Author Topic: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?  (Read 28065 times)

Offline Mark Toorock

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Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« on: February 12, 2006, 07:18:28 AM »
I made a post on PAWA asking for PAWA's opinion, but they seem reluctant or refuse to give an answer.

What they say is "this is a parkour website, why should we talk about freerunning".


I feel that they are different, and that people are going to continue to use freerunning as a term for Parkour, is it? Should it be?

Are the two related? If so how? If not, why not?


PAWA did not supply answers to these questions. I put it out for anyone who wants to discuss, so that we as a community can decide if there is or should be a distinction, as I feel this will help to preserve parkour instead of allowing it to be watered down with other activities.

This is NOT to say in any way that Parkour is better that Freerunning (or vice versa) it is simply to determine if there is a difference.


I have also emailed Sebastien Foucan, who is credited with creating Freerunning, to ask him if the term is meant to be a different activity than Parkour, or simply a different word to describe the same thing.

Please post thoughts ONLY if you plan to provide evidence (even if just logical evidence) to support what you are sying, in other words don't post "They're just different" ... unless you have somehting useful to add or discuss :)



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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 08:19:43 AM »
Well, I'll take a stab at it:

When we debated this topic a few months ago, it was my belief that Freerunning and Parkour were one and the same. I recall that almost everybody involved in the debate agreed that Sebastien Foucan invented the term Freerunning* in an attempt to better describe Parkour to an English speaking audience. The question was whether the term had evolved or not, and if we as a group wanted to accept this evolution?

At the time I argued that while there was no website defining the term Freerunning, when Sebastien said that Freerunning was Parkour – he implied a concrete definition. If we are to respect David Belle and PAWWA’ definition of Parkour (because it was endorsed by the term’s creator), then why should we not endorse Sebastien’s definition of the term he coined – Freerunning. What is the difference between the two situations, and why did we allow one term to remain unchanged, while the other term drastically evolved? To me, it seemed that out of respect for the term’s creator we should not use it for anything other than its original meaning.

While my logic is still the same, I have now come to accept the term Freerunning as having a different meaning than it was originally intended for. I now accept it to mean, “Parkour type movements, plus added flair (flips, spins, ext…) that do not fit into the traditional “A to B� definition�. While I do not necessarily agree with this evolution (or understand it), I go along with it because this is what languages do - they evolve according to popular use. It now seems a bit ignorant to me when people continue using the term Freerunning as a synonym for Parkour while so many portray it differently.

It seems to me that a community wide definition would be very beneficial to the discipline as a whole because it would prevent further contamination and confusion.

On the topic of the actions themselves: I do acknowledge that there are two major sects in the Parkour/Freerunning world, purist Parkour, and Parkour mixed with tricks/flair. I think that having two distinct terms to define two separate arts is the only way in the long term to prevent widespread confusion and to properly depict the arts to the public/media.

* Imagine there are quotes around the term Freerunning every time I use it because it has no definite meaning.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 08:22:47 AM by Kipup »

Offline ERI104

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2006, 09:58:29 AM »
Quote
it was my belief that Freerunning and Parkour were one and the same.

that was my belief too until people started using the term 'free-running' when they did tricks and flips... i remember one person who did a lot of tricks and labeled his video "Free-running" and argued that his video was not about parkour but free-running.

I would hate to see this word be associated with tricking and flipping. The reason is because i use this term often in place of the term parkour. People hear "parkour" and think its something stupid...but when i say its "free-running" they get a better idea... I of course tell them later on that parkour and free-running are the same, and explain the philosophy behind it all.

Is it possible that free-running has become to define the actual movements of parkour, while parkour is the entire philosophy behind it along with the movements?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 10:00:39 AM by ERI104 »
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Offline SkyNative

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2006, 12:28:03 PM »
Well, I don't have the time to go back through all the old threads, but I'd like to hear more about this line of reasoning that Faelcind seems to have brought up first. Also, this is a completely separate notion from the "evolution of the word."

This dialogue was taken from the topic "Has Parkour Lost meaning?" (pg3): http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php?topic=265.0

Quote
"It's also not quite accurate to say that free running, is only defined as see: parkour. Free running is synonymous with  Sebastien foucan's definition of parkour which i do not think is the same as that described by David belle or apparently genereal practiced with in the french parkour community. Sebastien describes parkour thus "Parkour is move, adapt and feeling!!! Each person have is own way "my way is to be functional" "
So while his own practice is oriented towards the same goals as Davids he seems to to think that parkour/freerunning is open ended and defined by the each individuals practice. To me this to be exactly the idea of free running as it became accepted within the British parkour community before FRPK. I think other statements on his site(www.parkour.com) show a similar attitude." - Faelcind

Quote
"Becoming aware of the failings of art without context. He later chose to create his own path by developing the philosophy - His own method of learning based on autonomy, play and positive energy. Conveying to others his messages and philosophy has become Sébastien's quest. Sébastien has become a global ambassador of the Parkour / Free-Running discipline." - Parkour.com

Quote
"And with Sebs definition on parkour Vs. Davids. They may have two different ways of saying it, but that is two different ways of saying the same thing. You're not gonna point at Seb and say "oh hes a damn good at free running, He would be great if he practiced parkour though!" Seb does parkour, I'm not going to sit here and argue why I believe that, but don't just look at what he says, just watch him for 2 seconds. Two people that don't speak to eachother and did not collaborate on creating a definition are not going to come up with the same wording for it. But the goals are the same, and judging by the way seb moves, Id say that how you get there is the same thing too. If he has it worded to sound like something different, then i would play the language barrier card on that...
Then are you saying that Seb created a definition that is different (in meaning) than the one created by david? If so, what authority did seb have to do that? We certainly cant have two DIFFERENT meanings for parkour, one being synonymous with Free-running and one not. Then if you agree that Seb DOES have a definition that is completely illegitimate, does that mean we just scrap the name Freerunning to never hear it again?" - Skipper

Quote
"As for david versus seb's definition. I don't see how you can possible say that they're two different ways of describing the same thing. Maybe its the language barrier thing but from reading the site I don't get that impression, the genereal attitude on parkour.com is that parkour is the art of movement to be developed however you see fit, Sebastiens comments all fall in line with this. He says his way his utility, but thats not the same as David saying the way of parkour is utility. What right does Seb have to define parkour apparently no more then he has to call himself the co-founder of parkour, but he does just that on his site. Further evidence that Sebastien's see parkour differently then David can be found in his reference to David practicing the natural method of parkour.

What sebastien does looks like parkour as defined by DB to me, what he preaches and teaches sounds like something else. - Faelcind
(bold mine)"

Quote
"Instead of talking about "overcomming obstacles," he talks about being "fluid like water" which implies the overcomming of the obstacle, but also how it is overcome.
His site is attributed towards expanding on what parkour means to different people with different views on life. He Talks about parkour, and he doesn't give it a different definition, rather he talks about what your mind goes through while doing it. And think about it, if he practices what he preaches, saying "What Sebastien does looks like parkour as defined by DB to me" should pretty much sum up that his way and David's way are the same, its just what they are thinking while doing it that is different. David may think about getting to one place as quickly as possible, while Seb thinks about attaining as much positive energy... but Seb does that by getting to one place as quickly as possible. (not claiming to know what they think about while doing parkour)

Would you agree that actions speak louder than words? If so, I think they are very much the same, just different wording by two very different minded people. - Skipper"

So in summary the argument goes like this:
P. David Belle's and Sebastien Foucan's conception of Parkour are different.
(While David's is the common definition we all know and understand, at times when Seb is explaining it he seems to be explaining something quite different because of his emphasis on freedom of movement and individual creativity.)
P. Sebastien coined "Freerunning" as a synonym for Parkour.
____________________________
C. Thus, (ignoring evolution of language) Freerunning means the same things as Sebastien's conception of Parkour. (freedom of movement, Fluidity, individual creativity, etc..) Which is different from David Belle's conception.

-Now whether he has the authority to do so is another question, but at least it establishes the original meaning of freerunning. So I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this. Currently I am a little more convinced by Faelcind's arguments than Skippers (nothing personal!) but that may change, I just thought I'd propose it and see what evidence/counter-evidence people can pull up. Thanks

PS. Kipup, I liked your post as well.  :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 12:51:55 PM by SkyNative »

Kipup

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2006, 12:45:49 PM »
Nice post SKY, thanks for digging that up! That is exactly the thread I was thinking of, I just couldn't find it.

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2006, 02:19:56 PM »
Well, I have an answer from Sebastien himself.

Quote
Hi my friend!

 

First we created Freerun just to help the english community to understand  what is Parkour!

Now Freerun to me is still Parkour and means an attitude: travel, meet peoples share your experiences! FREE your mine, RUN over the world!

no argue, no revendication only a discipline: PARKOUR and THE WAY!

 

See you!

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Offline Rafe

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2006, 02:27:59 PM »
His answer no more clears up what he is saying then his previous statements on parkour/freerunning on his site. A better question would be does he accept david defination of parkour?
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Offline Swizz

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2006, 02:42:08 PM »
Here's the thing:

As far as Seabstien is concerned, freerunning and Parkour are one and the same.  But the problem is the world already has an idea of what "freerunning" is (similar to what MTV has supposedly dubbed "freestyle wlaking"), while Parkour is a completely new idea to most people.  And if we say Parkour is the same as freerunning to the public, they would misinterpret it.

Freerunning, to them, is doing tricks and fun things without the use of anything other than yourself.

Parkour, to us, is about fluidity of movement and overcoming obstacles.

As you can see, they are not the same.  But the average person would assume they were.

That's my two cents  :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 02:47:41 PM by Swizz »

Offline Rafe

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2006, 02:58:10 PM »
I don't care for these arguments about accepting free running as different from parkour because of common defination. Its an argumentum ad populum falacy just causes everone beleives something does not make it true.  A year ago it seems to me the majority of the "parkour" community accepted parkour as what your saying the genereal public see's free running as, that didn't make it the correct defination and many people worked long and hard trying to correct that misinformation. You have to come up with better reasons then common acceptance or word evolution.
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Offline Skipper

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2006, 04:11:59 PM »
Please, go on...


Thats the thing. People who seem to know something or two about parkour have avoided this like the plague. Thats what happened on  .net, everyone kept saying what you CANT do, and not what you CAN do. If you say " You have to come up with better reasons then common acceptance or word evolution"... then tell us some suggestions on what to come up with. M2 asked an INCREDIBLY reasonable question and everyone beat around the bush like it was their job.

So here we are. One person on .net said that you have to listen to the founder of the term. M2 did just that, we have our definition, its synonymous with parkour. No?

You may not be a supposed 'freerunner,' but that doesnt mean you can decipher differences between it and parkour. for example, i was a springboard diver before, NOT a clown diver (yes, clown diving is REAL and widely used and practiced), yet i was able to explain the differences without stating contraversial information. Its really not as hard as people are making it out to be.  ;) Thanks for the help, but if people cant come up with reasons for us not to listen to Seb, then hell, Ill just listen to seb  ;)

Offline Bachelarius

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2006, 04:50:20 PM »
The only reason not to listen to Seb is that right from the word go, from when JL was aired and the term was created, what was described was not parkour. Right from the start, it showed him doing acro, doing inefficient movements, doing the spectacular but the parkour itself was sparse at best.

and it was all refered to as free run.

So parkour was misrepresented... Then given a different name. And it said that sebastien was the founder of free run. It seems that the pieces all make up a pretty clear picture...
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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 05:00:15 PM »
Just like Sebastien Foucan reminded, "freerunning" was simply created as a "handy" word to have English speaking "audience" understand better what the discipline is since the word "parkour" in itself didn't express anything tangible. It was chosen then since there was a parkour DVD planned, and at a time the parkour community in the UK and even worldwide was extremely small. It was a very underground discipline, much more than now, that needed more exposition on the International scene. That was years ago.
Now, given the worldwide growth of the parkour community, given the much better understanding of the discipline, its techniques, its history, its roots and its purpose, I believe "freerun" now could easily be dropped. It was let's say maybe "convenient" in early times of parkour when it needed some more recognition abroad (out of France), now the word has already become part of history. It is no "taboo" or forbidden to use it sometimes, but everyone should know now that only parkour is the appropriate term.
Just like APK emphasizes on French parkour techniques terms as part of the educational role they wish to play in the parkour community, and I believe it is a good thing, it should also be spread that freerun should no longer be in use, since it WAS only a different word for parkour, not a different thing. However, just like some new English words were created to replace French ones, it is not a crime to sometimes use it, but it would be better and more genuine not to, that's all.

Now, some people might be interested in keeping it, stating it is a different thing than parkour, a related discipline but with an altered or modified purpose, so they could feel free to promote something that "looks like" parkour without being parkour, especially for commercial projects. That's what UF did with FRPK before they dropped it. Isn't it ?

So if anyone now was to state freerunning is something different than parkour, I don't see why PAWA should have to officially define a kind of hybrid commercial discipline they don't give a.....of.

Offline Bachelarius

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 05:25:00 PM »
Hey, just to continue this here instead of .net, where people basically coudn't care less:

Quote from: me
How can we make a statement about something that we don't really know about? I mean the only resource out there about it is Jump London and to a lesser extent Jump Britain...

But even there it was meant to say Parkour and was simplified to freerun

The only way foward is if someone interviews sebastien about a word which was misrepresented from the start and lost him a lot of respect with a large community? Good luck to the person that that has that little chat...

Point is that we can't just step in and impose a definition. It's a lot easier to contrast parkour to say... 3run/StreetStunts. Less hastle, there is no bullshit surrounding it and the people behind it are more approachable.

If anyone other than seb makes any sort of statement about freerun (I'm guessing your refering to the media portrayal that it's had, rather than what seb's specifically said about it..), then you will always get ignorant idiots who say 'No it's the same thing as parkour' Nothing anyone says to them will change their mind...

Quote from: Mark
Bach, I find it very interesting tha you say "There is less bullshit and the people around it are more approachable" (or something like that) ...

What makes you think the people around freerunning aren't approachable? Why is there any bullshit?

I mean seriously, we can take that atttitude, or we can take the stance that this IS an issue, that people do confuse and mistake Parkour, and that if WE ALL don't work to fix it, then Parkour continues to get further from the source.



By approachable I meant they are simply easier to communicate with and are more aware of the global scene than Sebastien who has better things to do than to argue politics. It's a lot easier to hold a discussion about their art, one without any questions as to what they are about, than about free run which has a hell of a lot of different interpretations around it. That is the bull shit I talked about. The fact that no one can make their mind about it.

And the (very rough) quote 'free running is going your way. acrobatics are not part of my way, but if it is yours, great' contradicts the idea that freerun=parkour. It has at least two separate definitions, and those are both Seb's... Seeing yet why it's not a topic that people dont particularly want to dwell on?

And if we do give it a stable definition, then what? What will that achieve? Give another (for some people) art of the same thing as 3run? Or another name for parkour? It's just not needed. So yeah, I kinda do see what Jerome and andi meant by this being a waste of time...
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Offline Skipper

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 05:40:10 PM »
Thank you Erwan!

The only reason we were so interested in getting PAWA's response is because it has some adverse effect on Parkour depending on what the final word was. We are not the creators of parkour, nor are we associated with, so figured it would be nice if we would initiate the conversation so parkour would be represented CORRECTLY and in COORDINANCE with the likings of PAWA.

Ive heard a million times "freerunning is like parkour, but without the mindset, leaving room for some added tricks.... blah blah blah"
I believe this is true, it is "like" parkour.... i know its not the same thing, but its surely "like" parkour. Now, the dilema is wheather or not to remove the word 'parkour' from the description of freerunning.

And its not necessarily only used to commercials and paying jobs, i know a bunch of guys that like doing it for fun. More power to them if they have fun. So i wouldnt just drop the term all together, but if what seb says is incorrect, and nobody else is qualified to fully define it... what are we left with?


EDIT: i posted this before bach.

@ Bach. If we start describing it as 3run, that would cause a bit more confustion because 3run describes what they do as street stunts, FREERUNNING, and wushu. I think the term is too far into the mix to just drop it, but thats just my 2 cents.

I'd also like to thank you guys for a nice discussion. Very well mannered and handled nicely. It wasnt very open-minded elsewhere  ;)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 05:49:09 PM by Skipper »

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 06:00:31 PM »
Erwan, I agree with much of what ytou say, however you attach "commercial" to Freerun, could it not possiby be that there was no commerical intent, but simply to help spread information, and thus "educational" instead of "commercial"?

You also say that some people may wish to use it for that, what about all the people who do it because it is simply what they enjoy, people who do acrobatics, etc?

I agree that UF has done that for commercial projects, indeed David Belle has done commercial projects which show his abilities of what appears to be parkour combined with acrobatics!

As for why PAWA should have to make a statemnt on it, it is VERY clear that many people in the world DO have a misconception, this is what I started out saying, and I am still saying it. PAWA is the worldwide association for Parkour, wouldn't they want to clear up the single biggest misconception about Parkour?

I don't understand they wouldn't??




Bachelarius, in a separate stream of conversation:
"Right from the start, it showed him doing acro, doing inefficient movements, doing the spectacular but the parkour itself was sparse at best."

While i will not assign blame to David Belle, this is what many of his videos showed as well. No, he did not say "this is Parkour" .. and in fact in one video (at least) he says "this is not parkour" ... but for the most part, the founder of the art had many materials out with a representation of mixed arts without an explanation.

(Edit: Added ... I do agree with you that this is what the television shows Jump London and Jump Britain did. I feel the reason (not excuse, not correct) for this was to be ABLE to bring the movement to a bigger platform, primetime television. I think it is the same reaosn that things like "Rush Hour" had flips and other movements.)

I have to say that at best that helped to foster misinformation.

I know that I will probably be attacked and people will paraphrase to me saying "how can David misrepresent what he created" ... but I have just said how, so unless you back it with intelligent commentary, please don't bother telling me what I already know :)

Edit: written before I saw Skippers.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 06:36:50 PM by M2 »
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Offline ERI104

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2006, 06:02:00 PM »
I use the term "free-running" only to people completly oblivious to the art. Then i go on to use the term parkour for the rest of the conversation and i just tell them that parkour is the more formal word for free-running. I don't know if i should discontinue this because it kind of helps me make the message clearer and gives them a better perspective.... mainly because they hear "parkour" and think its something weird or stupid....but they hear free-running and they automaticall associate running plus something extra.
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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 08:21:00 PM »
PAWA is about parkour. Freerun is to them something else and you already know why. You KNOW the whole story. I think it is also up to you guys to decide whether you want to acknowledge PAWA's guidance or not. THAT is THE question. ;D
If yes, everybody knows freerun stands for nothing else than an inaccurate and illegitimate substitute name for parkour. To be buried, forgotten, or even denied, as simple as. Unless you enjoy that "freerunning energy drink" so much... ;D

If not, you want to feel free to use whatever name you like, ok, but know that this is exactly the same behavior as choosing to state flips are part of parkour, or that the purpose of parkour is "freedom of movement" and all these kind of misconceptions.
Personnaly, I don't need a statement from PAWA to know that. DO YOU ?!?  ::).............how.........weird.........

If some forumers on parkour.net were not that open-minded to such a topic, yes I agree that hostile reactions are not a good way to bring people together nor to educate people eager to learn or find relevant guidance, totally, but I think ought to you know why, why do you seem to be surprised ? I would even say that most of you guys knowing all the story, it is even a kind of provocation. Come on, talking about freerun on parkour.net ? Are you Mark a newbie on the parkour.net scene or what... It's like asking your dad if it's wrong to lie or steal when you're already a grown-up  ::). Non-sense. My opinion. ;)

So now if you want to still go on debating on (what is to me) a pointless issue, one that has long time been answered...do just as you wish of course !  :) ;)
And last thing, I'm not posting here to try to convince anyone ! It is simply respectfully expressing my opinion. So, I accept people might have different views. This is why, since I am NOT debating, I won't post anymore about this issue not matter reactions or additional questions could follow this note.

Best regards to all, train well, train hard, have fun  :)

Offline Rafe

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 11:15:38 PM »
Skipper I have stated my thoughts before and didn't feel the need to extend on them in this thread they have allready been quoted. If I see a good new argument about the facts or a clear statement by Sebastien I might want to extend on or rescind my position but baring that they're allready in the thread why would I need to restate them.

The only thing that realy boggles me in this thread is Bach's 3run vs. free running thing. Bach I love your posts I follow I find you one of the most informative guys to read in the whole community but we have had this debate before. 3run is freerunning or at best a sub section of free running that refers specifically to three arts that team evolution chose to include in their freerunning.

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I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2006, 05:56:11 AM »
Erwan, you may read this (I think you prorbably will) ...

The reason why I ask this on Parkour.net is because we DO look to them as an authortiy. With David Belle included in the group how could anyone reasonbly NOT see them as the authority on Parkour?

Now, you raise a good point ...
Quote
It's like asking your dad if it's wrong to lie or steal when you're already a grown-up  . Non-sense. My opinion.

The fact is, everyone, including the people on Parkour.net, as proven very recently in this thread, is STILL LYING or worse, doesnt even know what a LIE IS. (I'm using your anaolgy and wqill continue to)

I have been saying for two years that Seb originially created the term to mean the same as parkour. For two years I have put up with countless arguments and people telling me that's not true. It has come to the point where I was ready to accept Freerunning as "Parkour like movement plus acrobatics with a goal of having fun or showing style".


Now, I ask the question of PAWA, show me one person who had a good, decent, or correct answer?

I know you didn't answer until after I emailed Seb.

So, while everyone continues to have the misconceptions and "lies" I feel it is important to keep asking dad to tell everyone what is a lie and what is the truth. Dad is certainly going to tell them what Parkour is, he has been telling them what Parkour isn't for over a year now, but when I ask a question that is a very real world problem, and I voulunteer to be part of the solution, no bitching by me, no antogonizing, there is no answer.

You of course come in with your normal, polite, well worded responses, but I'm afraid they don't contain any information either.

I've asked a very valid question, we all know people have confusion on this issue, and yet you continue to say that it doesn't deserve an answer.

I feel this is like saying "I will teach parkour to everyone who already understands, but for those who are confused, they should just know what it is already".


You've said you won't answer, you don't have to. What I will continue to try to do is find an answer to this issue which I feel continues to confuse people.


 
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Offline Deft

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2006, 07:26:58 AM »
A while back ago when I posted vids of the group I run with and we called our style Freestyle Parkour. Everyone posted in return and wanted us to not call our sport/art/discipline Freestyle Parkour. A lot of people were REALLY insistant that I call it Freerunning and that it was "definantly not Parkour."

I believe Seb. coined the term Freerunning to help a English speaking audience understand better but somewhere along the way it turned into the category of being parkour but with freestyle and flair (allowing flips, spins and such.) I feel this is the "accepted term for people who do parkour but with a flip or so every here and there.

I do feel that there is a difference between the two and that by calling what you do freerunning over parkour means that it is acceptable when you do a flip and that if you call it parkour then you will get flamed. (I also want to point out that I feel Freestyle Parkour and Freerunning are one in the same. I prefer the term Freestyle Parkour over the other even though it was coined by a sellout- it still best describes what I do since it IS PARKOUR. I feel that removing the term "parkour" from the title destroys a lot of the philosophy I hold so close to heart. I feel that if Seb. knew that by coining the phrase "freerunning" that flips and spins would be accepted he could have just as easily called it Freestyle PK or came up with something better that portrays the fact that the PARKOUR philosophy is still in the mind but a flip and spin can find it's way in there every so often.)

I feel that over 90% of the people here at least "train" Freerunning/freestyle parkour. MY proof is in all the media that gets shared here. It's just that most people only call it training and say it's not "real." I feel that if you take the time to actually TRAIN and LEARN these movements (flag stance, flips, spins, handstands, reverse vaults, and any and all of the other "non-efficient" moves then you are fueling the art of Freerunnung/Freestyle Parkour.

I don't want to point fingers but since the VA pakour scene with the merry men and it having APK on their videos and the Tribe and Dispersion vids. Sometimes they make a video with flip in it and then they flash a silly "flips are not parkour" text across the screen then (most of) the same peope make another video (to sell) and it has flips but yet is being sold as a parkour video and there was no silly "disclaimer."

I think it's cool they flip and such in it and that it is being sold. it is a GREAT piece of work. BUT I feel it has to be called Freerunning or Freestyle Parkour which I haven't seen them do (I may be wrong but don't think so. If I am someone show me.)
I think actions like that fuel the confusion on "is freerunning different than parkour."

(Before all you smite me for my post please remember that I am only trying to express my thoughts on this matter and I am not trying to me negative to anyone in any way. I am trying to share my thoughts on this in a clear and polite manner. I'm sure some people will not like seeing the word "freestyle" brought up agin but I felt it was necessary)

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