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Fitness and Training => General Fitness => Diet => Topic started by: Chris Salvato on October 12, 2008, 08:28:14 PM

Title: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on October 12, 2008, 08:28:14 PM
PREFACE NOTES

EDIT - Quinoa has been removed from my list of "other good foods".  This was done for consistency in this installment of the article series I plan to write.  Quinoa is very calorically dense and it is not a good choice when learning how to eat properly.  Quinoa is a great food, but its place is not in the program for someone just getting started, in my opinion.

Eating Right: How to Get Started

One thing that I want to reiterate from Steve's article, How to construct your own workout routine (http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php?topic=9469.msg113182#msg113182), is that diet itself will *NOT* put on any muscle mass, for most people, anyway.  While a small amount of weight loss is possible with purely dietary changes, proper diet must be coupled with an appropriate training regimen for your body composition goals in order to achieve optimal results.

I am attempting to keep this short so that most people will be able to fix their diet without going into too much detail.

This article will not address the dozens of ideologies and schemes that exist in mainstream dieting (high carb, low carb, etc.) nor will it address things like why breads/grains are poor dietary choices.  Rather, it will address a structured, simple methodology to increase the "quality" of your food.  This is what most credible nutritional sources will say is the first step to proper nutrition.

I. High Quality Food Categories

Without going into much detail we can boil high quality nutrition down to 7 basic categories:
1) Vegetables - Source of carb
2) Fruits - Source of carb
3) Beans - Source of carb
4) Meats - Source of protein
5) Fish - Source of protein
6) Nuts - Source of fat
7) Seeds - Source of fat

Additionally, there are some high quality foods that are rather ambiguous and need to be addressed individually:
A) Olives - Source of fat. 
B) Avocados - Source of fat.
C) Coconuts - Source of fat.
D) Eggs - Excellent source of protein.  Interchangeable with meat sources. (1 Whole egg = 1 Oz meat...or... 2 Egg Whites = 1 Oz Meat)
E) Dairy
F) Oatmeal - Eat this once daily, if possible, as part of a balanced meal (which means you need to include protein and fat.)
G) Olive Oil - Source of fat.  If trying to gain weight, pour it on everything including ice cream.  Well...maybe not ice cream, but you get the point.

II. Menu Creation

With these categories, you can make a comprehensive menu of foods.  On your own, personal menu, you should list any and all foods in these categories that you not only enjoy, but that you can just tolerate.  As you get more used to eating better, the foods you can barely stand now will start to taste better, as well.  Remember, it takes 21 days on any regimen, whether its exercise, diet, or even a new job, before the whole ordeal becomes routine in your brain.  Keep this in mind as you transition into your new diet that you will need three weeks to acclimate psychologically and physiologically.

For clarity, an example of a good starting menu is shown below:
(http://x44.xanga.com/6a6f157420632215499183/w168502728.gif)

When you make your own menu, I suggest that you carry it around with you everywhere you go.  The goal is to constantly expand the menu as you learn new food items that you enjoy that fit into these categories.

III. 5 Simple Rules

These categories come with a basic set of 5 simple rules for each meal:
1) Many Veggies - At least 2 cups (total) of veggies with every meal.  These can be spruced up by cooking with Onions, Garlic, Spices and Olive Oil.
2) Always Meat - At least 4-6 oz (palm sized portion or larger) or LEAN meat or fish.  LEAN meat is poultry (chicken, turkey, hen) and lean cuts of beef.  Pork is not lean.  Avoid beef all together when you are first starting since it is hard to identify the lean cuts when you are new.  Some people eat over a pound of meat/fish each sitting, depending on their goals.  4-6 oz minimum is a good place to start.
3) Fruits Vary - Some fruits like bananas, pears, peaches and apples are loaded with sugars.  Limit the intake of such fruits to 1 per meal.  Other fruits like berries and melon can be eaten with virtually no limit.  Berries should be a staple in all diets due to their high concentration of anti-oxidants. More information on the amount of calories in these fruits can be found by searching www.nutritiondata.com
4) Replacing Veggies - If you aren't in the mood for veggies, you can replace 1 cup beans for every 2 cups veggies.  You can also eat beans with your vegetables, if you like.  Try not to put veggies off but its okay to do so sometimes.  Veggies can also be replaced by fruit.  High quantities of the low calorie fruits (berries, melons, etc.) or low quantities (1-2 pieces) of the high calorie items (bananas, dates, peaches, pears, etc.)
5) Eat Fat - Eat nuts, seeds, olives, avocado, coconut or olive oil with every meal.  For weight loss, you want around 6-10 nuts, half an ounce of seeds, a 4-6 olives, 1/4 of an avocado, 25g coconut or 1 tsp of Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO) .  For weight gain, eat significantly more than these quantities...you will know when you had enough if you are trying to gain.  As you lose fat and your goals change, realize that the amount of fat that you need will change as well!

IV. Snacking

Snacking is acceptable when you are just focusing on improving the quality of your food.  Snacking is encouraged by some methodologies and discouraged by others.  Both have good reason for these recommendations and it usually depends on your goals.  However, for those just starting, make sure your snacks only come from foods on your menu.  If possible, make snacks contain a source of fat, carb and protein so that they are "balanced".

V. Supplementation

One final note is that supplementation is something that should be done only when one knows what they are doing.  Most times, supplements will be a waste of your time and money.  The best way to get everything you need is through whole foods.  However, I suggest three supplements below that I believe everyone should make part of their daily routine.  Supplementing as specified below is relatively inexpensive when compared to the benefits MOST HUMAN BEINGS experience from this supplementation.

A) Supplement with 3-5g of fish oil daily.  At a bare minimum, take in 2 grams.  Every day.
B) Drink Green Tea.  Every day.  If you are concerned about caffeine, brew one cup with a green tea bag, discard the water, then use the same tea bag with fresh, boiling water.  This eliminates most of the caffeine while maintaining most of the anti-oxiants for which we are drinking the tea.
C) 2 multivitamin pills daily, with food.  Every day.  Centrum brand is cheap and should be just fine.

Happy dieting, and feel free to post your menus below for critique!
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Christian Greene on October 12, 2008, 08:59:24 PM
Thank you <3
hahah
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Charles Moreland on October 12, 2008, 09:11:08 PM
finally...      ;)
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Sat Santokh on October 12, 2008, 09:37:45 PM
Aren't beans a complete amino acid, why do you have them listed as carb?  Also you should throw quinoa on there its a complete amino acid and is very healthy, cheap, and easy to make.  http://chetday.com/quinoa.html
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: KC Parsons on October 13, 2008, 06:50:56 AM
Beautiful.
I'm glad someone was able to finally lay out basic, yet effective dietary guidelines, without getting too complicated.

You rock, Chris.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on October 13, 2008, 08:05:16 AM
Aren't beans a complete amino acid, why do you have them listed as carb?  Also you should throw quinoa on there its a complete amino acid and is very healthy, cheap, and easy to make.  http://chetday.com/quinoa.html

Good question Sat.  This is something that comes up quite often as most people think Beans and Quinoa are a good source of protein.

Short Answer
For those who don't care about details, there are significantly more carbs than protein in quinoa and ALL beans.

Long Answer
For those who DO care about details, I would like to present my argument with the following point in mind: the Protein in beans, grain and vegetable sources is NOT absorbed with the same efficacy as the proteins from animal sources.  This is the best quick reference I could find, but it is fairly accurate:
http://www.myfit.ca/archives/viewanarticle.asp?table=nutrition&id=24&subject=Protein+Absorption

Quote
Eggs                        100
Fish                           70 (Salmon is the best)
Cow's Milk                  60
Lean Beef                   69
Soybeans                   47
Dry Beans                  34
Peanuts                     43
Whole-grain Wheat     44
Brown Rice                57
White Rice                 56
White Potato              34

According to this table, beans have roughly 34% rate of absorption.  This is the figure I will be using to calculate the net protein absorption for beans here on out.  I am unsure of Quinoa's protein absorption, but it should be similar to those of Whole-grain wheat as it is a grain/seed itself.

Another quick view of this table reinforces the point that those protein sources that are not from animals tend to have less than 60% rate of absorption.

Now that this is clear, lets look at how this boils down when we examine portions of beans (and quinoa).

Note: All macronutrient quantities are based off of the links provided for 100g servings.

String/Snap Beans - http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2341/2
Fat       0 g
Carb     7 g
[Fiber    3 g]
Protein  2 g

Net Carb         7-3 = 4g
Net Protein      2 * 0.34 = 0.68 g

Net Carb/Raw Protein Ratio - 1.89 (This means that if the protein was absorbed at a rate of 100% this would be the multiple of how many calories are due to carb rather than protein)
Net Carb/Net Protein Ratio -  5.88 (This means it has 5.88x the amount of carb compared to protein.)


Kidney Beans - http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4424/2
Fat       0 g
Carb     23 g
[Fiber    6 g]
Protein  9 g

Net Carb         23-6 = 17 g
Net Protein      9 * 0.34 = 3.06 g

Net Carb/Raw Protein Ratio - 1.89
Net Carb/Net Protein Ratio -  5.55

Pinto Beans - http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4430/2
Fat       1 g
Carb     26 g
[Fiber    9 g]
Protein  9 g

Net Carb         26-9 = 17 g
Net Protein      9 * 0.34 = 3.06 g

Net Carb/Raw Protein Ratio - 1.89
Net Carb/Net Protein Ratio -  5.55

Garbanzo Beans/Chickpeas - http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/2
Fat       3 g
Carb     27 g
[Fiber    8 g]
Protein  9 g

Net Carb         27-8 = 19 g
Net Protein      9 * 0.34 = 3.06 g

Net Carb/Raw Protein Ratio - 2.11
Net Carb/Net Protein Ratio -  6.21

Quinoa - http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/2
Fat       2 g
Carb     21 g
[Fiber    3 g]
Protein  4 g

Net Carb         21-3 = 17 g
Net Protein      4 * 0.44 =  1.76 g

Net Carb/Raw Protein Ratio - 4.25
Net Carb/Net Protein Ratio -  9.66

-----------

From the exhibition of this data, it should be really clear that pretty much all beans have a much more significant component of carb as opposed to protein despite their complete amino profile. 

Because of the complete amino profile, any proteins absorbed from beans will be put to good use, however, the amount of proteins that are absorbed is so small when compared to the carb that it is usually just considered a good source of carb.

Another reason beans are great to have in the diet is that they are higher in caloric density, making it easier to consume these for higher calorie diets that we need, while keeping the Glycemic Index low AND the Glycemic load low (since there is a lot of protein and fiber to buffer the absorption).

In conclusion, beans and quinoa are a great source of carb due to the low GI and GL.  However, they are not a good primary source of protein since they have little protein that is actually absorbed into the bloodstream due to their low protein concentration coupled with low rate of protein absorption.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Zachary Cohn on October 13, 2008, 10:15:23 AM
I touched this thread... and it's all goopy like.. I can't get it off my hands. It's very stickied

Edit - I suck at reading.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on November 16, 2008, 06:51:12 PM
I definitely agree with Chris that beans are a good source of carbs.
They are also a decent source of protein however (compared to many other sources of carbs that are mostly just carbs). But you want to separate the absorption (something that can be lowered by fibers or cooked/uncooked state of food) and the aminoacid balance. That table is actually off on the order of foods but claims to be just based on aminoacid balance, and that can be compensated for by having a varied diet.

So if someone really likes to eat beans for whatever reasons (taste, resistance to gas hehe, etc), they can just make sure they also consume (not necessarily simultaneously) some other sources of proteins that somewhat complement their aminoacids. If you only ate beans all day instead, then aminoacid balance would be much more of a concern. Doing math on 'net protein' based on aminoacid balance value is not correct or useful unless you look at how things actually balance out in a day.

Another small point I wanted to make is supplementation cost, because I think in many cases that is much cheaper than equivalent food. Two prime examples are multivitamin/multimineral pills and bulk protein powders.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on November 16, 2008, 07:18:11 PM
So if someone really likes to eat beans for whatever reasons (taste, resistance to gas hehe, etc), they can just make sure they also consume (not necessarily simultaneously) some other sources of proteins that somewhat complement their aminoacids. If you only ate beans all day instead, then aminoacid balance would be much more of a concern. Doing math on 'net protein' based on aminoacid balance value is not correct or useful unless you look at how things actually balance out in a day.

Once again, that table was just used as a rough basis for protein absorption (which is similar to the amino acid balance, which is why I used it...)

Sorry for any confusion, but the math is still valid, albeit mildly skewed.

Also, cost aside, most supplements are a waste of money unless you know what you are doing with them...and doesn't really have its place in this article....which is why I didn't discuss them aside from multivitamin (for getting started) fish oil and green tea.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on November 16, 2008, 08:08:36 PM
well, not to be too picky (but rather to leave the most accurate information in stickied threads), people should keep in mind that protein absorption and aminoacid balance are two completely different things with very different causes and consequences.

Also while you could reasonably do math on net protein based on absorption (for example from cooked vs raw eggs or interference of fiber), doing math on aminoacid balance is not just skewing the results a little, it's skewing the results by a lot or just gives you a completely wrong result. A food with say 30% value due to its aminoacid balance will easily double or more in value depending on what else you consumed during the day (these foods are often rate limited by a single aminoacid which is often in excess in other foods you are likely to consume).
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on November 16, 2008, 08:09:58 PM
find a table on protein absorption, PM it to me, and I will redo the math

I can't find the table i like and I don't feel scouring the internet again for it when the results will be fairly similar...
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Broc on November 16, 2008, 08:38:03 PM
cool! i'm surprised to find that i take in many of the foods on that list daily, along with the fish oil and multi vitamins
thank you mom for making me home cooked meals  ;D  lol
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on November 16, 2008, 08:40:59 PM
cool! i'm surprised to find that i take in many of the foods on that list daily, along with the fish oil and multi vitamins
thank you mom for making me home cooked meals  ;D  lol

do you eat bread?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on November 16, 2008, 09:31:34 PM
find a table on protein absorption, PM it to me, and I will redo the math

I can't find the table i like and I don't feel scouring the internet again for it when the results will be fairly similar...
Well it's much easier for me to find problems in something than to give a perfect replacement for it ;) but I would at least improve it by replacing it with something like the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, which takes into account both absorption differences from digestion and aminoacid balance in a bit more accurate way.

Keep in mind it still has its limitations:
-foods like whole soy have special chemicals that prevent absorbption of proteins which are not factored in this value
-effect of combining food with complementary aminoacids is not taken into account.
-all these are approximations. We do have exact values for just a handful of foods where we actually measured nitrogen retention directly instead of just making assumptions and approximations.

But keeping those points in mind the values are still very useful, and I can somewhat correct for them here. The link to a summary and the original paper describing PDCAA and resulting table is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score), and for convenience I am copying and correcting (in green) the list below:

whey (1.0)
egg white (1.0) (!) (if cooked, just 0.5 if raw)
casein (1.0)
milk (1.0)
soy protein isolate (1.00)
beans + grains (~1.00) (!) (if consumed in relative amounts on the same day)
beef (0.92)
soybean (0.91) (!) (actually lower than 0.91 due to tannins, fibers etc)
kidney beans (0.68)
rye (0.68)
whole wheat (0.54)
lentils (0.52)
peanuts (0.52)
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on November 16, 2008, 09:44:34 PM
find a table on protein absorption, PM it to me, and I will redo the math

I can't find the table i like and I don't feel scouring the internet again for it when the results will be fairly similar...
Well it's much easier for me to find problems in something than to give a perfect replacement for it ;) but I would at least improve it by replacing it with something like the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, which takes into account both absorption differences from digestion and aminoacid balance in a bit more accurate way.

Keep in mind it still has its limitations:
-foods like whole soy have special chemicals that prevent absorbption of proteins which are not factored in this value
-effect of combining food with complementary aminoacids is not taken into account.
-all these are approximations. We do have exact values for just a handful of foods where we actually measured nitrogen retention directly instead of just making assumptions and approximations.

But keeping those points in mind the values are still very useful, and I can somewhat correct for them here. The link to a summary and the original paper describing PDCAA and resulting table is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score), and for convenience I am copying and correcting (in green) the list below:

whey (1.0)
egg white (1.0) (!) (if cooked, just 0.5 if raw)
casein (1.0)
milk (1.0)
soy protein isolate (1.00)
beans + grains (~1.00) (!) (if consumed in relative amounts on the same day)
beef (0.92)
soybean (0.91) (!) (actually lower than 0.91 due to tannins, fibers etc)
kidney beans (0.68)
rye (0.68)
whole wheat (0.54)
lentils (0.52)
peanuts (0.52)

I have read from some credible sources that protein "completion" by eating a complete amino profile was totally whack.  If you can provide counter-evidence I will consider it -- since the person who conceptualized that idea is also the main opponent for it is compelling evidence for me that its crap...so...
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on November 16, 2008, 10:09:30 PM
find a table on protein absorption, PM it to me, and I will redo the math

I can't find the table i like and I don't feel scouring the internet again for it when the results will be fairly similar...
Well it's much easier for me to find problems in something than to give a perfect replacement for it ;) but I would at least improve it by replacing it with something like the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, which takes into account both absorption differences from digestion and aminoacid balance in a bit more accurate way.

Keep in mind it still has its limitations:
-foods like whole soy have special chemicals that prevent absorbption of proteins which are not factored in this value
-effect of combining food with complementary aminoacids is not taken into account.
-all these are approximations. We do have exact values for just a handful of foods where we actually measured nitrogen retention directly instead of just making assumptions and approximations.

But keeping those points in mind the values are still very useful, and I can somewhat correct for them here. The link to a summary and the original paper describing PDCAA and resulting table is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score), and for convenience I am copying and correcting (in green) the list below:

whey (1.0)
egg white (1.0) (!) (if cooked, just 0.5 if raw)
casein (1.0)
milk (1.0)
soy protein isolate (1.00)
beans + grains (~1.00) (!) (if consumed in relative amounts on the same day)
beef (0.92)
soybean (0.91) (!) (actually lower than 0.91 due to tannins, fibers etc)
kidney beans (0.68)
rye (0.68)
whole wheat (0.54)
lentils (0.52)
peanuts (0.52)

I have read from some credible sources that protein "completion" by eating a complete amino profile was totally whack.  If you can provide counter-evidence I will consider it -- since the person who conceptualized that idea is also the main opponent for it is compelling evidence for me that its crap...so...
That's a common misunderstanding unfortunately. The only part about this that is, as you say, "totally whack" is that you must eat those foods in the same meal to improve protein value. You don't.
(well, you can too, but it's not necessary to get this benefit).

What is absolutely correct and undeniable is all proteins will be broken down into the same sets of aminoacids and the body doesn't keep track of which food they came from, so once they are circulating in your body they will all be available (mixed) and it's only the total combined proportion that matters.

So, in a way, Protein Combining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_complementation) is both absolutely correct and wrong or unnecessary, depending on what you mean by it (see the link I give at the start of this sentence for more discussion, sources and references).

So again eating something like grains and beans in the same day makes both protein sources better, but they don't have to be mixed in the same meal, that doesn't really matter.

I am sure the sources you allude to either understand and agree with all this or likely don't have any scientifically plausible argument against it. If you can find even a single argument or fact against it I will be glad to look it over and discuss it with you.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on November 17, 2008, 04:51:01 AM
With non-animal sources you still have the following flaws:

1) Overwhelming amounts of carbs compared to protein concentrations (which is what I was trying to illustrate).  Even if you ignore the "net protein" calculations, there is significantly more (multiples more....) carb vs. protein which is the real main issue.
2) Lack of nitrogen necessary for putting proteins to "good use" in the body that can only be provided by animals sources that produce nitrogen that we cannot.

Re: protein sources.

NITROGEN. All amino acids have nitrogen in them and they must have nitrogen in them to make peptide bonds. Nitrogen is highly toxic to our bodies (like most other things), so we have a pathway called the urea cycle which processes amino acids into urea which our body excretes into urine.

UNFORTUNATELY, since nitrogen is toxic, there are pretty much no other biological sources of nitrogen that we can intake besides proteins that our body can process. Therefore, if you have no extra nitrogen sources, your body cannot make amino acids which is the take 99% of the time (the few exceptions are DNA which have nitrogenous bases.. but this is very, very, very small amount compared to how much you get from meat, fish, eggs, etc.). Thus, these protein metabolism pathways are mainly for getting rid of nitrogen OR if you have too much of say one amino acid it can convert it into another non-essential amino acid.

All humans MUST have adequate protein intake... not just essential amino acid intake. You can't just randomly "create" amino acids like you're thinking of because the parts are scarce (nitrogen) and only really abundant in meat, fish, eggs, etc.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on November 17, 2008, 12:07:05 PM
With non-animal sources you still have the following flaws:

1) Overwhelming amounts of carbs compared to protein concentrations (which is what I was trying to illustrate).  Even if you ignore the "net protein" calculations, there is significantly more (multiples more....) carb vs. protein which is the real main issue.
2) Lack of nitrogen necessary for putting proteins to "good use" in the body that can only be provided by animals sources that produce nitrogen that we cannot.
Well I definitely agree that beans and grains come with a lot of carbs which is not always desirable (usually a 1:1 ratio or more). That's the same reason why I wouldn't recommend egg yolks, because they come with a lot of fat (2x fat for each gram of protein) which is also not desirable and makes it harder to balance your calories and energy sources.

However I don't think I follow you at all on nitrogen, because animal sources are not any different in terms of nitrogen. You also don't need extra nitrogen in any form to make peptide bonds, you just need to put any 2 aminoacids close together.
Animals don't produce nitrogen either, generally the only thing that fixates nitrogen and creates new aminoacids are plants and bacteria, not animals (they simply consume it and store it).

There is no special difference in nitrogen in proteins from different sources, nitrogen is just contained in the chemical structure of each aminoacid, so if you are getting 5 grams of soy protein or 5 grams of beef protein you get the same amount of nitrogen in your body as proteins.

The only advantage that meat has is in creatine and maybe any extra hormones you might get for free, but those are unrelated to the issue of proteins and nitrogen.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: bikket on December 03, 2008, 08:12:34 AM
Hey guys, quick question:

My only meat sources are fish and eggs, so what kind of adjustments should I make to the program you've laid out here?

And no, I will not begin eating terrestrials. Not unless the economy tanks completely and the woods become my supermarket.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: FMurray on December 03, 2008, 08:28:20 AM
And what to drink? Just water and green tea?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on December 03, 2008, 08:54:05 AM
Hey guys, quick question:

My only meat sources are fish and eggs, so what kind of adjustments should I make to the program you've laid out here?

And no, I will not begin eating terrestrials. Not unless the economy tanks completely and the woods become my supermarket.

Why no terrestrials?  I don't care, just asking.

Diversify the fish you eat to keep it interesting.  Fish, if you can afford it consistently, is one of the best sources of meat/protein on the planet for several reasons.

Same rules apply.  Fish/Eggs with every meal, many veggies.

And what to drink? Just water and green tea?

Water, Green Tea and Milk -- if your stomach/ideologies/dieting style allows for milk, that is.  Fruit juice is good in MODERATION...small small quantities...best to avoid it when just getting started.

Any sort of tea is good, too -- but green tea is the best.

Coffee is ok too, i just get weary of telling people its ok to drink coffee because then they drink it every day and it results in a drug addiction, stressed liver and stressed GI tract.

Avoid soft drinks or alcohol.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: nasty on December 03, 2008, 01:20:48 PM
thanks for this. i am in the process of getting clean and sober and the diet and my training are 2 of my biggest areas that need to be worked on. this is a big help. again, thanks.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on December 03, 2008, 01:35:26 PM
Diversify the fish you eat to keep it interesting.  Fish, if you can afford it consistently, is one of the best sources of meat/protein on the planet for several reasons.

Same rules apply.  Fish/Eggs with every meal, many veggies.
Just a quick side note, if you make fish your main source of protein, you might want to be careful about how often you eat it and which fish you eat, due to methyl-mercury that naturally accumulated in fish, especially large fish, and especially fish that eat fish who just ate even smaller fish, because each time the accumulated levels get magnified.
Methyl Mercury is toxic, not as toxic as Di-Methyl Mercury of course, that's like insanely toxic, as in one thousands of a ml will kill you (but it doesn't appear in fish so I digress), but still fairly toxic and can easily keep accumulating in your body (half-life in your blood is like 2 months, and probably more in tissues like your brain).

So basically if you plan to eat a lot of fish, try to avoid large, long-lived, top-of-the-foodchain fish as much as possible and still try to mix in other great toxin-free protein sources like dairy, eggs, and protein powders.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on December 03, 2008, 01:45:05 PM
Diversify the fish you eat to keep it interesting.  Fish, if you can afford it consistently, is one of the best sources of meat/protein on the planet for several reasons.

Same rules apply.  Fish/Eggs with every meal, many veggies.
Just a quick side note, if you make fish your main source of protein, you might want to be careful about how often you eat it and which fish you eat, due to methyl-mercury that naturally accumulated in fish, especially large fish, and especially fish that eat fish who just ate even smaller fish, because each time the accumulated levels get magnified.
Methyl Mercury is toxic, not as toxic as Di-Methyl Mercury of course, that's like insanely toxic, as in one thousands of a ml will kill you (but it doesn't appear in fish so I digress), but still fairly toxic and can easily keep accumulating in your body (half-life in your blood is like 2 months, and probably more in tissues like your brain).

So basically if you plan to eat a lot of fish, try to avoid large, long-lived, top-of-the-foodchain fish as much as possible and still try to mix in other great toxin-free protein sources like dairy, eggs, and protein powders.

+1 Good advice
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: geeko55 on December 03, 2008, 02:16:50 PM
What about vegetarians? I've been vegetarian for around 2.5 years now, and I'm waiting to get back to training, what are some good vegetarian meals to get my body in good shape while I wait out the winter months?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on December 03, 2008, 02:29:33 PM
If you want vegetarian meals, you should PM Muse_of_Fire as she has a ton of recipes/cookbook recommendations on preparations of food.

If you want to just increase the quality of food...that is, you are just getting started, all the menu items and rules applies...just your meat/fish category would be blank.

If you want to train seriously you WILL need a protein source...something like Tofu, Soy Isolate, Whey Isolate (if you don't mind the protein being from milk), etc.

Most soy products contain a decent amount of carbs too unless the protein is isolated.  Currently, I am in the middle of a more in-depth analysis of soy, its isolated protein and it's dangers if it is the ONLY protein source...all the gurus i have spoken with have alluded to the many dangers of soy but I need to look this up in more detail....

As a side note, most people who I have seen get into training as vegetarians either give up training or vegetarianism given due time...but that's just my experience.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: niv on December 03, 2008, 08:59:53 PM
This advice is great! Simple and effective.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on December 04, 2008, 12:35:20 AM
As a side note, most people who I have seen get into training as vegetarians either give up training or vegetarianism given due time...but that's just my experience.
I know this was just a small side point, and I agree with the other points you were making, but I wanted to comment on this because it depends a lot on what type of vegetarian diet you use and why you do it.

If you eat eggs and dairy and just don't want to kill stuff (meat/fish), it's not too difficult to compensate nutritionally for that choice.
As far as I know, the only thing you are really missing out on is the Creatine in meat, and you get that even more easily from supplementation. Everything else is stuff you can get from even better sources (better and cheaper proteins from dairy and eggs and protein powders in general, better essential fat sources etc).

On the other hand, there is nothing about training that would make people just suddenly become morally inconsistent (choosing to apply their principles only when it's convenient), you are not suddenly going to kill puppy dogs and trip old ladies in the street just because you train, and similarly you wouldn't start killing/eating/hunting stuff if you didn't want to do it before.

If however you are a vegetarian -not- for ethical reasons and don't even eat eggs or dairy, it's harder to compensate for (still possible, just a lot more work), and I suppose it would be much more likely that you could change your mind (maybe if you thought being vegetarian was somehow healthier and later realized that while training it would be healthier and easier to eat meat, fish, dairy and eggs too).

So anyways, you might want to specify more details than just saying vegetarian, so people can give you more specific advice.
The word vegetarian can mean different things, if I just say I am vegetarian people might assume I like sophisticated vegetable dishes that involve mushrooms (which I hate), when I would be more all about chocolate, watermelon and frozen yogurt :P
That's another thing you might want to be careful about, generally it's easier to gain weight as vegetarian if you are careless, because the most delicious calorie-rich foods are technically vegetarian, so it's not in any way a guarantee to be healthier at all (think of potato chips, every possible candy, fried battered food, etc).

Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: parkeet on December 04, 2008, 01:54:57 AM
Awesome thx for the advice!
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Bret [Soundcrafter] on December 23, 2008, 10:31:31 AM
Two questions for Chris:

-You recommend eating oatmeal daily, but don't give a reason why. Isn't oatmeal a cereal, which would put it in the same category as the 'not-so-good' grains and rices?

-Most of Quinoa's carbs, if not all, come from starch. Isn't starch just a big, long, chain o'sugars?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on December 23, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
I am considering removing both of those actually since their caloric density is very high.  The reason they are on there is because they are low GI and have a good amount of fiber and/or protein to buffer the absorption of low GI carbs while providing a good whole food.

Lets also keep in mind that these foods are not evil -- but to get the most of your diet you need to remove them at first and learn more about your diet and your body before it is safe to comfortably add them back into your diet.

Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Bret [Soundcrafter] on December 23, 2008, 03:34:45 PM
Ha, interesting enough. Shocking to see that both of these have a low GI.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: KC Parsons on December 23, 2008, 03:35:33 PM
Ha, interesting enough. Shocking to see that both of these have a low GI.

Yeah, they're not like most other grains (bread and all that).
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on December 23, 2008, 03:50:58 PM
Ha, interesting enough. Shocking to see that both of these have a low GI.

Yeh but the content of carb is still very high overall -- means its very easy to overeat...thus I am thinking of removing both of them...then writing another article to discuss how to reintroduce these back into the diet carefully.

Many very starchy foods have a low GI...the danger is always the caloric density.  One-half of a potato, for example, can satisfy more than a whole meals carb target -- but who eats half a potato?  We eat our potatoes at least one at a time.  Same goes for 1/4 cup of pasta -- but who eats that little of an amount of pasta?  We always eat at least 1 cup dry if it is the main course in a meal -- thus should just be avoided overall for someone just starting out.

The key is to eliminate them then reintroduce them GRADUALLY as you learn the caloric content of each (and also how they react with your body).
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Bret [Soundcrafter] on December 23, 2008, 05:15:12 PM

Yeh but the content of carb is still very high overall -- means its very easy to overeat...thus I am thinking of removing both of them...then writing another article to discuss how to reintroduce these back into the diet carefully.

Many very starchy foods have a low GI...the danger is always the caloric density.  One-half of a potato, for example, can satisfy more than a whole meals carb target -- but who eats half a potato?  We eat our potatoes at least one at a time.  Same goes for 1/4 cup of pasta -- but who eats that little of an amount of pasta?  We always eat at least 1 cup dry if it is the main course in a meal -- thus should just be avoided overall for someone just starting out.

The key is to eliminate them then reintroduce them GRADUALLY as you learn the caloric content of each (and also how they react with your body).

And now I'm enlightened.  This is why I avoid those kinds of foods in general, particularly potatoes. Thanks for clearing this up, Chris.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: J.Silva on January 25, 2009, 10:55:11 PM
Ok, If Im trying to lose weight would this plan help me, plus with the workouts and such ???
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on January 26, 2009, 05:24:50 AM
This is not a "dieting plan".

This is how to improve the quality of your food.  Just improving the quality of your food will make you see dramatic weight loss if you are untrained and eat like crap.

In short, if you follow this advice, you WILL lose weight - especially if you couple it with exercise.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: KC Parsons on January 26, 2009, 07:27:49 AM
Ha, interesting enough. Shocking to see that both of these have a low GI.

Yeh but the content of carb is still very high overall -- means its very easy to overeat...thus I am thinking of removing both of them...then writing another article to discuss how to reintroduce these back into the diet carefully.

Many very starchy foods have a low GI...the danger is always the caloric density.  One-half of a potato, for example, can satisfy more than a whole meals carb target -- but who eats half a potato?  We eat our potatoes at least one at a time.  Same goes for 1/4 cup of pasta -- but who eats that little of an amount of pasta?  We always eat at least 1 cup dry if it is the main course in a meal -- thus should just be avoided overall for someone just starting out.

The key is to eliminate them then reintroduce them GRADUALLY as you learn the caloric content of each (and also how they react with your body).

Hmm, this helped open my eyes a little. I always ruled out starch because I thought it just had a high GI, but apparently overeating is actually more of an issue (along with GI sometimes).


Also, not only does that half potato or 1/4 cup of pasta contribute mass amounts of carbohydrates in and of themself (and noone usually eats those small of portions),  but then you have to also take into account a whole meal. You might have a plateful of pasta, some corn on the side, juice with it, and an apple afterwards.

So I can see how quickly all of this will add up and lead to overeating.
Could you say this is partially due to starchy foods tending to have less fiber (therefore less filling and prone to overeating)?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Sat Santokh on January 26, 2009, 07:31:48 AM
Chris what about people like me who are ridiculously hardgainers and have metabolisms like i've been doing HIIT for 8 years straight,  I don't feel tired after consuming large amounts of carbs, and i need all the calories i can fit in
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on January 26, 2009, 08:17:10 AM
So I can see how quickly all of this will add up and lead to overeating.
Could you say this is partially due to starchy foods tending to have less fiber (therefore less filling and prone to overeating)?

Yes, that is a safe way to think of it.

These high starch foods typically have a lot less fiber and very little water.  Also, we tend to mix these high carb starchy foods with fats which is a bad combination.  An example of these combinations is french fries, onion rings, bloomin' onions, potato salad, macaroni salad, etc. 

A rise in insulin with a lot of Free Fatty Acids (FFA) in the blood stream will certainly cause these FFAs to be stored immediately to adipose (fat) tissues...so it is best to avoid the starchy foods especially with foods that are high in fat.

Chris what about people like me who are ridiculously hardgainers and have metabolisms like i've been doing HIIT for 8 years straight,  I don't feel tired after consuming large amounts of carbs, and i need all the calories i can fit in

The main thing to do, even with hard gainers, is to improve quality of food.  Changing carb/protein/fat ratios without eating quality foods is just going to lead to frustration.  It leads to being hungry way too much and feeling like crap because you are eating twinkies and donuts to get your calories up.  Not to mention the other things that come along with poor diet choices like poor complexion, a "soft" (not-ripped) look, headaches, drowsiness/dragging, etc.

While increasing quality of food I would first try to up the fat intake of these "hard gainers".  Fat is very calorically dense (and delicious) so a hard gainer would benefit more often than not by increasing fat first.  As I said in the past, reintroduction of higher carb foods is a good thing to keep sanity and get your calories up a bit higher, as well.

I would first bump the fat up before the carbs.  Its just a whole lot better tasting and you can get a ton more calories a lot easier without risking a loss of insulin sensitivity.  As an athlete (and just human being in general) you want to be as insulin sensitive as possible...that way when you do consume carbs the insulin response will help deliver the nutrients to tissues more effectively.  Also, it is really easy to identify good, high quality fats as opposed to good high quality starchy carbs.

Start smearing butter, olive oil, coconut butter, turkey/duck/goose fat, almond oil, avocado/avocado oil, almond oil and red palm oil all over your steaks and veggies and you will get all the calories you could ever need.  Don't forget your fish oil, too...this counts as fat, as well.  For a good list of fats to put all over everything, check out the table at the bottom of this page:
http://www.gofrolic.org/gofrolic/food_blog/Entries/2008/12/28_Cooking_Oil_101.html

Hope i answered your question.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: KC Parsons on January 26, 2009, 05:49:27 PM
Woooo I learned something extra useful. Thanks Chris.

You said that if you hit an insulin spike due to a poor choice in carbohydrates, that fat consumed is more likely to be absorbed as fat?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Patrick Yang on January 26, 2009, 07:48:45 PM
You said that if you hit an insulin spike due to a poor choice in carbohydrates, that fat consumed is more likely to be absorbed as fat?

I'd guess it'd be general anabolic effects of insulin.  Lipids get taken up into adipose tissue and are used in fatty acid synthesis.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Increased fatty acid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on January 26, 2009, 10:04:11 PM
You said that if you hit an insulin spike due to a poor choice in carbohydrates, that fat consumed is more likely to be absorbed as fat?

I'd guess it'd be general anabolic effects of insulin.  Lipids get taken up into adipose tissue and are used in fatty acid synthesis.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Increased fatty acid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Yes, basically it's not of too much consequence.

Lipids are already absorbed as lipids after digestion (both as free fatty acids and in complexes with proteins) and are circulating in your bloodstream. The body has many ways to regulate them, but it certainly has to make sure you don't have excessive amounts of lipids just circulating in your blood since that will cause big problems.

Even if you had just ingested a lot of lipids without any carbs, your fat cells will still help absorb excess lipids in your blood. Insulin just helps shuttle them more efficiently into either adipose cells, muscle or liver, depending on their respective needs and your metabolic state (e.g., if recovering from exercise, insulin will drive both carbs/sugars, proteins/aa and lipids/ffa into muscles, while if underexercised and overeating it will drive them into fat cells), and also regulate other systems to anabolic mode.

Your fat cells themselves continuously absorb or release various amounts of lipids in the blood to maintain appropriate levels, so you shouldn't see the fact that some lipids are absorbed as a final terrible event, rather it's a normal everyday event. 

In normal situations that's exactly the best thing that should happen, any decent size meal will still likely have more lipids than your blood should circulate at one time. A few hours later when other cells in the body have used up some of the remaining lipids circulating in your blood, your adipocytes will release more lipids in your bloodstream to maintain a proper basal level of circulating lipids.

So if your energy balance is in order (e.g. you are not overeating), you don't need to be concerned with not mixing carbs and fats, having the same calories just from fat or just from carbs will actually probably be worse than having them by a mix of both.  If you are consuming excess calories, you will still gain the same amount of bodyfat from just carbs, just fats, or a mix of both, based on total calories.

But the general point is still don't overeat, and don't think of just fat or carbs in a meal, a good sanity check is total calories and things like relative proportions of proteins and fibers to fat and carbs. It's very hard to find unhealthy foods that have twice the protein than either fat or carbs for example, or twice the grams of fibers than sugars. And something with more or less equal amounts of carbs, proteins and fat is still a pretty good balance.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Sat Santokh on January 27, 2009, 12:07:58 AM
Quote
The main thing to do, even with hard gainers, is to improve quality of food.  Changing carb/protein/fat ratios without eating quality foods is just going to lead to frustration.  It leads to being hungry way too much and feeling like crap because you are eating twinkies and donuts to get your calories up.  Not to mention the other things that come along with poor diet choices like poor complexion, a "soft" (not-ripped) look, headaches, drowsiness/dragging, etc.

While increasing quality of food I would first try to up the fat intake of these "hard gainers".  Fat is very calorically dense (and delicious) so a hard gainer would benefit more often than not by increasing fat first.  As I said in the past, reintroduction of higher carb foods is a good thing to keep sanity and get your calories up a bit higher, as well.

I would first bump the fat up before the carbs.  Its just a whole lot better tasting and you can get a ton more calories a lot easier without risking a loss of insulin sensitivity.  As an athlete (and just human being in general) you want to be as insulin sensitive as possible...that way when you do consume carbs the insulin response will help deliver the nutrients to tissues more effectively.  Also, it is really easy to identify good, high quality fats as opposed to good high quality starchy carbs.

Start smearing butter, olive oil, coconut butter, turkey/duck/goose fat, almond oil, avocado/avocado oil, almond oil and red palm oil all over your steaks and veggies and you will get all the calories you could ever need.  Don't forget your fish oil, too...this counts as fat, as well.  For a good list of fats to put all over everything, check out the table at the bottom of this page:
http://www.gofrolic.org/gofrolic/food_blog/Entries/2008/12/28_Cooking_Oil_101.html

Hope i answered your question.

Well i wasn't talking about eating twinkies and stuff haha i just meant stuff like bread, and potatoes, and possibly even carb supplements.  The problem with the increasing fat thing is that i can't control what i eat really right now because i'm on the campus meal plan.  They don't EVOO in the dining halls or most of the other stuff you've mentioned.  They also almost never serve steak.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on January 27, 2009, 04:35:05 PM
Sorry Sat -- I think I over-generalized there :P  If it makes you feel better, you can call me a racist - I will understand.

Campus meal plans make things tricky because they exploit the fact that cheap and unhealthy is delicious and fill the campus eateries with unhealthy delicious junk -- thus the freshman 15 and the feeling of liberation most college students get when they are no longer required to be on a shitty meal plan.

What is available to you, exactly?  Maybe you should make your parents pay for a trip to whole foods and pick up some of those butters/oils to mix up your fat intake...and just spread good fats all over the campus chicken patties and burgers they serve at those meal halls :P
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: MIG~de~PK on February 04, 2009, 06:02:38 PM
What are the benefits of tea, if you don't mind telling me. ;)
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on February 04, 2009, 08:40:58 PM
Green Tea is good for hydration but mostly because of anti-oxidants.

Here is a good little blurb on the benefits on anti-oxidants.

http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/A-Ap/Antioxidants.html
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: NIMI624 on March 07, 2009, 12:34:28 PM
Don't quote the whole original post please!

thanks man that really helped thanks!
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: serb87 on April 05, 2009, 07:55:28 PM
You could also go outside and catch a rabbit without using guns just old school spear. Awesome tasting meat and real parkour.
I just had to add this lol, great post
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: David Ivey on April 06, 2009, 05:09:25 PM
Ah man! I have been living off of oatmeal for like, the past 6 months! I guess I'm going to have to change that.

On a different note, i was wondering if i would be able to modify my diet to resemble this more without spending lots of money. Especially since I'm 16 and don't have a stead income at this very moment.
Lastly, since bread does not seem to be a great choice, what should i eat for lunch that Im able to take to school.

Thanks a bunch,
David
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Bret [Soundcrafter] on April 06, 2009, 07:27:39 PM
Ah man! I have been living off of oatmeal for like, the past 6 months! I guess I'm going to have to change that.

On a different note, i was wondering if i would be able to modify my diet to resemble this more without spending lots of money. Especially since I'm 16 and don't have a stead income at this very moment.
Lastly, since bread does not seem to be a great choice, what should i eat for lunch that Im able to take to school.

Thanks a bunch,
David

Oatmeal's not horrible, you just need to understand what role it can play in your diet. For the record, however, steel-cut oats are better than the Quaker "Instant" or "One-minute" variety.

For lunch, try hard-boiled eggs. Throw 'em in a lunch box with an ice pack. Nuts aren't bad. Leftovers from last night's dinner. If you learn to cook (which you very well should, read Muse's article), you can cook yourself tomorrow's lunch or breakfast.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: David Ivey on April 09, 2009, 11:22:53 AM
Its good that oatmeal isnt going to have to be eliminated. I dont know where i would a good portion of my daily calories. And yeah ill switch to the Original flavored oatmeal and just buy myself some honey and apples for my breakfasts.

And just talking about hardboiled eggs, i think ill have one now! Throw some salt and pepper on and ill be good to go. And i dont have to worry about cooking ability, just my will to cook.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Jon Pritchard on May 31, 2009, 06:02:44 PM
OATMEAL FTW!  I have been eating it every week day for almost 3 years now and I have to say that it is one of the best ways to lower cholesterol and keep your digestive tract in line thanks to all that great roughage :)
Quote
steel-cut oats are better than the Quaker "Instant" or "One-minute" variety
I couldn't agree more  ;D

While most see whole milk as being fattening, in reality it can be very nutritious if it is raw.  Milk is one of the most processed and abused animal source foods available at the grocery store.  The cleanliness at milk factories is mostly to blame for this processing.  If you ever saw the inner workings of a milk factory you would never want to drink store bought milk again.  Not to mention that milk looses most of it protein and enzyme content in pasteurization, as they are denatured.  If there is any possible way to obtain raw milk I would advise at least trying it, you may (like me) find it to taste a lot better than scalded store bought milk.

Another great food is yogurt.  While it is made from store bought milk and can contain a good amount of sugar depending on the brand/flavor, its great redeeming feature are the live cultures it contains.  These cultures, or to put it simply "good" bacteria are perfect for intestinal health as they can supplement the existing bacteria in your intestines that help absorb and break down food.

If I can make one suggestion on what to avoid it would have to be high fructose corn syrup.  It is so bad for you it's not even funny.  What is worse is that it is in so many things that it can be hard to avoid.  The two main culprits I have found in my search to weed it out of my diet are soda pop and non-white bread (along with many other wheat products). Just avoid soda all together, and with no-white bread and wheat look for products that use brown sugar or honey to sweeten, rather than HFCS.

These are just a few of the things I have been doing over the past 3 years, and while I am still a picky eater, I can be smart about what I do eat  ;)
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Bret [Soundcrafter] on June 03, 2009, 09:37:02 AM
If there is any possible way to obtain raw milk I would advise at least trying it, you may (like me) find it to taste a lot better than scalded store bought milk.

...
If I can make one suggestion on what to avoid it would have to be high fructose corn syrup.  It is so bad for you it's not even funny.  What is worse is that it is in so many things that it can be hard to avoid. 

Oh dog, if I  could only obtain raw milk. It's unfortunately illegal for sale in the state of Indiana for human consumption. I'm going to hit up farmer's market's, though...;)

As for the HFCS argument, you're right, but be careful with that statement. Don't scapegoat HFCS, you'll spark a novel's worth of replies. :)

Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: WoodlandGhillie on June 23, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
I can't get enough green tea...

"The first cup moistens my lips and throat; The second cup breaks my loneliness; The third cup searches my barren entrail but to find therein some thousand volumes of odd ideographs; The fourth cup raises a slight perspiration-all the wrongs of life pass out through my pores; At the fifth cup I am purified; The sixth cup calls me to the realms of the immortals. The seventh cup-ah, but I could take no more! I only feel the breath of the cool wind that raises in my sleeves. Where is Elysium? Let me ride on this sweet breeze and waft away thither. "
Lu Tung (Chinese poet during T'ang Dynasty) "Tea-Drinking"
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Zbpreston on June 27, 2009, 12:01:36 AM
how many times a day is recommended for eating meals?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on June 27, 2009, 06:01:01 AM
how many times a day is recommended for eating meals?

Whatever you are comfortable with -- if you are just starting don't worry about meal frequency...just improve the quality of your food as outlined above.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Zbpreston on June 27, 2009, 11:01:17 AM
how many times a day is recommended for eating meals?

Whatever you are comfortable with -- if you are just starting don't worry about meal frequency...just improve the quality of your food as outlined above.

Well, the reason i ask is, i have been on a schedule for a while now, eating every 2-3 hours, consuming 6-7 meals a day. the question i have had for a while now is, "how much to eat". i do eat healthy, but i just don't want to over eat, consuming more calories than i need to.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on June 27, 2009, 01:26:54 PM
Modulating meal frequency depends.  Some people respond very well with smaller, frequent meals whereas more respond better with huge massive infrequent meals.  It really depends on your goals and body type.  A small woman who needs 1200 calories a day while trying to lose weight would never perform well on 6 small 200 calorie meals -- that is just maddening.  A 16 year old hard gainer would have a really hard time fitting 6000 calories into 2 meals a day, though, so he may want to do smaller, more frequent meals., for example.

If your goal is to lose weight i would highly recommend less frequent portion controlled meals.  If you want to gain weight I would suggest trying to eat larger meals more frequently.  If you are just getting started and want to get your diet "on the right track" then you are thinking too far ahead -- focus on improving food quality for at least 1-2 months and then revisit the concept of feeding frequency, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Shae Perkins on August 03, 2009, 11:44:10 AM
Chris, you mentioned taking 2 multi-vitamins a day? That seems a bit excessive... Why is this?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: tombb on August 06, 2009, 12:10:57 PM
Chris, you mentioned taking 2 multi-vitamins a day? That seems a bit excessive... Why is this?
This probably wasn't answered yet because sometimes people don't notice if a stickie was updated :P  So I will answer this for Chris.

It's basically an approximate adjustment based on the fact that vitamin and mineral requirements change a lot based on activity levels.

For example you might have noticed sweat is usually salty, so basically you should know you lose a lot more of several minerals like sodium and potassium that way. Similarly, even vitamins get used more. B vitamins are involved in metabolism so if you burn more calories by training you need more of those, and similarly for vitamins that have antioxidant activity.

So twice as much is an approximation of course, but still a fairly safe one. The RDA and dosages of a normal pill are based on levels that wouldn't be too much for even very skinny sedentary grandmas for example, and it would take you months of taking many times the max levels before you ever see any problem from excessive vitamins or minerals from those doses.

In addition it's generally good to not take them at the same time but spread them out (like one in the morning and one at night), because most are not time-released and you are better off with a more steady supply.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on August 06, 2009, 01:02:43 PM
Yup, thats pretty much it.  Thanks for handling that for me.

That said, I can elaborate on this just a touch more in some simpler terms:

So twice as much is an approximation of course, but still a fairly safe one. The RDA and dosages of a normal pill are based on levels that wouldn't be too much for even very skinny sedentary grandmas for example, and it would take you months of taking many times the max levels before you ever see any problem from excessive vitamins or minerals from those doses.


The body is very very good at managing vitamins and minerals, in general.  Having too much is nearly impossible unless you are really consuming gross quantities for a long period of time.  The only reported Vitamin A overdoses, for example, are from people who lived off of Polar Bear Liver (which is like 9000% of the RDA per serving) for several months.  The amount necessary to overdose does vary for each micronutrient (vitamin/mineral) but, generally speaking, these values are REALLY high most times.

With that in mind, if you consume too much its not a problem at all - but consuming too little can lead to a variety of small problems ranging from sub-optimal results all the way down to piss-poor mood.  It pays to get more as opposed to less.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Shae Perkins on August 06, 2009, 08:49:12 PM
Ok, thank you very much guys:) You learned me something :D
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Dudley on August 24, 2009, 02:30:30 PM
Chris,

Is there any reason you have not mentioned black beans?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on August 24, 2009, 04:39:53 PM
Dudley,

Beans are listed as a category...black beans fall into that category along with several other legumes including chickpeas, kidney beans, navy beans, etc.

Maybe I misunderstood something?

Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Sparklefish on August 24, 2009, 04:56:55 PM
Is there any reason you have not mentioned black beans?

Dudley!

I wondered the same thing as I didn't see 'em in the OP when I read it.  As much as Chris says it's not just a list of healthy foods, I think people will assume some things are un-healthy if they're not listed.  Personally I'll eat my damn black beans forever unless they're proven to be equivalent to chomping on asbestos!
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on August 24, 2009, 05:31:58 PM
If something is unclear then please let me know so that I can fix this article. :)
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Sparklefish on August 24, 2009, 08:46:39 PM
I think it's fairly clear.  There are two minor suggestions I might make. 

PREFACE NOTES
  • This article was written as a more formal article in response to the thread titled not getting my diet (http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php?topic=11629.0)
  • THIS ARTICLE IS NOT A LIST OF HEALTHY FOODS.  The list is just a SAMPLE Menu - your menu may not have any of these items at all!  It is about personal preference and lifestyle.

You might want to repeat that exact quote several times in this article.  Repetition may seem boring and even insulting to some readers or audiences, but I'm sure you know the value of simple, frequently repeated cues.

For clarity, an example of a good starting menu is shown below:

Right here, just before the sample menu would be a good time to reiterate that there are many healthy foods not listed here that are worth eating.

When you make your own menu, I suggest that you carry it around with you everywhere you go.  The goal is to constantly expand the menu as you learn new food items that you enjoy that fit into these categories.

This is another principle that's worth repeating: constantly expanding one's menu of healthy choices.

Other than that, I feel it's well-written and a perfect way to introduce beginners to healthy eating.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: FastGuppy on September 01, 2009, 06:48:32 PM
are red beans good for you?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Fecteau on April 19, 2010, 10:05:24 AM
And here I am reading this thread with a McDonalds large coke in my hand... :(
But: How do you measure 2 cups of solid food such as carrots and such when it's not a powder...?
Also: What about those regular bush beans you get at shaws that you eat along with hot dogs? Those healthy at all?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Grayson on April 19, 2010, 04:00:44 PM
Quote
But: How do you measure 2 cups of solid food such as carrots and such when it's not a powder...?
Measuring cup of carrots.

Quote
Also: What about those regular bush beans you get at shaws that you eat along with hot dogs? Those healthy at all?
No.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Thenamelessone on August 03, 2010, 07:41:55 AM
ok right now my diet consists of:

breakfast: 1 package of pop tarts (2 pop tarts total)
               a glass of water or juice


Snack at work: gummy fruit snacks (no fat version) or carrots (getting burned out on the carrots right now.)
   

lunch: either steamed white rice plain or some kind of pasta with a little bit of bbq sauce or ranch for flavoring

Snack at work: Frozen berries (about 1/2 cup worth, and usually thawed by this time. blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, and blackberries.)


Dinner: Depends on what my wife wants usually. chicken breast sauteed in soy sauce and teriyaki sauce with rice, homemade pizza, some form of pasta with either alfredo sauce and hamburger (lean) or her sauce (tomato sauce and cream of mushroom soup) and chicken, tacos or burritos, or once every 2 weeks pizza rolls.

and of course water all day at work, and then when i get home either unsweetened or sweetened tea, depending on my mood.

Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Thenamelessone on August 03, 2010, 07:45:53 AM
Dudley!

I wondered the same thing as I didn't see 'em in the OP when I read it.  As much as Chris says it's not just a list of healthy foods, I think people will assume some things are un-healthy if they're not listed.  Personally I'll eat my damn black beans forever unless they're proven to be equivalent to chomping on asbestos!

word!!!!   try this if you like these: steamed with rice, hamburger with taco seasoning and black beans. oh so good. had for lunch yesterday at work and breakfast today lol.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Faithkeeper on October 13, 2010, 08:12:27 AM
When it says green tea, does this include bottled green tea or green tea in the half-gallon containers, or merely brewed green tea?
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Patrick Witbrod on October 14, 2010, 04:32:53 AM
When it says green tea, does this include bottled green tea or green tea in the half-gallon containers, or merely brewed green tea?

         I'm just guessing but I would think brewed green tea. The closer it is to tea leaves the healthier it is for you. I can taste the paper in some brewed tea if it's to weak. Bottled tea adds lots of extra preservatives that aren't needed those paired with the sugar make it about as healthy as a coke. Maybe a little bit more because it does have SOME antioxidants but not as many as brewed tea. Some bottled brands are a LITTLE better then others. Look at the ingredients list the less the better. Also look at sugar content again the less the better.

         With tea the closer it is to the actual plant the more health benefits you get from it.   

Edit:thought I would make things a little more clear.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Chris Salvato on October 14, 2010, 12:59:59 PM
         I'm just guessing but I would think brewed green tea. The closer it is to tea leaves the healthier it is for you. I can taste the paper in some brewed tea if it's to weak. Bottled tea adds lots of extra preservatives that aren't needed those paired with the sugar make it about as healthy as a coke. Maybe a little bit more because it does have SOME antioxidants but not as many as brewed tea. Some bottled brands are a little better then others. Look at the ingredients list the less the better. Also sugar content again the less the better.

         With tea the closer it is to the actual plant the more health benefits you get from it.   

Yeah...leaves in water...anything that is too far from that (such as pre-bottled sweetened tea) is actually defeating the purpose...
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Rocket Man38 on October 14, 2010, 01:07:29 PM
and now i have my diet  ;D and i am happy
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Jesus on December 11, 2011, 10:46:12 AM
So are Multivitamins supplements recommend ?My mom says I don't need any but with Parkour, training and daily life my body takes a beating. ???
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Steve Low on December 11, 2011, 12:07:32 PM
So are Multivitamins supplements recommend ?My mom says I don't need any but with Parkour, training and daily life my body takes a beating. ???

If you're eating good foods then no they are not.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Jesus on December 11, 2011, 01:16:09 PM
If you're eating good foods then no they are not.

Okay I think i get if you eat right then everything is balanced and you get enough vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and stuff.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: Steve Low on December 11, 2011, 04:43:16 PM
Okay I think i get if you eat right then everything is balanced and you get enough vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and stuff.

Correct.

There's even epidemiological studies that show supplementing stuff like vitamin C actually slightly increases mortality.

Eat real foods. Only thing you might want to supplement is vitamin D if you don't get outside much in the sun and during winter if you don't live in the tropics, and fish oil if you don't have access to grass fed meats.
Title: Re: Eating Right: How To Get Started
Post by: source on March 11, 2013, 10:58:54 PM
Great! I have bananas!