American Parkour Forum

Parkour and Freerunning => Parkour And Freerunning => Topic started by: DevintheNinja on February 28, 2010, 07:19:51 PM

Title: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on February 28, 2010, 07:19:51 PM
So another buddy of mine is always telling me that if you dont hold the precision for 3sec that it doesnt count or some ish like that. Normally when i do precisions and start to lose my balance i instinctively jump back to the other precision(180 precision) to save it basically or link it to something else. So my question is has anybody else have this "3 second rule"???
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Michael Mayer on February 28, 2010, 07:20:44 PM
I do the same thing as you, if I lose my balance, I just try to make the best of it.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Travis S on February 28, 2010, 11:18:01 PM
I think its important to be able to stabilize yourself, so that's not a bad training method, but also train doing them quickly, and also try doing a 180 hop on them, and try combing them, there's so many fun ways to drill precisions.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Cody Bolen on March 01, 2010, 04:13:22 AM
Never heard of that,but I have heard of the six second rule for tricking and flips; if you fall down before six seconds it doesn't count :)
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Alex frogger Brown on March 01, 2010, 05:51:05 AM
personally, when drilling it, i dont count it unless i could hold it indefinitely
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: BaptizedByFire on March 01, 2010, 08:20:56 AM
personally, when drilling it, i dont count it unless i could hold it indefinitely

You should know whether you stuck a move perfect or if you totally booger'd. What if you overbalanced just a little, but enough to keep you from holding on the rail? It should "count" just as much as completely missing the rail and falling on your face.

but regarding the three-second rule... the only rules in parkour are the Laws of Physics
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Will Ahlberg on March 01, 2010, 08:21:34 AM
I just make sure i am stable before i move again unless im doin a combo. if you jump higher and not so straight like a laser, you can land easier. you will also find that you can actually go farther (at least i did) when you jump up more.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Mark Toorock on March 01, 2010, 08:47:54 AM
There have been times when I stayed on a rail for 10 seconds and knew "I didn't have it" and times when I hit it perfectly and was off it in a split second. I'd say the "3 second rule" is a good idea for training - but always progress - next week make it 4 seconds, then 5 then 10 :)

The "3 Second Rule" I have heard before even from Sebastien Foucan is that if you don't do the move in 3 seconds back away. This is the "no hesitation" rule and it is meant as a way for you to hone your skill of knowing when you are capable of something or not.  Like all rules, it is meant to be used judiciously :)
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 01, 2010, 09:35:43 AM
I think its important to be able to stabilize yourself, so that's not a bad training method, but also train doing them quickly, and also try doing a 180 hop on them, and try combing them, there's so many fun ways to drill precisions.

this is the exact way i train for speed. the 180 is used so i can keep moving and not slow myself down

There have been times when I stayed on a rail for 10 seconds and knew "I didn't have it" and times when I hit it perfectly and was off it in a split second. I'd say the "3 second rule" is a good idea for training - but always progress - next week make it 4 seconds, then 5 then 10 :)

The "3 Second Rule" I have heard before even from Sebastien Foucan is that if you don't do the move in 3 seconds back away. This is the "no hesitation" rule and it is meant as a way for you to hone your skill of knowing when you are capable of something or not.  Like all rules, it is meant to be used judiciously :)


well its not a problem of me hesitating all i really do is look at it judge the distance of the precision and just do it. jumping high or any of that has never been a problem with me lol. Its the simple fact that when we at the gym i did this long as precision and instantly jumped off to the next obstacle he said "if you dont hold it for 3 seconds it doesnt count" thats why i asked lol. But thanks for your responses keep them coming
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Corndogg on March 01, 2010, 11:24:00 AM
The only "rule" is that you should be honest with yourself if you have stuck the precision or not.  A successful precision to me means that all momentum has been killed, and you are free to move in whatever direction you want after.  If momentum is still carrying you in a certain direction, you didn't really stick it.

Awareness and honest evaluation will help you progress the most!
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Mark Toorock on March 01, 2010, 11:28:38 AM
Corndogg that's kind of what I meant to say, I've been at jams where I did a precision and people gave me props and I said "No, I didn't really have it" - so it appeared that I landed and was settled and stuck it, but I knew I hadn't :)
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Andy Keller on March 01, 2010, 12:00:42 PM
this is the exact way i train for speed. the 180 is used so i can keep moving and not slow myself down

well its not a problem of me hesitating all i really do is look at it judge the distance of the precision and just do it. jumping high or any of that has never been a problem with me lol. Its the simple fact that when we at the gym i did this long as precision and instantly jumped off to the next obstacle he said "if you dont hold it for 3 seconds it doesnt count" thats why i asked lol. But thanks for your responses keep them coming

Count for what? Why does it matter to him if you can do it or not?
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 01, 2010, 12:27:57 PM
this again where my differences in his style and my style clash.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Travis S on March 01, 2010, 01:17:05 PM
Styles should never clash, they should nurture each other to grow better and more diverse. Being able to do a wide variety of things well is always a plus!
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 01, 2010, 02:08:14 PM
Styles should never clash, they should nurture each other to grow better and more diverse. Being able to do a wide variety of things well is always a plus!

although that is true. everything has there yin and yang. he way of moving is totally different from mine in the since of parkour.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Chance B. on March 01, 2010, 02:26:19 PM
although that is true. everything has there yin and yang. he way of moving is totally different from mine in the since of parkour.
I think the "clash" just gave a type of negative connotation, but I think I get the gist of what you mean now. The clashing is probably not a bad thing, just extreme diversity in your movements from his which is good, and like Travis said, would probably help you two to become more advanced/diverse movement wise.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Joshua Pagan on March 01, 2010, 02:31:05 PM
Quote
Styles should never clash, they should nurture each other to grow better and more diverse. Being able to do a wide variety of things well is always a plus!


although that is true. everything has there yin and yang. he way of moving is totally different from mine in the since of parkour.
even though i think this is true, the move is just a precision,,, not going to be that much of a difference
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: max eisenberg on March 01, 2010, 04:27:14 PM
as stated before, awareness and honesty are the only ways to judge your training. even the fastest traceur with the most skilled varied movements started with slow controlled movement.

they can move fast now because as soon as they land their momentum is centered and they are free to move in any direction needed, not following momentum but, controlling it... there is a difference, dont forget that.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: jp2ykz on March 01, 2010, 05:27:21 PM
I love fast movement on rails like handicap ramp rails. I will precision, spin back and forth and run along the top. This fast movement is what gave me the control that I needed to balance for just about any amount of time.

I think the fast style will progress you on a much wider range of skills and get you able to achieve the 3 sec rule or any other rule when ever you want. 
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Corndogg on March 01, 2010, 06:05:11 PM
"Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

 ;D
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Cody Bolen on March 01, 2010, 06:11:58 PM
as stated before, awareness and honesty are the only ways to judge your training. even the fastest traceur with the most skilled varied movements started with slow controlled movement.

they can move fast now because as soon as they land their momentum is centered and they are free to move in any direction needed, not following momentum but, controlling it... there is a difference, dont forget that.

I swear you should write a book or something, everything you say is quotable! You amaze me.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: jp2ykz on March 01, 2010, 07:00:19 PM
"Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

 ;D

I will agree with being slower first. When people hear slow though, I think they can have a tenancy to not use momentum.

Also I have found that the edge of control is the fastest way to grow. I still think you should do a majority of your training with allot of control but sometimes you will gain allot by pushing that envelope. It really helps you put your finger on proper utilization of momentum.

Proper use of momentum for me was one of the biggest keys to really getting good with this.   

 
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 01, 2010, 07:44:58 PM
I love fast movement on rails like handicap ramp rails. I will precision, spin back and forth and run along the top. This fast movement is what gave me the control that I needed to balance for just about any amount of time.

I think the fast style will progress you on a much wider range of skills and get you able to achieve the 3 sec rule or any other rule when ever you want. 

this is the way i learned to control all my movements whether it be a vault or a precision

I will agree with being slower first. When people hear slow though, I think they can have a tenancy to not use momentum.

Also I have found that the edge of control is the fastest way to grow. I still think you should do a majority of your training with allot of control but sometimes you will gain allot by pushing that envelope. It really helps you put your finger on proper utilization of momentum.

Proper use of momentum for me was one of the biggest keys to really getting good with this.

i still think its just a huge difference in our style. lol was told today that i need to learn to kong low objects
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: jp2ykz on March 01, 2010, 07:57:47 PM
Konging low stuff is stupid. Just jump over it. Or just do a cool flip over it. 8) 
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Christian Greene on March 01, 2010, 08:03:23 PM
Yeah I've heard this, we do this at the gym if we want to to 'stick it' it's gotta be a 3 second hold. It's good for stabilization practice and such, as you want to be able to do that if necessary.

Interesting how Mark said he's done some where he would hold for 10 sec and still know he didn't have it...there definitely is something in your mind that goes off when you know you've stuck it, no matter how long you hold it I suppose ;)
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 01, 2010, 08:03:46 PM
Konging low stuff is stupid. Just jump over it. Or just do a cool flip over it. 8) 

this is sig worthy
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: jp2ykz on March 01, 2010, 10:48:59 PM
That is worth serious consideration sir.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: max eisenberg on March 04, 2010, 10:47:22 AM
I will agree with being slower first. When people hear slow though, I think they can have a tenancy to not use momentum.

Also I have found that the edge of control is the fastest way to grow. I still think you should do a majority of your training with allot of control but sometimes you will gain allot by pushing that envelope. It really helps you put your finger on proper utilization of momentum.

Proper use of momentum for me was one of the biggest keys to really getting good with this.   

 

i think learning to use momentum should be one of the LAST things a traceur learns. thats just me though....
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Travis S on March 04, 2010, 03:18:56 PM
i think learning to use momentum should be one of the LAST things a traceur learns. thats just me though....

Well, by jumping or running you are controlling your momentum, and uncontrolled momentum is a dangerous thing. Why do you think this?
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: jp2ykz on March 04, 2010, 04:15:04 PM
I think that it really depends on what level of starting coordination the person has.

If the person is reasonably coordinated and athletic, light on their feet etc. I think they can learn much faster by using some momentum. If the person has never done athletic stuff and PK is their first real sport then a more measured approach is necessary.   
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 05, 2010, 02:58:11 PM
I think that it really depends on what level of starting coordination the person has.

If the person is reasonably coordinated and athletic, light on their feet etc. I think they can learn much faster by using some momentum. If the person has never done athletic stuff and PK is their first real sport then a more measured approach is necessary.   

damn you know me so well lol
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Corndogg on March 05, 2010, 07:15:04 PM
i think learning to use momentum should be one of the LAST things a traceur learns. thats just me though....


I consider the manipulation of momentum, eg conserving it, directing it, or killing it, to be one of the fundamentals of parkour, and I always recommend starting with the fundamentals. 
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Corndogg on March 05, 2010, 07:19:46 PM
On a related note, I do try and go by the rule of 3's - if you can't do it 3 times you can't do it at all! 
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: _Nick_ on March 15, 2010, 06:54:07 PM
... the only rules in parkour are the Laws of Physics

and even then, they are negotiable and malleable :D

yeah this rule/method is a personal bitch of mine. i tend to tip.

also

Konging low stuff is stupid. Just jump over it.

sig'd and QFT - i am terrible and konging, i can hurdle a picnic table (widthwise, but legthwise is a goal in the workings) and i believe since PK is about the efficiency of movement, then why the hell not just hurdle it if you can? my friend gives me crap for not even being able to kong a picnic table widthwise, but i say hurdle is faster and smoother.

Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Nick Stone on March 15, 2010, 09:12:49 PM

[/quote]
sig'd and QFT - i am terrible and konging, i can hurdle a picnic table (widthwise, but legthwise is a goal in the workings) and i believe since PK is about the efficiency of movement, then why the hell not just hurdle it if you can? my friend gives me crap for not even being able to kong a picnic table widthwise, but i say hurdle is faster and smoother.

Same here. I can't kong a picnic table very well (I can barely do it), but I can get over it much easier with the vault-I-forgot-the-name-of.

And speaking of not knowing the name of a vault, I kind of forget which vault is which. I just do whatever works, it shouldn't matter what it's called.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: _Nick_ on March 16, 2010, 05:24:32 AM
oh the one where you swing legs to the sideish and put on hand down on the table.. speed i think? idk but yeah thats a staple move for me. do that over everyything

and agree, whatever works to get it done
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: BaptizedByFire on March 31, 2010, 08:01:06 AM
oh the one where you swing legs to the sideish and put on hand down on the table.. speed i think? idk but yeah thats a staple move for me. do that over everyything

and agree, whatever works to get it done

So long as you're a beginner, getting over obstacles as efficiently as possible is your main concern. This is how we develop muscle memory, and build strength. Learn the flow and become strong enough to move your body, then worry about flash and flair. Personally, muscle is the hardest thing to develop, but i believe flow is most important overall.

Its like Bruce Lee said: "Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”

Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: jp2ykz on April 03, 2010, 12:13:27 PM
sig'd and QFT - i am terrible and konging, i can hurdle a picnic table (widthwise, but legthwise is a goal in the workings) and i believe since PK is about the efficiency of movement, then why the hell not just hurdle it if you can? my friend gives me crap for not even being able to kong a picnic table widthwise, but i say hurdle is faster and smoother.

Can you hurdle it long ways?? if not Konging picnic tables short ways is a pretty valuable progression.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: _Nick_ on April 14, 2010, 06:53:53 AM
almost. i can get one leg all the way over and the other swings behind me and to the side.. sometimes always catches on the end of the table. but yeah, working on the kong, but have the same problem, both feet catch as i bring them forward out of the dive... i think my problem is im touching the table too long with my hands. both are works in progress.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Todd1 on April 14, 2010, 07:47:28 AM
Quote
i say hurdle is faster and smoother.

I agree it's faster, but I think overall a kong is more efficient.  Just having the extra power and control from the arms means less work for the legs.  Not to mention having that last second ability to adjust speed or direction that a vault offers and a hurdle does not.  Having said that, I still feel hurdles are an important skill to have as well.

Quote
Konging low stuff is stupid
 

I knida disagree.  In a practical sense, maybe so.  But I treat it like cat-balancing, ground kongs, and even flips.  Cat-balancing and low/ground kongs improve the coordinated use of all limbs, which improves other techniques that use legs and arms together (which is like everything in pk.)  So even though cat-balancing and ground kongs are not the fastest means of travel, they are invaluable training tools.  Flips, while not practical in the sense that you wouldn't do them while running for your life are practical in that they really help with spatial awareness, and your ability to recover and land well when you fall. 

Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: Jon E on April 14, 2010, 11:14:52 AM
... the only rules in parkour are the Laws of Physics

I like that sooo...I will take it!
Title: Re: 3sec precision rule
Post by: SBlue on April 14, 2010, 11:21:23 AM
are there laws in parkour?! :o
you can't be serious :o