb ass bickering of its practicioners and so we technically practise a subdivision of pk called freestyle pk."  I think that would be even more foolish than what klaman has posted on these boards. Oh an f#ck you for thinking we need help to formulate sentences and paragraphs on parkour because we do describe properly and effectively. Obviously we wish we have a half on hour to get out point across but in the 2 minutes if air time, I think it's pretty damn good!
 We did not edit the news story, THE NEWS PEOPLE DID! so none of that was up to us. ( I hate that it shows a stupid fall too.)

Can anyone show me an example of freestyle parkour that does not have a flip in it? Seriously, send a link or wantever if you have one)    freestyle is accepted as a new part of parkour and freestyle MEANS flips and such. freestyle IS flips and aerials and such.

Has anyone here emailed cyrill Raffelli, Belle, Blue Devil, Kerby (when he was part of the team)and much much more and told them that what they do is not parkour?  ...didn't think so.

yes, i said in my post that some things you can't control with the news. if you don't want to explain the difference of frpk and parkour, just say free running. also, david belle says that flips aren't parkour. and cyrill raffelli isn't a traceur, he is a gymnast. i think you should watch this video. you may have seen it before, but this time it is translated. http://parkour.net/videos/014-Report_TF1_Interview_David-BELLE_Yamakasi_EN_Parkour.NET.zip (http://parkour.net/videos/014-Report_TF1_Interview_David-BELLE_Yamakasi_EN_Parkour.NET.zip)
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 12, 2005, 11:00:40 AM
true backs flips are not part of traditional pk. you have to stop, turn around, then jump and you have stopped the flow. That is not true with a running front flip or aerials down stairs. DId someone stop their flow and then flip? I don't think so.

Yes, I have seen that david b. clip. He does not say anything about freestyle parkour so it doesn't really fit into the senario at hand. Maybe if this was the first day freestyle pk came out, but this is not a new issue! **wake up slap**

Corndogg posted some awesome "work pk" shots. the first one was a palmspin. not one of the people who constantly jump our cases commented on how "thats's not parkour" I have no idea why we are the chosen target. I like the pics and consider him a brother of the same art.

when cyrill and david do techniques outdoors they call it outdoor gymnastics as they go on runs with vaults and flips and such?
Show me where it says they call it that.

klayman-why does it help you sleep betterat night to know that we call what we do "free running" or "freestyle parkour" instead of "parkour"?
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 12, 2005, 11:06:11 AM
true backs flips are not part of traditional pk. you have to stop, turn around, then jump and you have stopped the flow. That is not true with a running front flip or aerials down stairs. DId someone stop their flow and then flip? I don't think so.

Yes, I have seen that david b. clip. He does not say anything about freestyle parkour so it doesn't really fit into the senario at hand. Maybe if this was the first day freestyle pk came out, but this is not a new issue! **wake up slap**

Corndogg posted some awesome "work pk" shots. the first one was a palmspin. not one of the people who constantly jump our cases commented on how "thats's not parkour" I have no idea why we are the chosen target. I like the pics and consider him a brother of the same art.

when cyrill and david do techniques outdoors they call it outdoor gymnastics as they go on runs with vaults and flips and such?
Show me where it says they call it that.

klayman-why does it help you sleep betterat night to know that we call what we do "free running" or "freestyle parkour" instead of "parkour"?


yes, many people just say frpk is just a bunch of random crap thrown together. it is a mixture of tricking, breakdancing, gymnastics, and movements of parkour. and as for why i don't like it being called parkour. it is the same reason people don't want street fighting to be called akido. it just isn't the same thing at all. true, they may look very similar at times, but they aren't.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 12, 2005, 11:25:16 AM
Klayman- I am assuming that you consider yourself to be a pratcitioner of "parkour." I just went to page 2 of the vids and watched your clip. the VERY FIRST thing you do is climb a fence and then hold a flag stance then it cuts out. Do you seriously think that is part of traditional parkour? Maybe someone is being a bit hypocritical.

(on a side note:  I do like your vid. The music and general feel were good. I just wish you weren't hating on my group so much.)
and I know it's not really "hate" persay more than misguided attempt to keep a sport in a certain light or direction, but you are guilty of whatever accusations you made towards us so just get over it.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Rafe on December 12, 2005, 12:36:58 PM
Deft FRPK is not an accepted sub division of parkour! Thats the problem with it. Freestyle parkour is as much a subsect of parkour as gymnastics is sub sect of martial arts but because UFF had to keep using the world parkour people are being mislead. Your still bound up in misconceptions about what parkour means from UFF. Parkour is not defined by flow. A tumbling run can flow its not parkour if it scarificies speed and efficiency.

If you don't understand parkour, and haven't done the research to understand it please don't try and represent it.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Matthew Lee Willis on December 12, 2005, 12:45:49 PM
*sits down and waits for the first blow*

"GET EM DEFT!"

*opens bag of popcorn "

*this is getting good"*

Klaymen kind of hit a sore spot at first but...I don’t care to much now...I’m getting use to arguing with people about this...even though most of them just don’t want to agree.  You know for every 5 people that blast this comment I get one person that adds me to their MSN Messenger and tells me that they agree with what Deft and I are trying to represent and its no good trying to argue on the boards.  It is sad that this happens...I tell them to go out and speak but it seems like Deft and I are the only ones that will fight for movement that can be practiced in many different ways.

Disciple...are you a disciple of Parkour?  Thank you Deft for making the comment about the video and how we don’t need people to talk for us...I understand that it was a nice gesture but it was disrespectful...just like it was disrespectful for me to tell klaymen to shut up.  This is a vid and we long know that almost every vid on here has somewhat non Parkour elements in them.  Our vid never showed us eating or riding a bike...it was always movement.  Jump London was presented to the world as free running and now even SEB considers himself to be a Traceur and does Parkour.  He had flips and An EXTREAMLY high drop when he advertised it.  We didn’t have anything near that height.  Also we encourage new comers to come to the jams always.  We figured that the news team could show some of the simple things that even the beginners could do.  lol like get hurt, j/k but seriously we wanted the whole mix to be there.

Overall this is not where the flips slash FRPK and TRPK and Free Running and Street Climb should be discussed.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Asa Liebmann on December 12, 2005, 01:08:46 PM
Deft and Matt, everyone has been very nice to you, and you have done nothing but abused them. So let me tell you, honestly, that I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

The fact that you are willing to argue to the death things that are false, and attack people in retaliation to an imagined attack (not to mention your complete disregard of the fact that these people are working so hard to help you) is disgusting.

You tell klaymen to "shut up [...] and read a message board or two." Well I think it's you who needs to do the reading.

Quote
The news story was for people who have never heard of parkour. What are we supposed to say "we practise parkour but there is a dumb ass bickering of its practitioners and so we technically practise a subdivision of pk called freestyle pk."

Based on that comment alone, I can safely say that you have no room to argue about Parkour.

Quote
Can anyone show me an example of freestyle parkour that does not have a flip in it? Seriously, send a link or wantever if you have one)    freestyle is accepted as a new part of parkour and freestyle MEANS flips and such. freestyle IS flips and aerials and such.

For such an avid freerunner, you have no understanding of the activity that you claim to practice.

Quote
Has anyone here emailed Cyrill Raffelli, Belle, Blue Devil, Kerby (when he was part of the team)and much much more and told them that what they do is not parkour?  ...didn't think so.

Hahahaha

Quote
true backs flips are not part of traditional pk. you have to stop, turn around, then jump and you have stopped the flow. That is not true with a running front flip or aerials down stairs. Did someone stop their flow and then flip? I don't think so.

There is no such thing as Traditional Parkour. There is only Parkour and Not Parkour.

Flow...    ::)   Once again, research.

Quote
Yes, I have seen that David b. clip. He does not say anything about freestyle parkour so it doesn't really fit into the scenario at hand. Maybe if this was the first day freestyle pk came out, but this is not a new issue! **wake up slap**

But you weren't talking about "freestyle" parkour on your interview, were you? You were doing an interview about Parkour. That's like doing an interview about silk and showing pictures of polyester (That is; wrong).

Quote
when Cyrill and David do techniques outdoors they call it outdoor gymnastics as they go on runs with vaults and flips and such? Show me where it says they call it that.

It's called acrobatics.

Quote
Klayman- I am assuming that you consider yourself to be a practitioner of "parkour." I just went to page 2 of the vids and watched your clip. the VERY FIRST thing you do is climb a fence and then hold a flag stance then it cuts out. Do you seriously think that is part of traditional parkour? Maybe someone is being a bit hypocritical.


It says "Parkour" nowhere in the title nor anywhere in klaymen's posts in that thread, so don't try turning it on him.


All that being said, the interview/feature wasn't bad, and contained some accurate information.

Whoever it was that was doing the wallspin, please private message me, I have a few pointers.

Note: I ran spellcheck, so don't be offended if some words in the quotes are spelled correctly now.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Asa Liebmann on December 12, 2005, 01:10:02 PM
Matt, what's TRPK? Is this something new that I missed?
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Rafe on December 12, 2005, 01:43:45 PM
Mathew if your puting a video of yourself inaccurately representing parkour up on parkour website its going to be discussed in that thread its ridiculous to expect otherwise. Your misunderstanding of parkour are so deep it hard to know were to start, you need to take your own advice and study up theres plenty of on parkour.net here and elsewere if you have specific questions please ask and more experienced traceurs will be happy to help you find the information you need.

Here is quick primer on what parkour is not
Parkour is not the art of movement(and biking and eating both involve movement to so whats you point?)
Parkour is not the art of flow
Parkour is not acrobatics in the street(thats straight from david belle)
Parkour is not whatever you want it to be(it was defined by its founder David Belle)

If you want to practice any of the above thats fine, no body is trying to take away your freedom or constrain what you do, we only want you to understand what parkour is. If you inspired by parkour but no interested in doing parkour thats fine theres plenty of other similar arts just don't call what you do parkour.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 12, 2005, 01:45:44 PM
Klayman- I am assuming that you consider yourself to be a pratcitioner of "parkour." I just went to page 2 of the vids and watched your clip. the VERY FIRST thing you do is climb a fence and then hold a flag stance then it cuts out. Do you seriously think that is part of traditional parkour? Maybe someone is being a bit hypocritical.

(on a side note:  I do like your vid. The music and general feel were good. I just wish you weren't hating on my group so much.)
and I know it's not really "hate" persay more than misguided attempt to keep a sport in a certain light or direction, but you are guilty of whatever accusations you made towards us so just get over it.

that was a training video. i also went over a rail, did a 270 cat and went back the exact same way i came from. if someone asked i wouldn't tell them it was parkour. just training which is what it was  ;)
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 12, 2005, 02:30:10 PM
Pistolwhip---whoa that's a lot of quotes. It's easy to pick at bits and such but you say nothing that leads me to change my thoughts on this sport/art.  Like your first quote and responce. That doesn't actually say where I error in your mind, but obviously you think I do. Same goes with your 2nd and 3rd quote/responce so those all served no purpose.

True, we may have coined the phrase "traditional parkour" that is only because there is definantly parkour and freestyle parkour.
I am not trying to turn anything around on kalyman but bottom line is he posted a vid where the 1st thing he did was a "freestyle move." Even if if was done in practise, it was mixed with pk moves and posted on a pk board for the audience of pk people. (sounds like the vids we post.)

I admit I do not act friendly towards someone who, after I post a vid, says something like "what you do is not pk and what you say is not pk." To me that is a slap in the face. I'm sorry I am not the better man to turn the other cheek, but I am trying to act somewhat civil and I try to reply and clearly state me thoughts to someone who is doing the same. There has been one or two to give "nice" critism and I they got nice in return. WHo has been nice and we treated poorly? We are in this "defense" mode only because WE are being attacked. 

the majority of the pics and vids (about 85%) have "frestyle" in them. Wouldn't that make the majority of the people here freestyle and not really practitioners of parkour?
If you really want I can tell you ratios and exactly how many are "true pk" and how many are not in a series of purple boxed quotes and then I can add my silly comments and laughter after each.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Steez on December 12, 2005, 02:44:08 PM
okay, i'm only going to make one statement in this thread.  promise.

speed and efficiency are two different things.

efficiency:  Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input. (this is talking about energy, or work)

speed: the rate at which something happens.

okay, imagine a railing.  this railing is extending from a wall out 4 feet in distance, it is 3 feet high.  you are traveling right beside the wall.  upon reaching the railing, you can:

A: turn , walk slowly to the end of the railing, around it, and then back to the wall before continuing

B: sprint at the railing as fast as you can and kong it

option A uses less energy to get from where you are to where you want to be (in this case, simply the other side of the railing)
thus, it is more efficient.

option B accomplishes the same goal more rapidly, yet with a greater expenditure of energy.

i just wanted to differentiate between these two terms, people seem to confuse their meanings quite a bit.  "with speed and efficiency" is often used when describing parkour, but often you must sacrifice one to gain the other.

i'll leave you to decide whether option A or B is parkour...

rant/statement over. 



Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Parkourdan on December 12, 2005, 02:48:34 PM
Quote
when cyrill and david do techniques outdoors they call it outdoor gymnastics as they go on runs with vaults and flips and such?
Show me where it says they call it that.

Hi,

When Cyril was in Toronto for the publicity for b13 .. He stated infront of the audience that he did not practice Parkour and that what him and David do are very different. He said he performs street acrobatics .. or "Street Acro" .. as he called it and it is not similar at all to Parkour.

Also,

FRPK is not an accepted part of Parkour. Sorry.

I really don't want to get into this thread... oh man.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Rafe on December 12, 2005, 03:04:29 PM
Steez parkour is both, its the best comprimise of the two as you would use in emergency situation its not hard to understand. Let say that rail is between you and burning building with your family inside are you going to want to walk around it/ run around it, no your going to want to get over it as fast as possible, however given a choice between equall fast method you will also want to choose the option that is most efficient in perserving your energy and health so that you can get into that burning building and save your family. So while jumping the rail may be as fast as vault it may be less efficient so you choose the vault, or vice versa.

Deft man you seriously need to read up a bit before you start spouting of the same arguments every one else has tried. Most peoples training videos and sampler are not pure parkour thats because its damn hard to capture pure parkour on tape, how many camera men would you need just to capture a single parkour run satisfactorially? Parkour videos are genereal samplers of the skills and training of individual traceurs allmost all of whom have skill's outside of parkour and train movements outside of parkour.

I am sure many traceurs do push ups as part of their training, nobody argues that their parkour, why cause nobody puts them in their video, why cause their allot less interesting to watch then flips or flag poles, the fact that flips and flagpoles and handsprings and handstands are more camera freindly does not make them parkour, it just means people are more likely to want to include them in their videos. 

Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Steez on December 12, 2005, 03:13:55 PM
faelcind, that was one of my points, you can't always have maximum efficiency AND speed in parkour.  they are both highly relevant to parkour, but you must strive for a balance. 

the main idea that i wanted to get across however, is that they are in fact two different things. 

you put down that idea of compromise much better than i did, however.  props.

Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Ryan Ford on December 12, 2005, 03:15:38 PM
Deft the answer to your arguement is simple. You guys are claiming what you do in your video is parkour. Its not. Klaymen did some things that werent parkour but he never said it was parkour. That is how it should be. Know what you are doing and know its appropriate title. Thats it.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Brian Belida on December 12, 2005, 03:34:52 PM
I openly offered help and suggestions, and you said "f#ck you."
This argument has been overdone by far. There are facts, and then there are people that are too stubborn and go out of there way to look for reasons to continue an argument, that [as I'll quote disciple again] isn't an argument at all.

Until I see some changes in your attitudes MatthewLeeWillis and Deft, I'm taking a step away.
Anyways, Santa Clause is outside on a firetruck. That's way better than this.

EDIT: See Demon's post, I'm outie-5000.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 12, 2005, 03:36:56 PM
Demon and whoever- Klayman never says "this is not parkour." he mentions that he trains at that spot but that's about it.  I train traditional and freestyle at the places I flow at too. That's how you learn to flow there. (I am not going to quote him or anyone w/ the purple boxes. I don't like them, I know what I/you said the first time)

NO ONE has commented on that fact that over 80% of the pics and vids here and at UFF and all the other BIG PARKOUR HUBS have "freestyle" in them. A lot of them more than our vids and such.
like corndoggs pics, the superst0ne, and ( do you really wnat to name them all. it would be easier if I named the few w/o freestyle.

If I step outside my box and assume that I am the mislead one on this matter. What I come to is : Wouldn't that mean that the majority of the UFF crew does not do parkour? This goes fot the majority of people on here too.
Is that why people broke off and started this site? If that is true, it gives me understanding of where you all are coming from.

Most of the people here who are disagreeing with me are guilty of why they accusing me of. I have posted proof of this.
I know I am starting to sound like a broken record but what else can I say?


Akh- I didn't aim that comment at you. The postwhere I cursed  was in regaurd to one has been edited so it makes me look like I get mad for no reason 'cause you can't see the match that started the fire.  Basically someone "offered help" to formutale sentences as though we are a bunch of idiots who couldn't put out thoughts together. I am sorry for those who honestly and kindly tried to share their thoughts with me and if I was rude towards any of you - for that I am TRUELY sorry. I am not sorry for getting riled up when someone tells me I can't formualte sentences. I will get mad when someone who post freestyle on the boards says my freestyle is not parkour.

(the funniest part of this debate to me is that the only "trick" I can do is a front flip or wall spin. so I am in noooooooo way a trickster by far!!)

Believe me, I never wanted to be part of a "war."  I felt attacked, so I responded. That's how it went.
We can consider this topic over but eventually I am going to post another vid and someone is going to tell me it's not parkour but in the meantime the majority of people here will post stuff with as much if not more freestyle than our vids will ever have. I WANT this to be over, bur I feel correct in my thinking and do the opposing thoughts.
Let's just agree to exist and that some people here practise traditional parkour and some practise freestyle parkour but that we all have common interests and we all crave the flow.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Sam Slater on December 12, 2005, 04:04:34 PM
Mr. Willis, I do not consider myself a Disciple of Parkour.  I am not sure where you wanted to go with that question, however I appreciate the interest in my name. I think you and Mr. Deft need to take a breath and realize that nobody is attacking you and what you do personally.  We are only attempting to help and give advice for future reference.  The discussion was not Klaymen or myself or anyone trying to put you down for what you did, because when it comes down to it, getting information out to the public is a good thing.  The only thing that worries people is when the information is not correct.  As an individual in contact with the media you do not represent only yourselves when you discuss "Parkour", but you you represent all practitioners of the art.  Yes there are subdivisions of the art or off shoots or whatever you wish to call them, and it is fine to practice them, however one must be sure that they are represented as just that.  I enjoy doing flips, however when an individual asks me about Parkour, I am careful to describe the art just as David Belle describes it on PAWA's website.  I will tell people that flips are fun, and I do them every once and a while, however they are not part of Parkour.  I might mention FRPK and tricking if the individual insists on discussing flips, but I do not want to misrepresent Parkour.  Now there is a difference between footage that is given to the public and footage that is posted here on the forums.  Most footage here, as stated is footage of people training and it is usually not labeled as purely being of Parkour.  Even if it is and the actions therein are not of Parkour, the individuals here viewing them have already hopefully done a little research around the site and begun to formulate what Parkour is. Your footage was captured for the sole purpose of being shown to the public and therefor the definition of the images there in must be a clear and precise one.  For people watching that footage on television, that could be the only thing they associate with the word Parkour.

I am not sure if you have taken any martial arts, however I can create a parallel for you using them.  Currently there is a new sport martial art called Xtreme Martial Arts or XMA.  This new sport takes the traditional martial arts and adds to them gymnastics and breakdancing motions along with fancy costumes in order to create a more entertaining, exciting, and popular spectacle for the public.  The practitioners of this sport do not however confuse the XMA with a traditional art such as Wu Shu or Tae Kwon Do or Hap Ki Do.  Despite the existence of similar movements in both the XMA and traditional Martial Arts, they are not the same thing.  To say that what is done in the XMA competitions is what all Martial arts is would be detrimental to people who practice traditional martial arts because the XMA is competition oriented and has less focus on tradition and discipline and personal development, and many martial arts don't utilize gymnastic elements. This is why people have reservations about your news article.  Misrepresentation of something is detrimental to the advancement of it, because it creates false images for the public to latch on to.  It might seem silly to tell a reporter about the division and separation between Parkour and tricking and FRPK, but it is important because if you do not tell people about it right away, you will have a harder time explaining the differences to them later on, as they will already have these ideas and images in their minds.

 In response to the on-line community not "flaming" the office parkour pictures, that is because those pictures were not circulated to the public stating "this is parkour".  If they had been then I could all but guarantee you that there would have been even more people saying that those images would be detrimental to spread of the image of Parkour because they promoted inappropriate use of private property as well as techniques that were "not parkour".

 Nobody is saying that people can't do these techniques, they are only asking that people who do them call them what they are so that they are not associated improperly with other arts.

I apologise to the members reading this post, as I know that I have been rather long winded. I feel that enough has been said on this topic, and it is clear that you are not going to change your stance on what you do, and I do not feel that anyone wants you to.  I simply hope that you realize that the name that you use to describe what it is that you do is important because the ramifications of your actions will not only be associated with you, but with what you profess to practice.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Ryan Ford on December 12, 2005, 04:56:54 PM
read my post again. there is a difference between never saying "this is parkour" and never saying "this is not parkour".

you guys said "this is parkour" and you were not doing parkour.

other people post stuff that may not be parkour and that is fine if they dont claim it to be.

most people just post videos that are an overall representation of their skills. that is why you have seen Belle do flips.

youre failure to realize this is the stem of all this wasted time spent arguing. i dont know what else to say to you guys. i dont see what is so hard to understand.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Rafe on December 12, 2005, 08:32:31 PM
NO ONE has commented on that fact that over 80% of the pics and vids here and at UFF and all the other BIG PARKOUR HUBS have "freestyle" in them. A lot of them more than our vids and such.
like corndoggs pics, the superst0ne, and ( do you really wnat to name them all. it would be easier if I named the few w/o freestyle.



Deft man you seriously need to read up a bit before you start spouting of the same arguments every one else has tried. Most peoples training videos and sampler are not pure parkour thats because its damn hard to capture pure parkour on tape, how many camera men would you need just to capture a single parkour run satisfactorially? Parkour videos are genereal samplers of the skills and training of individual traceurs allmost all of whom have skill's outside of parkour and train movements outside of parkour.

I am sure many traceurs do push ups as part of their training, nobody argues that their parkour, why cause nobody puts them in their video, why cause their allot less interesting to watch then flips or flag poles, the fact that flips and flagpoles and handsprings and handstands are more camera freindly does not make them parkour, it just means people are more likely to want to include them in their videos. 

I guess I must be no one.  ;)

Just because someone trains acrobatic's as well as parkour does not mean their freestyle. You have to let go of concept that parkour is an umbrella concept for everthing a person does in their training.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 12, 2005, 11:50:07 PM
it's like this. think for a second about someone who has never heard of parkour. they don't even know the word. if you don't use the word at all, and people see a video of you flipping, wallspinning, etc. they will proabably just assume that it is some sort of urban gymnastics (which is what is, and that is perfectly fine to do). but when you say it is parkour, that is when you have a problem. most people when they see it, aren't going to go looking on the internet for an explination, they are going to see your video, and then remember parkour as "that stuff where you do flips off of railings and jump around". this is why we get a little perturbed. we don't want people thinking of parkour like that. there already is "street acro" or "free running". parkour was actually sprouted from street acro and buildering. that is what the yamakasi did. but that isn't parkour. parkour is more defined, it is resitricted to just those movements that will help you in an emergency situation. there aren't many videos of parkour, because it is boring to watch to most people. actually, watch the banlieue 13 clip (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8970008800328106389&q=david+belle). that is parkour, just what would help you in an emergency situation. no flips, no fluff, just moving somewhere as fast and efficiently as you can.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 07:12:43 AM
Disciple- I see your point about XMA. I am a martial artist and I see XMA as a off shoot of traditional martial arts. However since there are so manyls/groups/clans (or whatever you want to call them) of XMA that it is impossible to deny it exists as part of the martial arts community. The "traditional" martial artist may not appreciate it, but you can not walk into a XMA school and tell them they are not real. You can question its practicality but you can not say it's not a martial art.
  To keep up with the martial arts correlation. Have you ever heard the phrase "you fight like you train."  What that means is that your patterns in the gym (or street practise) is reflected in flow. Everyone here agrees that the majority of people here train "more than just parkour." Like in Klayman's last vid, or in corndogg's pic, or inStepOne's vid, or Dzokhar avatar and vids, Faelcind's vid, blackhat's palmspin and back hand springs, Kaos- change  of direction in flow and going back in the direction in which he came. (basically all the vids/pics on this site. So basically you all train the way we flow but yet you seam to be using the veil of the term "training" to do the fun stuff we do.

(serious question for whoever)
If someone can do a running front flip over a 7 set of stairs faster than he could run down them. Is that freestyle or just finding a faster more efficient way to move past the stairs while keeping flow?  It just happens to have "flair" or look cooler than running down stairs.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 13, 2005, 07:58:36 AM
everything doesn't have a name. if you must put a name to it, then yes, most of the videos are training or free running. read disciple's poost again. the part about presenting it to the public. it is not what you do that we don't like. it is that you presented it to the public as parkour. and for your question, flipping down the stairs would not be parkour, you could go down much more effieciently by just jumping/dropping down the steps. but let me ask you something. if you were being chased by a pack of dogs, would you flip down the steps?
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 08:22:09 AM
As much as I don't want to be chased be a pack of dogs, I think it would be awesome to throw in a flip as part of my evasive tactics to get away from dogs or anything that would chase me.

Anyone who can clip with efficiency and confidence should be able to perform a running front as fast as a normal jump or drop. (In all actuality it might me 1/1000 os a second slower but not difference wouldnt be noticed be the naked eye.)
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 13, 2005, 08:34:56 AM
As much as I don't want to be chased be a pack of dogs, I think it would be awesome to throw in a flip as part of my evasive tactics to get away from dogs or anything that would chase me.

Anyone who can clip with efficiency and confidence should be able to perform a running front as fast as a normal jump or drop. (In all actuality it might me 1/1000 os a second slower but not difference wouldnt be noticed be the naked eye.)

well, obviously you are an idiot and there is no reasoning with you. i seriously doubt you would use a flip when being chased.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 08:56:22 AM
Oh,are we back to name calling.  (I appologized for my rudeness earlier and am responding to everyone in a polite manner) sorry you are lowering the level of conversation.

I did say that ONLY if I have confidence and efficiency in a move then I feel I can incorporate it whenever, even if being chased be dogs.

Anyone who practices a "extreme" sport craves a "rush" or  "feeling of freredom" or whatever you want to call it. (basically everyone should be familiar with the risks of the sport and they know this is not for the timid)
 If I can incorporate a part of my freestyle parkour into daily life (weither I am being chased or on my way to the liquor store, I feel like I am LIVING my art. If that makes me a idiot, well I guess I am guilty.


I would love to meet you in person klayman.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Brian Belida on December 13, 2005, 09:07:54 AM
Eureka! That's exactly what we've been talking about, you called it "freestyle parkour." That's all we ask, that you call what it is what it is, that you understand that parkour is parkour, and not freestyle parkour. And vice versa. As long as you understand that, then there's no problem.

And just a little vexation that I see a lot, it's not "Klayman," it's "Klaymen." It's from an old awesome adventure game called "The Neverhood."
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 09:26:39 AM
I understand  there is a difference in parkour and in freestyle parkour. I also understand that the majority of people here and (people of parkour interest) train and perform the moves we do.  I understand tha the people pointing fingers at me does the same moves I do. They also post it on the same parkour websites, as do we but they feel they are exempt from "freestyle status" becasue they dismiss it as "training" even when it isn't clearly stated at training.  Isn't the word "training" just another term and it's getting caught up in "terms" that's causing this divide.

There was also a indy documentary filmed on the same day as the news stuff and we DEFINANTLY say the word "freestyle" in it. In the news story cut it does not have that magic word or "term."

I did not mean to mispell anyone's name on purpose.

Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 13, 2005, 09:40:26 AM
personally, i don't like the term "freestyle parkour", as it causes a lot of confusion. there were things before frpk that have the exact same rules. joe eigo does "multi level moves" cyrill rafaeilli does "street acro". yes, it is true, I do not do parkour every time i go out to train my body. but i also don't call it such. i say training because that's what it is. training my body. or just jumping around. sorry for the name calling, but i was getting very frustrated. so you mean to tell me, that if someone was chasing you down trying to kill you, you would front flip down a flight of stairs rather than jump down them? (no matter how much you practice, jumping will use less energy, and take less time)
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Brian Belida on December 13, 2005, 09:45:38 AM
I know you didn't do it on purpose, just pointing it out :]

The big difference is that it's in the publics eye. It's like saying "cat" and pointing to a picture of a dog. If you did that on public television, don't you think people would have something to say about it? I do understand the parallel you are drawing, but again, but there is a difference between a public news piece that doesn't specify that flips can be used to train confidence and they are fun, and a video on a parkour website right next to the information that states what parkour is and isn't.

And I'd like to see this indy documentary, any idea when it will come out?
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 10:01:57 AM
"It's like pointing at a cat and saying dog."  I think that is a poor example. I think it would be slightly more correct to look at a Persian cat and call it a Tabby cat.

Klaymen- the senario you created was dogs chasing me. If I am in a element to do my freestyle parkour, I will not fear dogs chasing me. To change that to "someone chasing me down to kill me" is a drastically different senario and my answer to that would be drastically different.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 13, 2005, 10:16:42 AM
"It's like pointing at a cat and saying dog."  I think that is a poor example. I think it would be slightly more correct to look at a Persian cat and call it a Tabby cat.

Klaymen- the senario you created was dogs chasing me. If I am in a element to do my freestyle parkour, I will not fear dogs chasing me. To change that to "someone chasing me down to kill me" is a drastically different senario and my answer to that would be drastically different.

what the hell are you talking about? why does it matter if it is a person or dogs chasing after you? you are just trying to get away.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 10:28:23 AM
Why do you keep quoting me in the purple box things? Was it necessary to quote my entire last post? Well, whatever floats your boat.

You are jumping around all these hypothetical senarios.
If 1 person was chasing me (and he did not have a knife, or gun, and is not on PCP) I will more than likely stop and fight back.
If I had to run away I would love to make my "attacker" feel even more foolish by me running and flipping away from his ass!
If a dog or even 2 or 3 are chasing me. I don't think it would be very hard to outsmart them let alone to out manuver them, especially in a hotspot I practise my freestyle parkour at.

Wat does any of your "attacker" senario have to do with my practise of freestyle parkour?


Akh Horus- I have the doc. on DVD but am unable to get it posted on line at this time. When I can, I will make sure you get to see it.
(on a side note I have a couple complaints about how the doc. turned out.  i.e. the way scenes and comments were cut along with the poor selection of music.)
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Matthew Lee Willis on December 13, 2005, 11:20:37 AM
*sigh*
I appreciate what DEFT is trying to say here and he is totally correct.  Let me give some information to you guys that you might understand.  Also I talked to Andi from PAWA last night for about 6 hours.  He explained to me the problem.

Here is what these people are trying to state.  David Belle says that Parkour has to be the absolutely most efficient movement possible.  If we are going by David Belle.  So PAWA says there is no A and no B.  There is only a direction of movement.  They love this lion quote, they say if you being chased by a lion and you run and then run up a tree...you will never know when point B was...because you were waiting for the lion to either find you or not.  Is the lion gone or is still there.  When a car is speeding toward you and you jump over it to get out of the way.  Where was no point A and B...if it was a standing jump.  I know everyone can probably try and find a point A and B in these sayings but this is they way Andi explained it to me.

He says by adding the word FreeStyle to the mix PAWA feels disrespected as Parkour enthusiast.  So I think that a lot of this is a disrespect issue.  I know a lot of it was the news interview and how the media conveyed it.

So here is the problem.  There is still an issue of the flips in parkour.  So if you throw a flip into park...(by David Belles interpretation) it is not 100% efficient.  So in PARKOUR most moves will be running gaps, simple vaults and traveling vaults, there would be no such thing as a cat balance or wall spin.  I truly understand it.  Now I dont know what to do.  See the problem is that I dont want to turn my back on parkour by saying training video...that is about the stupidest thing that I have ever heard.  You are doing parkour, its just FreeStyle Parkour which of course is different then parkour.  Now by stating that it is FreeStyle you offend David Belle and his philosophy.  This is a reason why this will never be resolved.  People want to call it parkour...no one wants to call it free running or 3run crap.

So for now I am at a stand still.  I will call myself a practitioner of Parkour.  Although, when I post a video with anything less the 100% efficiency of movement, I will be gay like everyone else and just not give an explanation of what it is.  That way I can practice parkour and do the things that I want.  You should not be able to argue with my this last paragraph because this is exactly what pawa and seb and the rest of the people here on the boards do, and this is what I was directed to do by Andi of PAWA.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 13, 2005, 11:31:40 AM
thank you
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Ryan Ford on December 13, 2005, 11:49:49 AM
Quote
Although, when I post a video with anything less the 100% efficiency of movement, I will be gay like everyone else and just not give an explanation of what it is.

...and for a brief while there I actually thought you were trying to make amends.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 11:53:34 AM
*sigh*

  I will call myself a practitioner of Parkour.  Although, when I post a video with anything less the 100% efficiency of movement, I will be gay like everyone else and just not give an explanation of what it is.  That way I can practice parkour and do the things that I want. 

I will do the same. But, I will not be gay though :P
Glad the war is over.... now let's go out and have some fun!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Rafe on December 13, 2005, 01:46:45 PM
Mathew I don't think you understand it yet, I think you know what parkour means now but you have to go out and practice the art as belle describes it to understand it. Let me give you a little background I have practiced gymnastics for five years, the first exposure I had to parkour was the video on avance toujours(lots of flips), I read the english version of David's le-parkour.com site which called parkour the art of movement.

So when I came on the online community and had people telling me that flips weren't part of parkour I was like WTF! Since I am loud mouth with a need to talk things out to understand them I quickly made my thoughts known and got flamed pretty hard. When davids defination came out I accepted out of respect for him but I didn't understand it. I didn't understand untill I went out and trained with the mindset he describes. It took me a little while for the mindset to actuall set it but when it did I realized that was parkour, when I have that mindset I don't flip, I don't wallspin, I don't do flair elements, the simply don't occur to me.

Which is not to say I don't train flair elements, I love to flip and do wall spins mostly I do them in the gym but at jams I will break them out or when I am just playing around outside with freinds.

Parkour is defined by the mindset of efficiency and speed of an emergency situtation. It doesn't matter if you never do anything but cat vaults, speed vaults and running gap jumps, if you don't have that mindset what your doing isn't really parkour. Its just the movements. When you have that mindset flair elements just don't happen. Which is not to say that people who train with that mindset never do flips while their out training. Ever get distracted while reading a book, get up stretch your limbs etc. Thats what it feels like if stop a parkour run and do a flip, my mindset has changed, I was doing parkour untill I was distracted by the desire to flip of that something. For the most part though that doesn't happen anymore, I only flip in the gym at jams or when I am outside specifical to practice tricking.

I would also disagree with you about free running I think free running is great, I don't like FRPK because it pretends to be something its not, free running, Yamakasi stree acro, street stunts their all great, they don't have to pretend to be something their not.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Deft on December 13, 2005, 02:22:01 PM
I personally don't like the term free running. I think it puts emphasis on running. (it makes me picture a jogging club)
Yes, we do run but that is only one piece of the many facets that compose our art, the biggest facet being parkour.
The term Freestyle Parkour best defines us becasue we are a parkour group with a touch of freestyle, so there is no pretending there. We ARE PARKOUR in Frestyle form.

I don't know if we will ever have any other news opportunities but in the future we will make sure to use the word "freestyle" and will mention that there is a difference between parkour and freestyle parkour and that we practise freestyle parkour and that what is shown is freestyle.

So PLEASE consider this issue to be resolved.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: klaymen on December 13, 2005, 02:44:36 PM
thank you
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Skipper on December 15, 2005, 09:10:24 AM
So..... this whole thread is over the NAME!?!?! You guys really just want to hold on to the name and continue to adapt it to your likings??
The way I see it is, This is the MEDIA. I ran into this problem the very first day I started training, a training video is easily forgotten and deleted, but when media is present you are representing the way you do parkour to the entire world (possibly). If you throw a whole bunch of incorrect and unneccessary ingredients into the mix (like flips and wallspins) then you give the media THAT MUCH MORE material to use against you. You dont have to portray parkour perfectly in training vids, just what you train that might improve your parkour skills (i.e. klaymen's flag builds strength in his arms, that might make cat grap topouts faster)... But when the media asks you to give them footage of PARKOUR, you cant revert back to what a training video looks like, you have to actually show them the true meaning of parkour, you know, what youve been training for all this time....

Not many people make parkour videos, that would only consist of quick runs, simple movements, everything whittled down to efficiency. Instead, people make "parkour training videos" that show steps they take to give them the array of abilities to actually "do" parkour when it is needed. Unfortunately, When the media is involved asking for what parkour is.... this is not your chance to show off your array of different skills, this is your chance to turn the tides and represent parkour in a positive way. and even though you think that these huge drops and whatnot are positive to the "extreme" audience, thats not really the audience that we want. Respect the art. I see that you now realize what you should do from now on, but if you just HATE the name FRPK..... why not just do parkour?... you know, if the name itself is that important to you.

All i can say is that on the homepage there is a little box up in the corner. that will tell you what parkour is. Id like to leave it to all of you to decide if doing a flip down 7 stairs is more (physically AND mentally) efficient than a simple jump...... but im not sure if we can cut the umbilical cord just yet.  ;)
Title: txpk
Post by: Deft on December 15, 2005, 10:09:37 AM
we resolved the issue 2 days ago and I thought it was done.
I have agreed that if I ever talk to the media I will make sure to state that I practise Freestyle parkour.

You have all said your points and I see where you are coming from. The debate is over!
On my side of seeing it- on our news day we only did the moves that are posted here everyday BUT we called it parkour.
I do realize that is technically a error, (which has been corrected) but I feel that everyone who posts a pic/vid on a PARKOUR site without putting a disclaimer stating that they are posting a non parkour vid/pic on a parkour site is just as bad as what I did.

I didn't realize that everything slides here when it's under the ruse of being considered "training", even whe not clearly stated as such.  I guess that it's better not to clearly state what your doing, (so people can just assume it's traing and that it's "not serious pk".)
Like I said a couple days ago and am stating again for the record: "We are freestye parkour and we will CLEARLY state that to new viewers."

Can anyone see my point that everyone's vids look like ours and that people do not clearly state that their vids/pics are not of true parkour. I feel most people train Freesyle Parkour (proof is in 85% of the pics/vids posted) but most people do not want to claim Freestyle Parkour as their art.

I am not trying to dig up this topic and beat a dead dog but since it was brought up about "this whole thread being about a name" and "us wanting to hold on to a name and continue to adapt it to our likings." That is not true.  But that is what I think when I see Freestyle Parkour posted on a parkour website without it being stated. If I was a outsider checking out the site I will naturally watch the vids to see this wonderful art. What will I find here? FREESTYLE PARKOUR VIDS/PICS.
Title: Re: Texas News Story
Post by: Skipper on December 15, 2005, 12:23:40 PM
It is easy to make distinctions between parkour videos and parkour training videos. I dont think i have ever stated in any of my videos that i am actually doing parkour in the videos. people will see it for what it is, but if you make it very clear that what you are trying to portray is parkour, then people will get on your case if it is not parkour.

Please dont try to lay a guilt trip on everyone, I can hear it in your posts. its the whole "FINE, ill do it your way *pouty face*" deal.... its a sign of us winning an argument AGAINST you, instead of everyone winning an agreement WITH you. All i can say is from now on, have  faith that the pooled inputs of an entire community will hold more weight than that of two individuals... because the community as a whole is generally right.

Im sorry, I really am. This is unfortunate that people are actually getting mad (its the internet people, calm down). but its also unfortunate that people are very stubborn to accept certain aspects that they for some reason feel so strongly against.... the people working on APK are really enthusiastic about working WITH people to teach them about what we know.. NOT working against them to pound information into their heads while they refuse refuse refuse to sit still and listen.

I feel bad about doing this, but im locking this thread. Yes, it is a vid/pic thread, but there is vital information in here to learn from, and I hope you HAVE learned from some of it already. By locking this, hopefully we can forget about this and move on... just be careful from here on out with the media, ok? ;)
thanks guys