American Parkour Forum

Local Connections - USA => Hawaii => The Islands => Going Natural - Fitness the old school way. => Topic started by: Gregg HIPK on July 09, 2009, 05:29:30 PM

Title: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 09, 2009, 05:29:30 PM
I was cruising the .net archives looking for old Hebertiste [Erwan Le Corre] posts

Check this out:

You must first build stronger feet :
By walking barefoot very often you will develop more flexibility and enhance your attention, peripheral vision and proprioception.
By running barefoot same as above plus better running technique, better work out of feet muscles and all related muscles, strengthening your joints too, and thickening your natural sole much more (4 times your body weight on each foot every step when running). It is more or less painful depending on the kind of ground you're running onto, and above all depending on the quality of your running technique.
Jumping barefoot can be very challenging, but to me you shouldn't start doing parkour in a urban zone before you've first build up stronger feet, which does take MONTHS.
Most kind of barefoot training is much easier in the nature, now rocky zones should be avoided in the beginning as well.
Just like anything, you should start and learn the basics, and be patient before you try more challenging moves or type of ground.
Even when you're well trained, you can get hurt bad, simply because barefoot training can be totally challenging depending on the type of ground, weather conditions and what you do. It demands gradual conditioning both physical and mental.
You also have to admit that you'll never do as well as when wearing shoes which are designed to protect your feet. On the other hand, the reward is the ability to cope with a "shoe-free" situation, and also the fantastic natural feel of running barefoot.

And yes, if you think the picture below is scary, indeed don't get mistaken and understand it definetely demands a warrior like kind of mindset if you actually want to train that way instead of only asking questions :-D

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh29/glamse/pieddroitfvrier0632kb.jpg)
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 09, 2009, 05:31:47 PM
Posted by: Ian "cranial"
OH MON DIEU!!!   :o that looks damn painful.
my toes have little cuts on them and my feet are a little burnt from running barefoot on concrete, but nothing even close to that bad. ouch

Posted on: June 10, 2009, 02:30:02 PM
Posted by: Ozzi
DanG!!!!!
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Ozzi on July 09, 2009, 07:05:38 PM
I heard he trains almost everyday, I wonder what e does when his feet are like that. Or, why does it let them get like that. They look SUPER dry and it is easy [and heals faster] if you keep them moist.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 09, 2009, 07:12:57 PM
I don't remember exactly...

I think he said something about hot water, and cutting back on protein for a couple days. I read it like a month ago... sorry.
Why'd he let his feet get like that? It's because he was training in wet, and on rock... the calluses softened up and got sliced off.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: ManiacKevin on July 11, 2009, 12:52:10 AM
haha, I started out with barefoot training and still doing it today, never got anything like that but I have been doing parkour for 7 month's now and My feet fell stronger.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 13, 2009, 04:50:25 PM
Exuberant Animal / Frank Forencich just posted about barefoot training HERE (http://blog.exuberantanimal.com/?p=288)
Usually I'd post this in the FF/EA thread, but I think it's better here. Here's a quote:

When The Barefoot Sensei gives presentations on the virtues of barefooting, he often begins with a simple question: “What’s the first thing that happens when you take your shoes off?”

People grope for an answer, searching their memory banks for the last time they actually went barefoot, suspicious that this might be some sort of trick question. But before they can get their words in order, Sensei answers for them:”You start paying attention!”

Some listeners find this amusing or trivial, but it’s actually quite profound, something that will immediately become obvious to anyone who actually spends time outdoors in bare feet. When you kick your shoes off, it doesn’t take long for the instinct for foot preservation to kick in.There’s something about naked, vulnerable feet that brings the mind-body into focus.

Just stop paying attention for a few moments and you’ll see, or rather feel, what Sensei is getting at. Just try thinking about your relationship troubles or your floundering career when you’re running down a rocky trail; you’ll get a reminder soon enough. Stub your toe on a rock and your mind will come back into focus without delay.

The whole article is good. If you train barefoot, or are thinking about it, read it.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 14, 2009, 11:27:51 AM
http://www.adventureinprogress.com/tcfmf-introduction
Damien talks about his experiments barefoot and in minimalist footwear.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: OisinsRevenge on July 16, 2009, 01:27:04 PM
looks like he needed some of these

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/benchew01/CopyofDSC00247.jpg)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/benchew01/CopyofDSC00248.jpg)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/benchew01/CopyofDSC00249.jpg)
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 16, 2009, 02:20:50 PM
The guys who run barefoot to prefer the FeelMax shoes http://www.feelmax.com/site/

At $85 [60 EU] [for the Panka] they're pricey. They're in Euro sizes. No stores in the US yet. That doesn't include shipping.
They only ship within Europe.

I guess I'll just stick to my Locals http://www.hawaiianlocals.com/

(http://www.hawaiianlocals.com/images/AllProductImages/1350_smokeLRG.jpg)
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 16, 2009, 03:20:15 PM
http://barefootted.com
Barefoot Ted has trained with Erwan LeCorre [redid his website] and Frank Forencich/ Exuberant Animal.

http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches
Minimalist/ barefoot runner group. Might as well learn from their experience.

These FeelMax Nieses are the ones BFT and Erwan really liked - came out June 2009
(http://barefootted.com/uploaded_images/IMGP1092-744054.JPG)
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Jon on July 16, 2009, 05:02:11 PM
@ the foot posted above
OWWWWWWWWEEE that looks like the time i was hiking trough a swamp for 4 hours on a hike and basically the entire sole of my foot peeled off
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: OisinsRevenge on July 16, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
I know there are other barefoot alternitives. However I REALLY like my Vibrams and I wouldn't want anything that didn't have articulating toes. I have found I can toe pinch people with them, and the rubber makes it grip and pinch very well. of course there are other reasons too lol
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: jorgeDominik on July 17, 2009, 12:45:19 PM
The guys who run barefoot to prefer the FeelMax shoes http://www.feelmax.com/site/

At $85 [60 EU] [for the Panka] they're pricey. They're in Euro sizes. No stores in the US yet. That doesn't include shipping.
They only ship within Europe.

well given that the vibrams let me grab the corners of chain link fences with any of my toes; and that they are essentially a peice of super-grippy rubber contoured around your foot and toes

<a href="http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/jd9200/?action=view&current=Photo551.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/jd9200/Photo551.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">[/url]

<a href="http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/jd9200/?action=view&current=Photo555.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/jd9200/Photo555.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">[/url]

<a href="http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/jd9200/?action=view&current=Photo559.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/jd9200/Photo559.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">[/url]

in terms of natural barefoot protection, this is as close as it gets.. they are gloves for your feet

with exceptional grip that surpasses a lot of the shoes i've trained in
[the only thing i wouldn't do in them is go longboarding for fear of needing to foot brake
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Ozzi on July 17, 2009, 12:53:49 PM
Are we missing anything above?
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 17, 2009, 01:15:58 PM
Jorge - your links are bad...  :(
Is it because your pictures or account is set to "private"?
Anyway, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 18, 2009, 05:29:28 PM
http://www.extremeoutfitters.us/feelmaxpankamensblacksilver-2.aspx

Feelmax Niesa shoes are available from Extreme Outfitters for $79.99. They come in 7 Euro sizes, and are a basic black. I don't know what shipping expense is.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 19, 2009, 04:26:30 PM
E.Rad at NewEnglandPK doing some research:

well i did a little research on this keprotec material and found this:

"The aramide-fabric with space technology. Five times stronger than steel, gram for gram. Extremly tear and abrasion resistant. Heat- restistant and durable. Comfortable and easy to care for."

"The fabric is particularly
characterised by the
following features:
• Extremely rub resistant
• Tear resistant
• Resistant to further
tearing
• Increases the useful life
of clothing
• Easy care"

http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/kw/schoeller/services/cat1ID/128/...

so if this is talking about the same material used for the shoes then it looks like they're supposed to be pretty durable, but still having only a 1mm sole seems like it would be quite easy to rip a whole in them. I guess the only way to know for certain is to buy a pair and test em out...
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on July 23, 2009, 10:14:37 AM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/4314401.html

How barefoot runners are shaping the shoe industry... [thx to BionicGrape @ NEPK]
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on August 10, 2009, 02:43:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YZhAGduHVo

Phil Doyle - barefoot parkour from 2007.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on June 14, 2010, 12:37:14 PM
(http://www.unshodrunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/barefootoverview.jpg)

There are many benefits to barefoot running in my opinion, and one major supporter of barefoot running is Erwan Le Corre (founder of MovNat).

But, I feel that concrete, brick, etc., are much different materials then for what our feet were built for. So while I do train barefoot every so often Because I feel it improves my balance and spatial awareness, it's not something I do constantly.

And can we please get back on topic? Possibly create a new thread specifically about barefoot running, the pros & cons and all that stuff.

-David
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Sala on June 16, 2010, 01:06:10 AM
That diargram about the landings is surprisingly accurate to what i noticed about my own before i took up barefoot-edness.

Ill make sure to read those articles and post back here with my thoughts.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: baki20xx on June 16, 2010, 11:56:09 AM
I think training barefoot is THE way to train. It promotes a proper running posture on the balls of the feet and builds proper muscle structure in the foot and legs. I do as much training barefoot as I can and only use extremely low profile shoes when I have to. I think that it's better to have some type of protection and be able to sustain training rather than destroying your feet in one session and being out for long periods of recovery time.

When I do wear shoes, I've found Inov-8 to have the best shoes on the market for low profile running. They specialize in trail running shoes that have super low profile insoles but still provide moderate protection from the elements and are super grippy. Their 3mm insoles are like a piece of paper under your foot. I feel just about everything I run on in my shoes without being hurt by it. Even their 6mm thicker shoes still promote a proper toe running posture.

I have two pairs (I order them from Zappos.com). The F-LITE 230 PK's (3mm insole) for running, Pakour, olympic lifting and CrossFit type workouts. They are extremely low profile and I feel everything. They also have sticky rubber and great grip. For more hazardous conditions, I use their slightly heavier version with Goretex. The F-LITE 305 PK GTX's (6mm insole). I use them for trail running and other harsh environment training. I posted pictures of both of my pairs.

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j57/operator20xx/Random/F-Lite230PKsmall.jpg) 230's

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j57/operator20xx/Random/F-Lite305PKGTXsmall.jpg) 305's

No matter what type of shoes you wear to run, you should adopt a running style where you land on the balls of your feet (the padded area right behind your toes). This is the proper piston action for your foot and leg. By jamming on your heels every stride, you put extra stress on the shins, calves, knees, thighs and hips, which will also affect your lower back. When you run on the balls of your feet, you develop your facia muscle and you're using the entire foot and leg systems to run, spreading impacts over a more broad range of muscles and joints.

Hope this helps some of you.

Train hard and often.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on June 16, 2010, 01:10:29 PM
Steve from Inov-8 used to come to the HIpk forums almost daily. You talked more about their shoes in one post than he did in several months ;D

Thanks, for the info, tho!

I have a knack for destroying my feet in new and creative ways. I love the feel of bare on grass, sand, smooth surfaces, slow rock climbing... until they get sliced, bruised, or mangled.

One problem is I have to wear shoes most of the time, and my feet are ok for "easy" surfaces but I haven't been able to condition them for anything more than gentle walking on coarse gravel and rock, etc.

Any ideas how to make the most of my VERY limited time?
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: FrostySTL on June 16, 2010, 01:48:59 PM
Any ideas how to make the most of my VERY limited time?

Hmm, hammer dozens of tack nails up through the soles of some old shoes so only the tips poke through the inside?

Just like laying on a bed of nails!

(I don't really suggeest you do this)

You could just scoop up some beach and put it in a shallow bucket, then step up and down in it. You can do that while sitting, or doing the dishes...
That seems to be working for me some. It's slow, but doing it fast leads to blisters and callouses.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on June 16, 2010, 02:03:11 PM
I don't have a problem with sand. Tho that reminds me of the old martial arts conditioning - strike sand, then coarse sand, small gravel, medium gravel, large gravel. Maybe I'm trying to speed the progression too fast?

We have some of those vinyl mats with the pokey things on the bottom. I can jump up and down on those ok. It's gravel and dirt with scattered rock that's giving me the most trouble right now.
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: baki20xx on June 18, 2010, 01:35:39 AM
Steve from Inov-8 used to come to the HIpk forums almost daily. You talked more about their shoes in one post than he did in several months ;D

LOL. I can definitely rant sometime. haha
Title: Re: Barefoot training
Post by: Gregg HIPK on June 28, 2010, 02:21:25 PM
http://www.softstarshoes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1342&CFID=42815873&CFTOKEN=46705893

Soft Star RunAmoc's 2mm street soles or 5mm trail soles. Prob I see for the street soles is there's no water channel. That sucks on rainy days on pavement. Each step is basically hydroplaning. The design looks simple enough to maybe DIY. At >$80 I'm not willing to shell out money for these. Not yet.