Author Topic: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?  (Read 28696 times)

Kipup

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2006, 11:11:47 PM »
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free running to me is really just a thrill seekers area

CabPettit -
 Ã‚   That's an interesting way to look at the activity, but to many, Freerunning is more than just a physical activity. Even if we can't all agree on a concrete definition, most people will tell you the this type of "thrill seeking" does not fall into even the MOST liberal definition of Freerunning. To define freerunning as you have, is to deny any and all roots in Parkour, something which few on these boards are willing to do. Your definition of freerunning is actually a perception that many of the members of these boards work hard to eradicate. Personally I believe that both Freerunning and Parkour are much more than simple "thrill seeking".

I reccomend you read the "What Parkour is" and "What Parkour is Not" summaries found on the home page. These articles will give you a good idea of the beliefs of most people on these boards.
http://www.americanparkour.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=221&Itemid=1
http://www.americanparkour.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=223&Itemid=1

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I guess I'll just have to enjoy good knees while I still can.
- I strongly advise you to start caring about your joints IMEADIATELY. The more care you show your body now, the longer it will last you.

M2 - You would be fine accepting a new definition of Freerunning that denounces all roots in Parkour??

Offline Skipper

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2006, 11:37:54 PM »
Freerunning has no roots in parkour, parkour has roots in freerunning. When you were a child, did you ever try and gain maximum efficiency while over comming obstacles, or did you just jump off shit with no purpose? Hah, dont take that comment super serious, its just something to think about, not comment on.

Some people say parkour is a mindset, if you dont have the mindset, what are you left with?

What kind of roots connect parkour and freerunning? you might do some of the same movements, but what can you say? "freerunning is like parkour without the mindset".... kinda like saying some new sport is like basketball without the ball.

Thats the thing with freerunning, What rules or definition say it cant be just thrill seeking? I swear to god I will shoot myself in the liver if i ever have to moderate a thread saying "Flips arent freerunning!" Parkour is set in stone, we know what it is, no mystery and its not what you want it to be. Freerunning on the other hand, is exactly what it says it is, its running with freedom. Do a flip, do a spin, jump off of something, whatever, can you say thats not freerunning? Hell, i even get a thrill from doing parkour, let alone freerunning.

The links you gave him do well with describing what parkour is and isnt, it says nothing about freerunning though. So those dont account for everyone on these boards. For all I care, he can have no idea what parkour is, and only know about freerunning. I would like everyone to know about everything just in case they were trying to argue a point, correct info always helps, but if he just wanted to talk about freerunning (and avoid pointless pk threads, we all have seen them haha), then by all means.

I would like to see people educate themselves about the human body and nutrition and proper care, be careful about joints and such, and take what they do seriously and have it become their life.... but ill be damned if i ever yell at someone for not taking parkour or freerunning serious enough. We do parkour because its fun, its up to the individual to decide how weaved into their life it will become.  :)

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2006, 07:35:31 AM »
Kipup, I think you are mixing terms here. Parkour and Freerunning are related in a very vague and ambiguous way, not a very direct way. Freerunning (as we currently use the term) ISN'T related to parkur in the sense of philosophy and purpose, only in a physical sense, and the physical sense, while certainly present in Parkour, is not nearly the defining part of it, the physical is just what happens when you do the mental.

One thing that people are going to see is a slight change from me, we've all (Im the most guilty) gotten into this bickering over little shit on the internet mode, and I think we should work to fix it (at least I will)

So when I tell someone I think they have the right idea, please don't read every word, read the intention, the broad strokes. Also take into consideration what that person's views are.

If a new person show a bit of understanding, it should be complimented and fostered, not squashed with Parkour Nazi precision.

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Offline Skipper

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2006, 07:39:16 AM »
internet sucks!

Kipup

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2006, 08:13:24 AM »
Skipper - Thanks for your thoughts on Parkour being rooted in Freerunning. I've never thought of that before and will have to take it into consideration.
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For all I care, he can have no idea what parkour is, and only know about freerunning.
As far as this goes, I know that he is a Freerunner, and that as such he doesn't have to know what Parkour is. But he seems new, and considering that many on these boards practice Parkour, I thought that a little more information might not hurt. As you guys have consistently said "Our goal [at APK] is to educate the people about Parkour and Freerunning and let them make the decision as to which is better for them"

M2 - I recognize what you are trying to do and respect it.

I was NOT trying to force my views on to CabPettit, rather give a new member of the community more information about the discipline I love: in hopes that he will do whatever he wants to with that newly acquired info.

CabPettit - I hope I didn't come off as a conformist "Nazi". That is not the first impression of the community I want you to be left with.
Let me start again up by saying: Welcome to the community! Read up on PK (it is some interesting stuff) if you want to, if not just keep on doing your thing!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 08:18:55 AM by Kipup »

Offline Skipper

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2006, 08:39:05 AM »
Right, It just sounded like you were giving freerunning the same background, philosophy and reputation as parkour at the time. "its more than just a thril, etc." implies that both parkour and freerunning have that deep mindset, whereas, we havent quite figured out a definition for freerunning, but its definately more physical than mental.

no harm no foul though, thanks for the input kip!

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2006, 09:27:00 AM »
Kipup, the "Nazi" comment was definitely not aimed at you, I hope you didn't take it that way. I am talking about the general feel of many of the internet boards for Parkour, not even necessarily APK, but I don't want APK to ever get like that :)
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Offline CabPettit

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #87 on: February 18, 2006, 11:06:48 AM »
Thanks for all the input. It took me awhile to read(slow reader), but it makes sense.

Kipup-I dont take offense that easy (besides the only real way to get me mad is to mess with my shoes). However, you are right though I did come here to read up on Parkour with an interest. I am starting to think though however that a word defined meaning is useless unless you experience it. And that's where the confusion is I think, because if I wanna go out and practice Parkour, how do I know that I'm not just free running still?


I don't add that question to add a lot of complication, even though I know it will most likely get a lot of people thinking about it and cause a longer conversation here. So, there are actually obvious distinctions between free running and parkour, or to at least what some people define it is as. But how can you tell the difference when things get way similiar? Is it really how you think about what you are doing or is it what you are doing?

The body bends through the wind to pass what is ahead, while those that don't fall behind and become nothing more than teenage trends.

Kipup

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #88 on: February 18, 2006, 11:42:52 AM »
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I am starting to think though however that a word defined meaning is useless unless you experience it
\
Cab - That's a pretty deep insight, especially for someone new to the Parkour/Freerunning world - nomatter what we say online, you should just do what you enjoy the most.

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wanna go out and practice Parkour, how do I know that I'm not just free running still?
Very simply, if you define freerunning as just the actions, then you know you are doing Parkour when your intention is either to escape something or to reach a certain (physical or mental) goal. If we use these modern definitions, freerunning is when you are just messing around training - looking for that thrill, while Parkour is when you are moving in a manner that will speedily/eficiently get you from point "A to B".
For exapmle: if you are in front of your school which consists of railings, stairs, pillars, dividing walls, ext... and you pick a spot on the other side of the building, your goal goal being to get there as quickly as possible using your environment to your advantage - your run to that spot is considered Parkour.
Does that make sense?

More useful Pk info...
Now, because no two environments are exactly the same, the movements you use to traverse this space are always unique. This is why there is no set "trick list" of movements to master, because Parkour can consist of any concievable movement of the human body. The "basics" consist of various vaults and other techniques that can frequently be used in many different situations. It is reccomended that you train these basics early on so that when you confront a new situation, you have a large arsenal of movements to negotiate your environment with. The more experienced a Traceur comes, the more easily he is able to negotiate a complex environment.

...Just some thoughts I wish had been presented to me when I first started. I hope I didn't get carried away - just trying to help educate

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2006, 07:56:53 AM »
I have an answer from Joss now. I believe from his response that he has also spoken with David, but that is not necessarily true. THis is also posted on the homepage, I feel it will be a very important step in ending many of the arguemnts over what is / isn't parkour or freerunning. The other piece to this is Sebastien's answer, since Freerunning is really Sebastien's term. I feel that this answer is fairly consistent with the way that most people use the term "Freerunning" today, albeit I think people do it for fun as well as exercise and self improvement, where the PAWA statement takes more of a stance of "showing off".


From Joss:
Free Running ? A kind of demonstration mixing parkour technics, and acrobatics to be more spectacular and serve the medias and marketing, but also a sport. The term Parkour has been invented by David Belle and Hubert Koundé in 1998 and the word Free Running has been created much later by Sebasten Foucan for the purpose of spreading Parkour in a marketing fashion (they thought the word "parkour" wasn't international enough and Sebastien Foucan proposed them this word).
The problem is that they fully mixed acrobatics to impress people. This is where Freerunning becomes different from Parkour.

To make a comparison, Free Running is like artistic katas in martial arts, the goal is only to be spectacular.

So it is related to parkour but doesn't answer to the same philosophy. I mean, when you pratice to show how spectacular your jump is gonna be, people aren't focused anymore on the difficulty, on the obstacle but on you. This showing off attutude isn't the parkour philosophy which preaches for humility. In this, Free Running and Parkour are fundamentally opposite even if the first one is related to the second one. Like the traditional way and the freestyle way.
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Offline Skipper

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2006, 08:03:05 AM »
thats seems to be a pretty expected answer  ;) glad joss could help us out! say thanks to him for me  ;D

Offline Brian Belida

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2006, 09:18:21 AM »
Groovy, it's good to have something said from Joss about it.
It's also a nice show as to how close and awesome the entire parkour community is!

Then again maybe I'm a big sap :p

Offline SkyNative

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2006, 09:42:02 AM »
I posted this comment under the news item but it can be deleted as it's more appropriate here...

"...the goal is only to be spectacular."
"This showing off attutude..."
 
If that's what freerunning is about then I don't do freerunning. But I disagree that that is the only goal, or even a primary goal. While it may be for some freerunners, personally my main goals are to have fun, advance my skills, and stay in shape. It's still very creative, so it's more an art than a sport. I would even propose that freerunning allows for even more creativity than parkour. 
 
I await Sebs call, since it's his word he seems to be the #1 authority on it. hmmm :?

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2006, 10:23:14 AM »
I also posted this on the main-page...I think they both belong in both places:

I would say that this is where the difference lies. Parkour is much less about being creative in the standard sense of the term. The creativity comes from your use of basic tools to overcome increasingly complex environments rather than using increasingly complex tools that don't necessarily get the job done any better.
 
In Parkour, you are creative in your choice of paths through any given environment (which is a direct correlation to your mastery of basic skills through many various possible obstacles). In freerunning you are creative in your choice of movements for their own sake, independent of the environment, in a sense.


Offline Sam Slater

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2006, 10:50:12 AM »
Also posted under news article.  Slight editing done after review.

I will not repeat what I said in the thread on this topic (referring to previous posts). I would like to ask if this "parkour philosophy" is needed to Parkour. Using a physical discipline as a vessel for a philosophical one does not create necessity in the other opposite direction. I am not stating that I feel that Parkour should be done without this philosophy intertwined within it, I am simply stating that the comparison or debate on these two activities seems to move more into comparing the philosophy that is behind these activities at times, and seems to me that it is possible to have the underlying philosophy without the specifically defined actions, or vice versa. If it were placed in a definition that the actions were dependent upon the philosophy then that would be different, however most definitions that I have read define Parkour as the method of escaping or reaching (or something along those lines), and not as "the method of escaping or reaching that is done in the pursuit of the following virtues/mindset/etc."

Not that the follwing statement is in any way a positive contribution, but I like Gear's comparison.

Offline Deft

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2006, 10:56:04 AM »
Seb. Foucan- "Action without philosophy has no meaning."

The joy of surpassing the limits of the body is open to all.
-Mihaly Csikszentmilhaly

Offline Sam Slater

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2006, 09:05:17 AM »
Yes, action without philosophy has no meaning.  My point was that a specific philosophy and these specific actions have not been tied together in definition.  Due to this it is possible to perform these actions without the philosophy that has been implied, but with a different philosophy.  I have not been attempting to state that there is not a philosophy that people should or should not follow, I have simply been attempting to illustrate the point that in an attempt to define these actions, people have alluded to the philosophy behind them, and then arguments/discussions have taken place on these philosophies and from what I have been reading, some people have begun to confuse the definitions of these actions with the philosophies behind the actions. 

Short response:  Yes, physical needs mental, but physical is not mental.

**Note: I do realize that the "short response" can be disputed by individuals who do not have a world view that is based upon duality of the individual, however I stated that response in that manner as I felt that it would be generally easier to understand.

Offline SkyNative

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2006, 09:40:36 PM »
Well since there hasn't been much discussion on this since the new Seb post Ill start off, here's the original...

Quote
M2: Do you think the PAWA definition of Parkour is "The" defintion, or only "a" definition?

Seb: I don't know what is the Pawa Definition sorry! But Parkour is Parkour but each person can do his own Parkour, This is Free...Running attitude, Who has the truth? For me "the Way" is the truth!

M2: Do you think parkour includes movements like a flip or a wall spin?

Seb: Parkour is for everyone and it's includes what you'd like to include! but Argue isn't and will never be PARKOUR!

M2: Can Freerunning contain these things, a flip or a wall spin? What is the main purpose of Freerunning?

Seb: Freerunning or Parkour it's the same! It's absolutely Free . I prefer definitely the functionality, Parkour is basically efficient!!! People should never forget the basic! Also the positive attitude!!! ;)
(bold mine)

Although, as M2 said, this is still somewhat vague, it seem to me that our hypothesis was correct; That although Seb believes that Freerunning=Parkour, he has a different definition, or understanding of what parkour actually is than the generally accepted Belle/PAWA definition. It's certainly arguable that he doesn't have the right/authority to redefine "parkour" however he does have free reign over "freerunning." So I think it's ok to accept his definition of "freerunning" while not accepting his idea of "parkour" even though, to him, they are one in the same. I bolded some particular parts that make me believe his idea of "parkour" is more in line with our accepted idea of "freerunning"

So what do yall think. I am confident enough now to use the term freerunning as an inclusive style that can involve many different types of movement including flips, spins, etc.  without concern of misrepresenting it.

PS, Im still wondering about the prefence of a. "Freerunning" b. "Free Running" or c. "Free-Running"
"Freerunning" seems to be the most commonly used in his message.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 09:43:58 PM by SkyNative »

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2006, 06:17:01 AM »
I agree sKynative, I think that this verifies the way we have been using "Freerunning". It won't change my mind that David Belle's definition of Parkour is "The" definition.

I also feel this works very well for the community, we now have two different activities, neither of which needs to conflict with the other. I don't feel either one is good, bad, or better, just different. I feel they are loosely related in that many people who enjoy one may enjoy the other and that for the most part they'll be similar types of people who enjoy both.

My biggest hope for this is now when people talk about one or the other, they don't feel a need to be condescending or anything towards the other one.

Two separate activities, two separate goals or reasons, zero need to argue.

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Offline Rafe

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Re: Is Freerunning Different than Parkour?
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2006, 02:13:27 PM »
Whose our Skynative. I remember at the begginning of this site when I argued this line of thought many people argued that free running was just a snynonym for parkour. In any event glad to see everone coming to similar understanding  ;D. Clear definations defineatly foster healthy dialogue.

Free Running = The discipline described by Foucan

Parkour = The discipline described by Belle

Art Du Deplacement = Overall term covering both

Yamakasi = Same thing as free running named years earlier.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 02:19:36 PM by Faelcind »
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