American Parkour Forum

Parkour and Freerunning => Parkour And Freerunning => Topic started by: .Nico on June 09, 2006, 02:45:13 PM

Title: Disturbing...
Post by: .Nico on June 09, 2006, 02:45:13 PM
Sorry for starting so many posts recently, I have just been thinking a lot lately. This will the last one for a while, I am off to summer.

I was reading around on parkour.net, and I think you guys should read these two threads. If you have the time, I definately recommend reading all the way through. Look for posts by pkdanno and herbertiste, especially.

http://parkour.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5144&forum=4
http://parkour.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5158&forum=1

I am not going into detail about what these threads imply. Read them, and share what you think.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 09, 2006, 03:05:29 PM
I'm really surprised to see Chau Belle Dinh there.  It is disturbing...  I haven't read the whole thing yet, though.

EDIT:  Danno's posts are very inciteful.  It's good that he's there.  He's an amazing guy (who just happens to be a mod like... everywhere).

Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Jereme Sanders on June 09, 2006, 03:15:55 PM
Glad these threads are making their rounds on the boards...everyone should read these threads...its all good stuff
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Nom on June 09, 2006, 03:20:59 PM
It is strange but rather expected to see what parkour is becomming. Danno and Erwan's posts were great. On the flip side I have set of conflicting thoughts.
A. Let people do what they want and don't hate them for it. If you can find a way to and want to make money for yourself with parkour, fine, do what you will. If parkour becomes a sport, great, I can choose not to be a part of it.
B. The other side of this is that I really don't want to see parkour become a sport, something people do just for excercise, I think it should be more than that. While it's fun and all there is a lot of personal insight to be garnered from training.

When parkour becomes what I think it inevitably will become then drop the name. The word Parkour isn't important - It's the spirit behind it.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 09, 2006, 03:23:00 PM
I have to say...  We all know that this was going to come.  We have known it for a very long time.  What we have to do is remain steadfast.  Danno is right.  So long as we stay the course, no group or organization can interfere at all.  Just train.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 09, 2006, 03:43:11 PM
http://www.pkto.ca/videos/DavidsBailandmessage.wmv

This is the video Danno's talking about, btw.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Steez on June 09, 2006, 03:53:00 PM
yes there are disturbing ideas within these threads...but there is also alot of hope.  Whether or not what is being called Parkour is Parkour, the true discipline will always exist somewhere.  And if the word Parkour gets too corrupt and tainted...I don't have much of a problem letting go of it, it's just a word.  What truly matters is whether or not the art stays alive, under whatever name, in whatever locations. 
that's what matters.

yes everyone read through both threads in entirety!  there are alot of great thoughts and arguments provided.  mental nourishment!

also, i was deeply affected by alot of the words written, and by that vid of david.  I realized a few things that i'm going to try to implement into my training, and into everything in general....heavy stuff.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Argon on June 09, 2006, 04:30:34 PM
Wow. "This is the real parkour".

For me, that changes everything. I've been doing this stuff all wrong. Time to go out and train in a way conducive to my own self-satisfaction with my individual performance.

Belle is a perfect example of why the best leaders are those who genuinely have no real desire to lead.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: The Manilla Gorilla on June 09, 2006, 06:20:07 PM
I post too much
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Gearsighted on June 09, 2006, 07:25:42 PM
Indeed, nothing new. Go train, get off the damn computer, don't act like an ass the one time you get a chance to meet David Belle...there's a reason I spent the whole time after the movie premiere sitting upstairs...it WAS quite embarassing, but I guess kids will be kids. Don't make a movie if you don't want to be a star  ::)

I guess the fact that people might need David Belle...or really ANYBODY to tell them to get off their ass and make their training and their purpose into something of their own choosing means as much as anything else. If you're waiting for somebody else to spur you on, forget it. It's time to take the reigns and decide what you want to make of yourself and your training.

Goodnight and good luck.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 09, 2006, 09:10:52 PM
Good movie, that.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Valigon on June 14, 2006, 03:44:33 PM
well i didnt read all of it, but i did read the part about parkour becoming just another comerial sport with sponsership, and its already happinging, one of the members of my team has sponsership... He got sponsered for Skateboarding, then later the same company found out about him doing parkour and gave him more stuf and money for that to, all he has to do is run around doing parkour whenever hes at anything for skateboarding. i think its disqusting but hes all for it. gets him free shoes....
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Brian Belida on June 14, 2006, 04:52:37 PM
Guys, don't waste your time. True there are some good things said by Thomas and relayed by Danno, but honestly, don't waste your time perusing those threads; go out and train. Train your parkour, train lifting heavy things, practice holding your breath under water. Go out and better yourself in something.

My new motto? "Be prepared."
Prove that you're better than petty arguments and silly politics. Don't add to the endless cycle of quarrels.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Pat Kerby on June 19, 2006, 10:50:15 PM
It's all starting to sound like arguing about religion.  The problem is that a person's spirituality is one of the most personal things that there is.  It is something different for everyone, so trying to pigeonhole a spiritual practice into one discipline, or one name is impossible.  For some, it's a fun game that they can now make some money with.  Great for them.  For some, it's a way of life that brings a wisper of character to an uncharismatic world.  Good for them too.  There is no winning this argument, and calling people sellouts is certainly not going to improve things.   
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Steez on June 20, 2006, 02:24:15 PM
well no, there is no definitive 'right' argument, so there cannot be a resolution of the argument.  Pat Kerby, you're also correct about calling people sellouts.
people tend to become their beliefs, so everyone (generalization!) comes to an argument 'knowing' that they are right, when in fact everyone should realize that they are partly right and partly wrong, as is the other parties in the discussion.  Once we can become separate from our beliefs, we can become truly open minded.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Josh Maciel on June 20, 2006, 04:08:26 PM
Um...yeah
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Johnny Boy on June 20, 2006, 05:51:15 PM
I didn't know about those arguments, and don't really care. Good point's by Danno in particular but really! Stop worrying and go practise the parkour you know is right.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Gearsighted on June 21, 2006, 12:39:49 PM
Steez, excellent point. There is no "right" and "wrong" so much as there is a huge myriad of opposing opinions and viewpoints clashing at all times. I've always love the quote "The true sign of intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas and still function".
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: shiroboi on June 21, 2006, 01:21:22 PM
I'm actually a member over on parkour.net so I had seen this post awhile ago.  Even though this stuff is worth knowing about, the activity we do, that we enjoy, running over things, getting from point A to point B, its all still there.  I'm going to go home and work out today knowing full well David Belle has labled parkour as sport.


The people that are getting their worlds rocked right now are the ones that take parkour too seriously.  By that I mean not seriously training hard and wanting to get better, but taking parkour and trying to transform it into some quasi-religious spiritual thing when its not.  David has openly admitted that it isn't a complete discipline but people follow it anyway beliving that theres some sort of life truth in living a simple life and getting from point A to point B.  Now David has up and turned their religion into a sport.  How dare he!  Seriously, I respect David because he's doing whats best for himself and we should follow his example by doing whats best for ourselves too,  which right now, is doing what we have been doing and practicing the old parkour.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 21, 2006, 01:35:52 PM
I'm actually a member over on parkour.net so I had seen this post awhile ago.  Even though this stuff is worth knowing about, the activity we do, that we enjoy, running over things, getting from point A to point B, its all still there.  I'm going to go home and work out today knowing full well David Belle has labled parkour as sport.


The people that are getting their worlds rocked right now are the ones that take parkour too seriously.  By that I mean not seriously training hard and wanting to get better, but taking parkour and trying to transform it into some quasi-religious spiritual thing when its not.  David has openly admitted that it isn't a complete discipline but people follow it anyway beliving that theres some sort of life truth in living a simple life and getting from point A to point B.  Now David has up and turned their religion into a sport.  How dare he!  Seriously, I respect David because he's doing whats best for himself and we should follow his example by doing whats best for ourselves too,  which right now, is doing what we have been doing and practicing the old parkour.

He didn't really call it a sport.  And he means "not a complete discipline' by the fact that no one is supposed to define it.  You're simply supposed to do it.  Train for yourself.  Don't worry about what others say or do because it does not affect you or your Parkour.  The discipline is your own.  That's what he meant.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: shiroboi on June 21, 2006, 07:12:33 PM
Just wanna quote a few passages to bolster my statement.  If you haven't read all 5 pages of the thread in question, then you should do so.



    Hebertiste wrote:
    Parkour anyways is turning into a sport, officially.

another poster wrote:
You have knoledge that David is ok with makeing parkour a sport?

To which Herbertiste replies:

Yes

Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Jaxcolon on June 21, 2006, 08:03:35 PM
this kinda reminds me of an article in a maxium i read acouple months ago... the greatest thing i have ever read. sometimes people need things to make them realize other things in their life, sometime you get caught in some sort of rut and blinded until someone or something removes the covers from your eyes.

a guy, who in highschool was a star track runner and played all kinds of sports, got a desk job, he worked 40-50 hours a week in a cubical. gained like 100lbs after graduated highschool going to college and getting this job. one day he just happened to watch the movie fight club and something clicked.... his life was passing before him as he just sat at that desk, then came home, watched tv and went to sleep. the next day after watching the movie he called in sick and went to a gym. he began leaving work early to run and swim and better himself. shorty after he quit his 40k job to become a carpenter. worked less hours and learned a new skill he became proud of. he dropped the weight and got back in shape. one of my favorite quotes (not word for word, im doing it from memory) was "its human nature, to lift heavy things, to try and run down a gazelle, and swim long distances."


(one of my favorite fightclub quotes... there's like a billion)
"this is your life, and its ending one minute at a time."
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 21, 2006, 08:06:41 PM
Just wanna quote a few passages to bolster my statement.  If you haven't read all 5 pages of the thread in question, then you should do so.



    Hebertiste wrote:
    Parkour anyways is turning into a sport, officially.

another poster wrote:
You have knoledge that David is ok with makeing parkour a sport?

To which Herbertiste replies:

Yes



And Belle also said that it's imperative that we get used to the idea that the word "Parkour" may no longer be attached to the spirit of what we do.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Mark Toorock on June 22, 2006, 03:42:59 AM
Quote
And he means "not a complete discipline' by the fact that no one is supposed to define it

I totally disgaree with that. David Also does gymnastics, acrobatics, and martial arts (I'm sure among other things).

By "not a complete discipline" I think he means "not a complete discipline". In that if all you did was practice movement from A to B, then all you would be good at is getting somewhere fast. That's not nearly complete, look at methode naturalle, look at reading, at life safety skills, at emt and first responder skills, look at olympic weightlifting, grappling, negotiation. I've said many times before, what good is getting somewhere fast if you're not prepared to be useful when you get there?

What's really disturing to me is all the hypocrites clilngin tightly to David's words and saying that you should be out practicing, not clinging tightly to David's words. Yes, there are things we can learn from him, he is a great and accomplished human being in certain aspects, in others there are people far more accomplished, this is natural, especially when one is a pioneer in a certain field. Gymnasts are way better at gymnastics. I'm guessing a dedicated 10 years martial artist is generally more skilled and knowledgable in martial arts than he is. A doctor is better trained in paramedic skills than he is. And That's all OK.

In my opinion, it is best not to try to become like David, or to "follow" David, but instead try to use what he has learrned to lead your own direction, your own path.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: shiroboi on June 22, 2006, 10:29:26 AM
I agree with the statment about David saying that parkour may not be attatched to the spirit of what we do.  Thats why I call it The Art of Displacement taken from the french, Le art du deplacement.  That encompasses parkour, free running, tricking, the yamasaki and everything inbetween.
Title: Re: Disturbing...
Post by: Andy Animus Tran on June 22, 2006, 01:15:40 PM
I agree with the statment about David saying that parkour may not be attatched to the spirit of what we do.  Thats why I call it The Art of Displacement taken from the french, Le art du deplacement.  That encompasses parkour, free running, tricking, the yamasaki and everything inbetween.

L'art du deplacement has certain things attached to it, too.  I've since just begun to decide that it needs no name...  It's the "spirit."  And that's all it needs to be.

And LoL to "Yamasaki".  Sounds like some weird Japanese beer.  (Just in case you think I'm a weirdo and can't figure out what I"m laughing at, it's cause the group's name is "Yamakasi".)