Author Topic: Parkour in the olympics?!  (Read 8404 times)

Offline Ozzi

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Parkour in the olympics?!
« on: May 05, 2008, 07:03:45 PM »
Your thought.

My thought personally, I am against the competition. But if done right it could give the right message to all masses.

I am going somewhere with this topic, I just want to see some thoughts and then I'll throw the bomb.



edit: title.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 07:10:50 PM by LeoNn »
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Offline Charlie" Frontflip" Chase

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2008, 07:24:50 PM »
I don't really want to see parkour in any form of competition. So i am against the idea.
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Offline Kyle Rudolph

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2008, 07:32:19 PM »
I don't really want to see parkour in any form of competition. So i am against the idea.

Ditto.
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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2008, 07:43:23 PM »
It wouldn't really be feasible, I don't think.

However, David Belle's been working to do a performance spot in the Olympics.  Not makign it an Olympic sport, but just a little performance thing.
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Offline Ozzi

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2008, 08:07:40 PM »
I heard from TK17 that Belle wants PK in the Olympics.
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Offline Paul Leon Mederos

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2008, 08:11:59 PM »
The Olympic Games are the ultimate competition between the highest tier of individuals who have trained in their respective sport. There are many reasons people enter the Olympics. Yes, its true, these people are the pinnacle of their respective athletic skillsets because they have trained and dedicated an absurd amount of time to improving their body. If they win they have proved that they are the best in the world in their respective athletic skillset.

But what matters is WHY the athlete put in so much of their mind, body, and spirit (or maybe just body...) to win this competition. It boils down to 1 of  2 points, they want to prove to everyone else that they are the best or they want to prove to themselves that they are the best they can be. Most athletes no doubt want the title of being best in the world. That is their dream and ambition - it is the reason why they push themselves everyday for hours and hours. It's a little sad in my opinion but hey, it's what makes them happy! Everyone's different. Then there's that second person who wants the Gold to show himself that he is the best he can be.

In my opinion, getting a medal to prove you are the best is materialistic at best. If you know you've trained hard and you're at the top, you know it. You don't need to go around shoving it in everyone's face. Lets strike this up as a negative for having parkour in the Olympics.

But there are more reasons for competing with top notch people around your level. You are doing what you love with people that love it just as much as you do. It's a great feeling to know that all the days you've trained and pushed yourself, someone else has done it too because they love the sport. So lets strike up a positive for having parkour in the Olympics.

Now lets think about how the competition would be run, as this is one of the most important aspects of the competition. It would be foolish to have one obstacle course and unleash 6 traceurs to race against each other to the finish line like you would do for the sprint races or swimming, etc etc. There is more to be judged in one's movement then how fast they can get to a point. If you recall some of the threads we've had here about what makes a great traceur, you'll remember reading a long laundry list of traits and skills a great traceur possesses. In a competitive setting, you cannot judge someone's personality so lets throw out all the traits. We're left with skillsets - speed, endurance, creativity, flow, efficiency, safety, etc. But by throwing out the traits, we are no longer looking at the whole picture of a traceur... but then again traits are subjective and I'm sure everyone here would agree Belle is a great traceur yet he doesn't possess a majority of the traits listed. I'll leave the traits point as neutral. Back to the physical skills involved....
      A big problem is how can we judge these skillsets? You cannot simply give someone a rating of 1-10 on how their 'flow' was, or how 'efficient' they were. I can't think right now about how we would judge these things except for having each traceur be judged by the other traceurs because of anyone else in the world we would be the best to know how well someone moved, if they were safely within their limits, how creative the run was, etc etc. I'll mark this as a negative for Olympics in parkour because it's not a very formal way of judging and a lot of thought needs to be put into this.

Back to the run itself, instead of having a bunch of traceurs run to a point, I think it best if there would be the traceur vs an obstacle/time - kind of the way various game shows like Ninja Warrior pit the competitor against himself. Even though each individual score is tossed on a board and ranked amongst the other competitors, this would show the traceur competing with himself and the ranking be used as a formal token of who the 'winner' (remember, we marked this as a negative earlier) would be. So traceur vs obstacle/time can be dotted down as a positive.

I've noticed that this is getting deeply involved as a competition vs non-competition argument for parkour but it's really the only way it could have gone.

If you kept track, the positives balanced the negatives so overall having parkour in the Olympics would be neutral. There's only one thing that sways this balance and it's the attitude of the traceurs. If the traceur is the type of "I want to prove im the best to the world", then the competition is superficial and does not follow the spirit of parkour. If the traceur goes with an open mind, yearning for a chance to grow himself and train with others who share his passion regardless of what position he claims, then having parkour in the Olympics would be a great gift to all traceurs because it can show them how great a traceur can become!!!

And for the record, I do believe if done right competition can have a long, positive effect on the discipline. Of course, if done right it wouldn't be considered a sporting competition by the ones competing in it, it would be thought of as a learning experience   :)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 08:15:38 PM by LeoNn »
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Offline Patrick "PyroPat" Caric

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Re: Parkour in the olimpics?!
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2008, 08:45:11 PM »
intresting... very intresting.

Well it would be very difficult. First the judging.  It's not as cut and dry as the 100m.  but i guess it could work something like gymnastics and figure skating.  how well one sticks a move or percision.

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2008, 08:56:34 PM »
In my opinion, getting a medal to prove you are the best is materialistic at best. If you know you've trained hard and you're at the top, you know it. You don't need to go around shoving it in everyone's face. Lets strike this up as a negative for having parkour in the Olympics.
Uh... I don't think shoving it in peoples' faces is quite the mindset or at least I wouldn't imagine it to be. Some people just have the desire to be great and set records. They then indirectly challenge others to work their butts off to try and beat them. The medal seems like it would be more symbolic. If you really wanted one you could just buy it somewhere instead of working for countless hours.

I think it's pretty easy to judge how good a traceur is. It would be done just like any subjective assessment is. We have been doing a similar for many many years now in ice-skating, diving, and skateboarding. Now, you can be all P.C. and say, "Oh, everyone is a winner!" but there is no doubt that some "feel the flow" better than others.

I think your idea about going over a certain obstacle/s and timed makes sense.

At my gym, we already make up obstacle courses and time each other to see who can complete them the fastest. You exceed in some and don't do as well  in others, but in the end, it's hella fun.
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Offline Patrick "PyroPat" Caric

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2008, 09:02:45 PM »
 
[/quote]


I think your idea about going over a certain obstacle/s and timed makes sense.

At my gym, we already make up obstacle courses and time each other to see who can complete them the fastest. You exceed in some and don't do as well  in others, but in the end, it's hella fun.
[/quote]

i think they already have this... its called Ninja warrior.   j/k. but i agree with some people have the  "flow" better than other and should really be taken into consideration.

Offline bigninjapimp

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2008, 09:41:15 PM »
They should add an obstacle based race. In my opinion locomotive movement is the purest form of athletics. No game, no tools, just your body.
It should incorporate running, jumping, climbing, swimming, crawling, vaulting, balance, ect.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 01:08:05 PM by BNP »

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 04:08:22 AM »
Big surprise - I am FOR competitions :)

I think that the quality of the competition comes down to the quality and attitude of the competitors, and if everyone there is there for the advancement of themselves, each other, and their activity that the experience is overall very positive.

I think the competition itself needs to be very carefully crafted so that good performance in a range of categories that we feel are important as Traceurs is what is demonstrated and "rewarded" by the competition. (in other words, if biggest backflip wins, the competition itself is not successful)
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Offline Chris Lyons

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 04:41:25 AM »
eh, less competition more performance... but if it WERE to be a competition, Id say they have to make a obstical course of death filled to the brim with flesh-eating animals. The team to make it through with the least ammount of injuries/ deaths wins!! :-Sarcasm
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Offline JumpOff

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 05:18:08 AM »
zomgg....beating a dead horse with a sledge hammer.
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Offline Matt Carter

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 05:24:54 AM »
I don have enough info to put a legit. answer... please, continue.

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2008, 05:31:07 AM »
aww c'mon jumpoff!! there's a few maggots left in the mane - let's kick start this bitch :)
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Offline Zachary Cohn

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2008, 06:21:03 AM »
To respond slightly more clearly to Ozzi's "bomb" -

David Belle has said he would like to see Parkour in the Olympics as a demonstration, not as an event.

Offline Paul Leon Mederos

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2008, 06:42:18 AM »
In my opinion, getting a medal to prove you are the best is materialistic at best. If you know you've trained hard and you're at the top, you know it. You don't need to go around shoving it in everyone's face. Lets strike this up as a negative for having parkour in the Olympics.
Uh... I don't think shoving it in peoples' faces is quite the mindset or at least I wouldn't imagine it to be. Some people just have the desire to be great and set records. They then indirectly challenge others to work their butts off to try and beat them. The medal seems like it would be more symbolic. If you really wanted one you could just buy it somewhere instead of working for countless hours.

Indeed good sir!! That is exactly the point I was trying to make. As long as the competitors attitude is a good one, the competition will turn out fine.
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Offline BobT

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2008, 06:53:26 AM »
     A big problem is how can we judge these skillsets? You cannot simply give someone a rating of 1-10 on how their 'flow' was, or how 'efficient' they were.

But this is exactly what is done for any of the stylistic sports in the olympics (figure skating, freestyle skiing, etc.).  There is a technical score for the precision of movements and there is a style score for creativity, coreography...

Using the aforementioned sports as a template, you could come up with some rules that would encompass the sport and have enough parallels to existing competitions to make it understandable by the IOC, the media and the spectators.  First, set a course with two lanes.  The course would have elements that would require the traceur(euse) to make certain mandatory moves and other elements that would allow for some flexibilty.

The competition would be a two up race for time (time = efficiency for competition purposes).  There would be a technical score encompassing all movements done on the course and a style score for flow, etc.  These scores would be tallied the same way they are in mogul skiing.  High scores (not necessarily the lowest time) for the round advance.

The judging panel would obviously need to be experienced traceurs (which is in line with any other sport that has an artistic element - and one of the reasons sports take such a long time to be adopted into the olympics).

There we have it - piece of cake ;D  Alright M2, get this setup for this year's national jam ;D ;D ;D

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2008, 07:51:38 AM »
Quote
David Belle has said he would like to see Parkour in the Olympics as a demonstration, not as an event.

I'd like to see it as an exhibition at the Superbowl halftime show - but I'm not sure either David or I has the connections to make this happen :)
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Offline Matthew Lee Willis

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Re: Parkour in the olympics?!
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2008, 08:23:48 AM »
Here is something I wrote a little under 3 years ago...I think it still has a lot of relevance.


The Regulation of Parkour

New and extreme sports are exploding in our culture as of late.  These treads are reinforced by media with high action cameras and film techniques that put the viewer in the seat to watch and enjoy.  Although, many viewers do not know that there are debates over the elements that they love so much.  There is a new and upcoming discipline by the name of Parkour.  Parkour may be hard to explain because of its wide elements in many other sports, movies and even video games.  It is something most people have actually done without even knowing

“Le Parkour (also called Parkour, PK, or Free Running) is a physical discipline of French origin, in which participants attempt to pass obstacles in a smooth and rapid manner.
Parkour is said to be L'art du Deplacement, or the Art of Displacement, consisting of uninterrupted forward motion over, under, around and through obstacles (both man-made and natural) in one's environment. Such movement may come in the form of running, jumping, climbing and other more complicated techniques. The goal of the practice of Parkour is to be able to adapt one's movement to any given situation so that any obstacle can be overcome with the human body's abilities.” (wikipedia.com)

“the differences in the viewing of Parkour's meaning, the wide variety of motions found in the sport (motions being an attempt to describe different 'moves' - climbing, vaulting, jumps, catleaps, drops, rolling...) means that different traceurs style themselves according to what comes most naturally and appeals to that person's taste.  (screwgravity.com)

A Traceur is man or women practicing in the discipline of Parkour and Traceurs would explain Parkour differently among different nations.  Others would explain this as Jackie Chan or Tony Ja’s movements of escape in movies.  So as long as you take away the martial arts you will have “Parkour.”  Of coarse there is an organization behind it all including many moves from gymnastic and military obstacle course training.  I will be using the term Discipline and Philosophy, you may choose to interchange them or even think of the word sport instead.
All over the world there is a debate over the regulation of Parkour.  The regulation of Parkour pounds in the hearts of all Traceurs.  There have been regulations on Parkour already in this new sport.  The most recent regulation of Parkour is the split of two different types of Parkour.  Traditional Parkour, having an emphasized on speed and efficiency which often turns into fluidity and Free Running is its other half.  It concentrates on all the same elements but also contains acro elements that may necessarily not get you anywhere fast but may be handled in fluidity. Along with this you may return where you started as long as it is flowing.  There were many people that did not like this regulation and will continue to fight any regulations put upon their philosophy of Parkour.
The newest argument to the regulation of Parkour consists of doing what skateboarding and gymnastics has done and create competitions.  This has created quite uproar between the two different styles of Parkour.  Traditional Parkour enthusiasts lean more to the fact that Parkour will never be able to be defined by something so base and regimented.  While Free Runner enthusiasts feel that it is an opportunity that we can not pass up.  One of the problems is that people are not able to agree upon a plan of action that may carry this idea into fruition. 
I have devised a plan that may solve some problems although, I will argue both sides of the spectrum so that you the reader in the end may conclude weather or not you feel as though this should take place.  There are three levels at which you must build this position on.  First and for most you are required to have an organization oversee these actions and regulations.  Second you must compile all relevant actions a person may be judged by and third, a format in which to judge those actions.
First before anything may be accomplished in this argument you must obtain an overseeing party that may enforce any regulations upon anyone.  Parkour lacks a true board or organization that strictly works on the advancement of Parkour.  The sport is young and there are not too many people in place at this time that have drive and will to go through with this.  The organization would be modeled after the USAG, Unites States of American Gymnastics.  They have offices all over the world with many people looking after advancing the sport of gymnastics.  Weather it be equipment, regulations or competitions.  This is the governing body that may fund or take funding away from gymnastics gyms all over the United States.  This Parkour organization we will call WWPO for the World Wide Parkour Organization, would truly revolutionize media, people and the way people perform extreme sports.  This governing Parkour would proceed over all sponsored events involving Parkour and its regulations.  In competitions there would be trained WWPO judges that would preside as officials over competitions and events.  Although, some people would argue that this is creating too much and that if we have an organization regulating our competitions then they would be regulation our practices or the equipment we must use.  This organization will be able to create a figure heads that people may come to for concerns and true questions between police forces and concerned citizens. 
The compiling of all recognized actions by the community of Parkour would be very extraneous.  The first main problem is the agreed upon consensus of what universally is a Parkour movement.  On UrbanFreeFlow.com, the world’s largest Parkour community there is many basic moves outlined at to what the organization of Parkour consists of.  Although, defining a movement to be truly Parkour or not is hard for most people to except.  Going back to the difference between Free Running and Traditional Parkour, there will be a fight between these sects like two religious groups fighting over the Holy Grail.  In its most practical form this is a possible action.  By choosing movements from nationally recognized groups from all around the world you are able to accomplish the task.  I liken it unto gymnastics with almost no true compilation of every gymnastic type elements written down.  USAG releases a book called the Code of Points which outlines all moves possible that may be judge able.  This in nature also limits the movements of a gymnast; choosing to do certain moves for higher point requirements.  Choosing to force a movement rather then letting a movement come to you in training has been regarded by many communities bad training methods and not truly using your body overcome obstacles most efficiently
The proposal is for Traceurs or the WWPO to try to figure out a scoring system.  Skateboarding, a nationally acclaimed sport has set in motion a series of different competition elements.  We would adopt a foe system from them.  Here are the ways that you may regulate the system of scoring. Upon these regulations you would be deducted from or added to a starting value. This would require pre-meditated runs so that WWPO officials would know at what difficulty you are starting from. In Gymnastics the highest start value you can start at is a 10.00 then you are judged and deducted from that starting point.  The starting value of recognized Parkour events would be 100, which is the top score that you can receive, although, it will be impossible for those who flow on a more improv style.  This also breaks down barriers.  People will argue that when you have something premeditated you will be killing the philosophy of the mind.  You would be putting something in the way of them and their inner self.  Three judges, WWPO officials upon a panel, would apply this scoring during runs, timed cycles in which you are judged and then scored.  They would be evaluation you upon three things.  Difficulty level, execution of moves and of coarse in anything in which you are giving all your heart and soul in to entertain you and the people around you a style category.
Difficulty level would emerge from the compilation of Parkour movements stated above. After rating these moves you would then figure out the difficulty of combining these moves together in sequences to create harder combinations.  After this is done then you would look at the execution of the move. The way you land, hand placement, where you take off from and where you end up. Some would say form.  Many disagree with a certain form when training because many choose what is natural versus picturesque.  More elements in which you would take deduction off of the starting value would be where your chest placement is when you land, how you land, hesitation on a skill, time in which you do the skill, how much prep for the skill; fluidity.  That is when you would have to pick style from bad form, which leads me into the last regulation, style. This would include virtuosity. How far your vaults are, how high they are. Along with leg or arm positions that are stylized; more style, more points in the category. Here is a daisy of an argument that most sports are dealing with right now.  It is a category so important although, it is hated because people styles are different and they like it to be this way.  Arguments that will be received are going too based on limitations.  By telling those where to place their hand and their foot or chest you are not going along with this personal philosophy of whatever flows.  There are some cases in which people must bend their legs to clear an obstacle.  Will there be one correct way to do a movement?
You may loose street value to this discipline which people feel important, if it is being held in organized gatherings.  Skateboarding was never recommended to be regulated in the beginning and some still think that competitions are fowling what skateboarding truly consists within.  Parkour started on the roof tops of buildings where little kids played super hero and it evolved to personal training and philosophy of your body with motion and discipline. So by subjecting it to those who think they know what they are doing might be wrong. Counter point, what you need is a structure, much like a program that any martial arts or Gymnastics.  We may get the young ones in trying this Discipline and that is fine but then we have the dedicated gym rats, mat rats that live by the philosophy.  The ones dedicating a part of their life to the Discipline get something out of Parkour that those young ones or inexperienced never may receive.  Another argument upon Parkour is its economy.  All this competition business might prove good business.  This may create money hungry people who just want to receive money and not care about the true advancement of Parkour.  People don’t like the fact that people are making money off a discipline or philosophy.  Parkour, if compitionalized, will become a sport.  It will be a term used by many and the possibility of it being described as an art, discipline or philosophy will only be days of the past.
The regulation of Parkour and a competition style involvement in the discipline will be argued until this takes place.  The argument brings up several aspects such as the nature of the ability of doing Parkour outside of an emergency setting.  Also, as a side note the creators have come to agree that Parkour is a sport.  Whether the definition is different in America or not most Traceurs in the United States consider it a philosophy and a discipline.  I am for the advancement; you may take that the way you want to take that.  I truly believe from the evidence that I have put forth in this article, is it not possible until this happens.  A problem is if any of these regulations do come into place we will definitely have problems that will cause continual arguing among communities and Parkour enthusiasts.  The second being sometimes people are just happier when you leave things to the imagination.  This is up to you the reader to decide.
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