Author Topic: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma  (Read 53191 times)

Offline Elet ET

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: +32/-19
  • Smite me, Oh Mighty Smiter!!!
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2008, 04:59:34 AM »
While we are on the topic of grainy-ish things, I was wondering about the quality of those Nature Valley Oats & Honey granola bars. I attached the nutrition label to this post. I usually have one after a workout (since I didn't know this about bread, it makes me think other things aren't as good as I thought...)

Make your own granola its easy. And make sure you sweeten it with honey, then go buy some organic non-sweetened plain yogurt, put em togethher. Its as natural and healthy as eating a hippie.(might be a bad analogy)
ProParkour--ANTI-ADVERB!!!!!

If you don't like their rules, Refuse to play their game.
Anarchy is not CHAOS, but order without CONTROL.
Frederick, MD PK

Offline Charles Moreland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +225/-24
    • View Profile
    • www.charlesmoreland.com
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2008, 06:05:32 AM »

Since all this bad and artificial/processed stuff cannot be digested, the bad ingredients stay in your body. This can be linked to increased drowsiness the next day and increased feelings of fatigue. By avoiding these completely, you should find yourself feeling more energized and more refreshed.

Actually the processed stuff is LESS complex which is why you get no thermic effect from processed goods. Everything gets absorbed FASTER which is why you are usually hungry sooner than if you ate more natural and complex goods.

Offline Elet ET

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: +32/-19
  • Smite me, Oh Mighty Smiter!!!
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2008, 06:45:53 AM »
A good tip for shopping for non-processed goods,
Shop around the outer part of the store, in most places this is where you have the REAL foods, Produce, Nuts/Beans, Meats, Dairy, and Bakery.  Once you start walking down the aisles you start getting into processed foods.
Also if its in a package its been processed, and the more packaging the higher chance its more processed.
ProParkour--ANTI-ADVERB!!!!!

If you don't like their rules, Refuse to play their game.
Anarchy is not CHAOS, but order without CONTROL.
Frederick, MD PK

Offline Rickoise

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2008, 10:45:57 AM »
EDIT: Like in ^that post, yes Ammonia in your blood does sound bad, but I don't really know why. What will it result in?

ammonia in your blood will make you need to pee

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2008, 10:56:04 AM »
EDIT: Like in ^that post, yes Ammonia in your blood does sound bad, but I don't really know why. What will it result in?

ammonia in your blood will make you need to pee

Uhm, kind of..?

Ammonia is a nitrogenous waste -- and these are excreted in the urine.  The blood is filtered by the kidneys.  It is in the kidney's filters, called nephrons, where ammonia is filtered out and therefore will not make u pee more, but make your pee darker......but if it was just excreted through the urine then this is not a problem.....long termed exposure to high concentrations of ammonia in the blood can cause several problems.

Here is an exerpt about ammonia from www.labtestsonline.org:

"A waste product, ammonia is normally transported to the liver, where it is converted into urea and glutamine. The urea is then carried by the blood to the kidneys, where it is excreted in the urine. If this “urea cycle” does not complete, ammonia builds up in the blood and passes through the blood/brain barrier.
In the brain, ammonia and other compounds metabolized by the liver can cause hepatic encephalopathy – mental and neurological changes that can lead to confusion, disorientation, sleepiness, and eventually to coma and even death. Infants and children with increased ammonia levels may vomit frequently, be irritable, and be increasingly lethargic. Left untreated, they may experience seizures, respiratory difficulty, and may lapse into a coma.

Problems with ammonia processing can arise from several sources, including:

Rare inherited defects in the urea cycle – a deficiency or defect in one or more of the enzymes necessary to complete the conversion of ammonia to urea.

Severe liver disease – damage limits the ability of the liver to metabolize ammonia. Acute increases in ammonia may be seen in patients with stable liver disease, especially following a triggering event such as gastrointestinal bleeding or an electrolyte imbalance.

Decreased blood flow to liver – ammonia is less able to get to the liver.

Reye’s syndrome – an acute condition that affects the blood, brain, and liver. It is characterized by a rise in ammonia levels and a fall in glucose and affects children and young adults. In most cases, it follows and appears to be triggered by a viral infection. Children who use aspirin are at an increased risk.

Renal failure – the kidneys are unable to effectively rid the body of urea, leading to a build-up of ammonia in the blood."

Offline Steve Low

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 5588
  • Karma: +287/-56
    • View Profile
    • Eat, Move, Improve
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2008, 03:03:15 PM »
Okay seriously.

If you don't know what you're talking about just sit back, listen and learn. If you have questions, ask them.

Randomly saying things without proof (ammonia in the blood making you pee, taking the egg yolks out, processed food more complex, etc.) is really getting fairly prevalent here, and that's how a lot of disinformation is being spread. Back up what any statements you make with physiology.

Thanks.
Posts NOT medical, training or nutrition advice
Site // Overcoming Gravity Book

Offline KC Parsons

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +82/-13
    • View Profile
    • Eat. Move. Improve.
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2008, 03:53:55 PM »
Steve has a point. Like phreak, I've learned a lot by absorbing information from the well-qualified people here.

I have a question/example.
I had just a medium plateful of baked potato,scrambled eggs, and cheddar cheese sprinkled somewhat generously on top.
I just got back from a decently intense parkour session.
What types of health benefits and detriments are there, and from what?
Thanks, this can give us an idea =]

Offline Elet ET

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: +32/-19
  • Smite me, Oh Mighty Smiter!!!
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2008, 04:13:23 PM »
Steve has a point. Like phreak, I've learned a lot by absorbing information from the well-qualified people here.

I have a question/example.
I had just a medium plateful of baked potato,scrambled eggs, and cheddar cheese sprinkled somewhat generously on top.
I just got back from a decently intense parkour session.
What types of health benefits and detriments are there, and from what?
Thanks, this can give us an idea =]

To my wee extent of nutritional knowlege i can say protein in the eggs is good after a workout, it helps re-build muscle tissue. On the other hand Dairy isnt the greatest thing to eat after working out cus some people might get an upset stomach(bear in mind only some people), but a little bit of chesse probably wont do it.

But i just read an article posted in another topic on here, "the paleolithic diet," in which the author claims potatos are terrible for you, due to toxins and assorted other evils that are in them.

With a meal like that though i would personally throw in some ruffage just to help out the good ol' digestive tract.
ProParkour--ANTI-ADVERB!!!!!

If you don't like their rules, Refuse to play their game.
Anarchy is not CHAOS, but order without CONTROL.
Frederick, MD PK

Offline Ken PKChiro

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +103/-13
    • View Profile
    • Vital Balance Chiropractic, LLC
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2008, 06:21:12 PM »
This all said...  Roll up your meat and cheese in lettuce or something.

If you are going to do this, then make sure u get another source of carb like a veggie or fruit.

Lettuce has 15 calories per 2 cups -- thats 4 grams of net carbs in 2 cups....thats nothing.  Make sure you get your carb from somewhere -- and a good source.

and thanks a bunch Cheetaur, compliments are always appreciated :P  When are you going to come back to colorado so that u can fix me, i hear legends and myths haha..

NP.  You def know your stuff, and don't seem to want to stop learning, that's great to see.  I'm excited to see where you end up in life.  As for colorado, no idea,  I'm sure I'll end up visiting at some point, but I don't know where I'm gonna be a few years from now so, we'll see.
Any information or advice given is not to be interpreted as diagnosis, or statements of causality, conditions should be evaluated by a licensed practitioner of Chiropractic or Medical Doctor IN PERSON.  Therefore treatment recommendation should be considered similarly and bears no consequence to me.

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2008, 10:20:41 PM »
Steve has a point. Like phreak, I've learned a lot by absorbing information from the well-qualified people here.

I have a question/example.
I had just a medium plateful of baked potato,scrambled eggs, and cheddar cheese sprinkled somewhat generously on top.
I just got back from a decently intense parkour session.
What types of health benefits and detriments are there, and from what?
Thanks, this can give us an idea =]

To my wee extent of nutritional knowlege i can say protein in the eggs is good after a workout, it helps re-build muscle tissue. On the other hand Dairy isnt the greatest thing to eat after working out cus some people might get an upset stomach(bear in mind only some people), but a little bit of chesse probably wont do it.

But i just read an article posted in another topic on here, "the paleolithic diet," in which the author claims potatos are terrible for you, due to toxins and assorted other evils that are in them.

With a meal like that though i would personally throw in some ruffage just to help out the good ol' digestive tract.

I am going to double stress the point that you should experiment with milk on your OWN BODY and then determine whether or not it makes you sick or uncomfortable.  Personally, I am OK with milk.  Someone I work with won't touch milk because it gives him the runs.  It boils down to your personal needs, like everything else with dieting.

Potatoes are high in starches.  Starches are like little sugar bombs.  Once they hit your digestive tract (in fact, once they hit your TONGUE) all of the sugars in the starches begin to break down. 

Imagine a starch as a really complicated knot thats 3 inches in diameter of really fine thread and is tied very well and tight.  As your body unties this knot of finely wound sugars, the sugars break apart into smaller, simpler sugars.  Before you know it, a 3 inch knot is 100 yards of thread....

If you need me to spell this metaphor out for you, its a huge amount of sugar in a small amount of space.  It all enters your blood stream just the same except now you have a huge amount of sugar without much getting in the way between this sugar and your blood.  This means insulin and this means fat gains.

Ruffage MAY help as the fiber creates a barrier of sorts between your GI Tract and your blood stream.  BUt really, the best thing to do is to avoid potatoes.

Keep in mind I haven't touched on toxicity of the potato at all yet before addressing it as a food to avoid.  Just steer clear of it.

@Aero: I learned my info from multiple sources, not just here.  Limiting yourself to one source is a great way to get a "tunnel vision" view of fitness and nutrition

@Cheetaur: aw thats too bad.  But I will see you soon enough im sure, make it to the national jam :D  I am eager to see where both you and I end up in life, too :D


Offline Elet ET

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: +32/-19
  • Smite me, Oh Mighty Smiter!!!
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2008, 04:18:23 AM »
is that agreement and expansion?
ProParkour--ANTI-ADVERB!!!!!

If you don't like their rules, Refuse to play their game.
Anarchy is not CHAOS, but order without CONTROL.
Frederick, MD PK

Offline KC Parsons

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +82/-13
    • View Profile
    • Eat. Move. Improve.
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2008, 05:28:12 AM »
Steve has a point. Like phreak, I've learned a lot by absorbing information from the well-qualified people here.

I have a question/example.
I had just a medium plateful of baked potato,scrambled eggs, and cheddar cheese sprinkled somewhat generously on top.
I just got back from a decently intense parkour session.
What types of health benefits and detriments are there, and from what?
Thanks, this can give us an idea =]

To my wee extent of nutritional knowlege i can say protein in the eggs is good after a workout, it helps re-build muscle tissue. On the other hand Dairy isnt the greatest thing to eat after working out cus some people might get an upset stomach(bear in mind only some people), but a little bit of chesse probably wont do it.

But i just read an article posted in another topic on here, "the paleolithic diet," in which the author claims potatos are terrible for you, due to toxins and assorted other evils that are in them.

With a meal like that though i would personally throw in some ruffage just to help out the good ol' digestive tract.

I am going to double stress the point that you should experiment with milk on your OWN BODY and then determine whether or not it makes you sick or uncomfortable.  Personally, I am OK with milk.  Someone I work with won't touch milk because it gives him the runs.  It boils down to your personal needs, like everything else with dieting.

Potatoes are high in starches.  Starches are like little sugar bombs.  Once they hit your digestive tract (in fact, once they hit your TONGUE) all of the sugars in the starches begin to break down. 

Imagine a starch as a really complicated knot thats 3 inches in diameter of really fine thread and is tied very well and tight.  As your body unties this knot of finely wound sugars, the sugars break apart into smaller, simpler sugars.  Before you know it, a 3 inch knot is 100 yards of thread....

If you need me to spell this metaphor out for you, its a huge amount of sugar in a small amount of space.  It all enters your blood stream just the same except now you have a huge amount of sugar without much getting in the way between this sugar and your blood.  This means insulin and this means fat gains.

Ruffage MAY help as the fiber creates a barrier of sorts between your GI Tract and your blood stream.  BUt really, the best thing to do is to avoid potatoes.

Keep in mind I haven't touched on toxicity of the potato at all yet before addressing it as a food to avoid.  Just steer clear of it.

@Aero: I learned my info from multiple sources, not just here.  Limiting yourself to one source is a great way to get a "tunnel vision" view of fitness and nutrition

@Cheetaur: aw thats too bad.  But I will see you soon enough im sure, make it to the national jam :D  I am eager to see where both you and I end up in life, too :D


Thanks, I see what you're saying.
As far as tunnel vision, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't the only place I learn from. I just have to admit there is a lot of information that is full of win on here thanks to you guys who help us all out. I do like to look up things on my own and verify stuff as well, but I love the information here.

Offline Terry McIntosh

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Karma: +19/-7
  • Tear It Up Terry
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2008, 07:23:47 AM »
huh, i don't know why this thread was stickied or why there is even a debate anyway.  strike that, actually i do know WHY and thats because people don't know whats really good for you. In the 1960's if a person asked a doctor how to lose weight he simply said "just dont eat BREAD". That worked until the stupid food pyramid (which i have my conspiracy thoery about) came out. why cant you guys just eat veggies (green and leafy is best), lean meats (from animals that swim or fly), fruits (for faster sugar or "carb loading" after a heavy workout), nuts (fat source... yes you NEED fat) and take everything else in moderation???? a sandwich is not the end of the world, but it should not be daily. if you sit down a think about it, isn't lean meats, fruits + veggies, and nuts to snack on common sense? before you respond SIT AND THINK ABOUT IT ;) .


P.S. to marathon runners, you have different dietary needs so this is not for you.


p.p.s. NO ONE, NO ONE  here on apk works out like a marathon runners (im not saying one is better or worse just that we don't work out LIKE that) so don't go and say you the exception to the rule.  :P
I like to touch different kinds of surface textures.
Parkour lets me do that without feeling weird.

Offline Steve Low

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 5588
  • Karma: +287/-56
    • View Profile
    • Eat, Move, Improve
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2008, 02:42:38 PM »
Sorry terry, marathon runners don't really have different needs as opposed to the rest of us. Due to particular genetics? Sure. Due to the fact they run marathons? No. (if you're talking about carb loading that is).

Most of the energy during extended runs comes from oxidative phosphorylation and at an extended runs the main source of fuel for this is metabolism of fat through B-oxidation. Eating a diet higher in fats and lower in carbs will actually help speed up the process (or rather make it more efficient) for long distance runners to switch over to B-oxidation after starting a run thus making it more sustainable.

p.s. same thing occurs in the tour de france especially by the 3rd day or so.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 02:44:52 PM by Steve Low »
Posts NOT medical, training or nutrition advice
Site // Overcoming Gravity Book

Offline Ken PKChiro

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +103/-13
    • View Profile
    • Vital Balance Chiropractic, LLC
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2008, 03:50:57 PM »
another question would be... are marathon runners healthy?  nope.  Cardiovascularly, yes.  Overall, not a chance.  They have more problems than average joe.
Any information or advice given is not to be interpreted as diagnosis, or statements of causality, conditions should be evaluated by a licensed practitioner of Chiropractic or Medical Doctor IN PERSON.  Therefore treatment recommendation should be considered similarly and bears no consequence to me.

Offline Terry McIntosh

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Karma: +19/-7
  • Tear It Up Terry
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2008, 08:25:05 PM »
Sorry terry, marathon runners don't really have different needs as opposed to the rest of us. Due to particular genetics? Sure. Due to the fact they run marathons? No. (if you're talking about carb loading that is).

Most of the energy during extended runs comes from oxidative phosphorylation and at an extended runs the main source of fuel for this is metabolism of fat through B-oxidation. Eating a diet higher in fats and lower in carbs will actually help speed up the process (or rather make it more efficient) for long distance runners to switch over to B-oxidation after starting a run thus making it more sustainable.

p.s. same thing occurs in the tour de france especially by the 3rd day or so.

huh, good thing that doesn't matter to us ;)

so now the point is, there is no excuse to eat bread regularly.
I like to touch different kinds of surface textures.
Parkour lets me do that without feeling weird.

Offline Terry McIntosh

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Karma: +19/-7
  • Tear It Up Terry
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2008, 09:27:52 PM »
http://robbwolf.com

just go to the web site and read please.
I like to touch different kinds of surface textures.
Parkour lets me do that without feeling weird.

Offline Steve Low

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 5588
  • Karma: +287/-56
    • View Profile
    • Eat, Move, Improve
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2008, 08:37:15 AM »
another question would be... are marathon runners healthy?  nope.  Cardiovascularly, yes.  Overall, not a chance.  They have more problems than average joe.

Yeah, I was reading runner's world magazine they had in our PT clinic... they had like 4-5 full pages dedicated to injury advice. Still were also advocating static stretching before running (!!!). -_-

At least in one of them they cited studies where you get at least 30% protein (I was impressed) and up fat intake. But I doubt anyone who reads those magazines will actually follow that.
Posts NOT medical, training or nutrition advice
Site // Overcoming Gravity Book

Offline KC Parsons

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +82/-13
    • View Profile
    • Eat. Move. Improve.
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2008, 09:02:30 AM »
another question would be... are marathon runners healthy?  nope.  Cardiovascularly, yes.  Overall, not a chance.  They have more problems than average joe.

Yeah, I was reading runner's world magazine they had in our PT clinic... they had like 4-5 full pages dedicated to injury advice. Still were also advocating static stretching before running (!!!). -_-

At least in one of them they cited studies where you get at least 30% protein (I was impressed) and up fat intake. But I doubt anyone who reads those magazines will actually follow that.

So, you want dynamic stretching only before running? and static afterwards I assume...

Offline Alec Furtado

  • kicks butt.
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1992
  • Karma: +27/-6
  • Balance.
    • View Profile
Re: White / Wheat Bread Dilemma
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2008, 10:43:25 AM »
Wow, I swear I remember being told in P.E. freshman year that static stretching was the best form and dynamic is bad... :o

Talk about misinformation being spread around... :-\
Water conforms to the shape of it's surroundings. Do not be water. Shape your own life.