Author Topic: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?  (Read 9324 times)

Offline hardcoretraceur

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 07:10:58 AM »
i think it's important to note that efficiency doesn't require speed. you may have plenty of time to get somewhere that you need to get to. you might be trying to retrieve a ball from a roof, and jumping between roofs would certainly be more efficient than climbing down one building and back up another. on the other hand, if the gap is of questionable distance and safety is a concern, it could be more efficient to get the ball by climbing down and back up again, in order to ensure that you get the ball at all.

in addition something that makes you use more energy but makes you go faster is not necessarily efficient. a kong for maximum exit distance for instance, in a place where it is unnecessary, is using energy that could be used for just running. a pop-vault may be more efficient in some cases and a slow climbup may be more efficient in others.

it's important to remember your goal, whether that means you have to get somewhere as fast as possible or you have to get somewhere without being seen, or without being seen, or you just have to get somewhere.

another important thing to remember in parkour is the goal of getting somewhere. in order to ensure that goal's success, you have to get there safely. i'm not saying there are no places where a flip could be effectively executed efficiently, but i believe that the training required to safely execute such a technique would take alot away from training techniques that are immensely useful.

im not saying to not train flips, im saying that you shouldnt try to justify your training through parkour, because i think you'll come up largely empty-handed. train how you like, any movement whether parkour or not will help parkour through body awareness and control.

remember that david belle is just a man. you can follow what he says and what he believes in, but at the same time you should try to start making these decisions for yourself.

i train for efficiency, but i dont feel the need to label what i do as parkour. so much of my training is inefficient unnecessary movements (efficiency through inefficiency). i have certainly used parkour, but only in a small scale. if i have to speed a few rails to get to a train on time, i'm glad that i am prepared to do so.

train flips so that you can do flips if thats what you want to do. dont search for justification, if you enjoy doing them, thats justification enough. i train with efficiency in mind, but there are certainly inefficient movements that i feel will be a rewarding addition to my training regimen. i think it is highly unlikely that you will ever have to qm on a rail, but i train it all the same. it increases my coordination and my strength and my stabilizer muscles. this will certainly carry over when doing other techniques.
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Offline Rafe

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2007, 12:21:43 PM »
To me parkour can only be considered parkour if you are being efficient because it is necessary.    when i go to a jam it is for practicing parkour movements as if i was doing parkour, however i have only truly used parkour once in my life.

Sorry but this is one the most persistent misunderstandings on the net about parkour that bugs me. Running the hell away from situation is not parkour, would your restrict yourself to just using your limbs in that situation or would glad take a bike care, plane whatever the hell. When you are escaping, or chasing or reaching that is what you are doing. Parkour is the training! To quote david belle "Le Parkour exists from the moment the human uses his limbs to overcome an obstacle." from the DB production blog "Parkour... is a sporting practice." Parkour is the practice not the emergency situation. 
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Offline Travis Hoover

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2007, 12:53:26 PM »
Back to flipping out of a high window, and the safety issue.  I wouldn't flip unless I was completely confident that I was going to land correctly and on good ground.  I haven't done any flips before, but it doesn't seem like you have a whole lot of time to prepare yourself for the landing once you've come out of the movement.

My take on it is this, figure out a way to turn yourself around so that you can pause for a second and assess the situation.  Since the techniques you're practicing are to be used in an escape and evasion situation or just trying to blaze your own path, you don't want to break your leg or something just because you didn't see that obsticle where you were going to land.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2007, 02:03:32 PM »

Sorry but this is one the most persistent misunderstandings on the net about parkour that bugs me. Running the hell away from situation is not parkour, would your restrict yourself to just using your limbs in that situation or would glad take a bike care, plane whatever the hell. When you are escaping, or chasing or reaching that is what you are doing. Parkour is the training! To quote david belle "Le Parkour exists from the moment the human uses his limbs to overcome an obstacle." from the DB production blog "Parkour... is a sporting practice." Parkour is the practice not the emergency situation. 

+1

Parkour is a discipline, the discipline is in the training itself... the training FOR efficiency, the training OF the techniques.  The difference between Parkour and freerunning exists in the training, the discipline, themselves, and not the techniques nor the USE of the techniques.  It is the intent of the training, the expression of the training.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
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Offline jamminb0111

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2007, 05:53:30 PM »
well here is another thing to talk about if flips are not parkour and the common consensus is that parkour is using your surriondings to get from point a to point b the most efficently as possible what about these other tricks (term used lightly) like the 270 tic tact toe you could just run up the wall you don't have to jump and spin and cling on to another totally differnt obstacle. and also when you say efficently do you mean staying as low as possible and not jumping ridiculusly high to get over and obstacle. an example would be if i were running through an open topped tunnel and climbed up the wall anyway i wanted would it really be parkour if i decided to do a tougher move than the simplist one available. ???

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2007, 06:56:09 PM »
well here is another thing to talk about if flips are not parkour and the common consensus is that parkour is using your surriondings to get from point a to point b the most efficently as possible what about these other tricks (term used lightly) like the 270 tic tact toe you could just run up the wall you don't have to jump and spin and cling on to another totally differnt obstacle. and also when you say efficently do you mean staying as low as possible and not jumping ridiculusly high to get over and obstacle. an example would be if i were running through an open topped tunnel and climbed up the wall anyway i wanted would it really be parkour if i decided to do a tougher move than the simplist one available. ???

When did anyone say a tac-spin-cat combo was efficient?  i think that's pretty obviously not efficient.

Efficiency includes speed, safety, and discretion.  Individual situations is not the best way to look at it.  That's the source of so much confusion...  "Well, if X, Y, and Z are true, then A  is the most efficient."  It doesn't matter.  Circumstantial.  Parkour is the training for efficiency and debating whether a technique is efficient in X or Y situation isn't going to matter in the long run.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
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Offline jamminb0111

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2007, 02:41:08 AM »
god this sux i have gotten myself into a debate before i have even found a decent place to practice. :-[

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2007, 05:02:53 AM »
god this sux i have gotten myself into a debate before i have even found a decent place to practice. :-[

The best thing to do is just go out and train.  :)  All comes with time, even understanding.  The first lesson I was ever taught was, "Just train.  You'll understand the spirituality later.  The more you train, the more you will understand."
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Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2007, 05:42:10 AM »
i think it's important to note that efficiency doesn't require speed. you may have plenty of time to get somewhere that you need to get to. you might be trying to retrieve a ball from a roof, and jumping between roofs would certainly be more efficient than climbing down one building and back up another. on the other hand, if the gap is of questionable distance and safety is a concern, it could be more efficient to get the ball by climbing down and back up again, in order to ensure that you get the ball at all.

in addition something that makes you use more energy but makes you go faster is not necessarily efficient. a kong for maximum exit distance for instance, in a place where it is unnecessary, is using energy that could be used for just running. a pop-vault may be more efficient in some cases and a slow climbup may be more efficient in others.


performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable: a reliable, efficient secretary.

Usually doing something with the least waste of time needs speed.

Offline Paul Leon Mederos

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2007, 07:25:20 AM »
Picture this.

Your on the 2nd floor of an apartment. Your being chased by a rapist with a knife. Your running down a corridor and you see a window that you judge to be about 2~3ft in height and width. You think to yourself that theres no way you can pike through it and you dont have the time to slowly crawl through it. And shit, theres no doors. If you decide to dive roll, you're going to land on your head from 2 stories up. What do you do? Well thank goodness for doing crazy shit at the gym, you decide you are confident enough with diving through the window and you have the air awareness and competence to rotate yourself in the air, causing you to land on your feet rolling away.

Obviously this is one in a million situation, but was that movement not spur of the moment? Was it not the best way to avoid your enemy, running away efficiently?

It's not a case of whether flips are/aren't parkour. It's a case of WOULD THIS MOVEMENT WORK given the proper situation. Who gives a care if it's considered parkour? You're not going to be debating in your head - "Ahh I'm a 'purist' I can't possibly force myself to flip through this window". You're going to do what you think best fits the situation; What gets you away from the bad guy.
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Offline hardcoretraceur

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2007, 07:49:21 AM »
performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable: a reliable, efficient secretary.

Usually doing something with the least waste of time needs speed.

what i was trying to show was that its more than the least waste of time. speed is a common outcome of efficiency but not a requirement for it.
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Offline kage

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2007, 08:14:02 PM »
Quote
It's not a case of whether flips are/aren't parkour. It's a case of WOULD THIS MOVEMENT WORK given the proper situation. Who gives a care if it's considered parkour? You're not going to be debating in your head - "Ahh I'm a 'purist' I can't possibly force myself to flip through this window". You're going to do what you think best fits the situation; What gets you away from the bad guy.

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Offline Traceur63

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2007, 08:38:09 PM »
A cheat gainer yer onli off the ground for a lil bit plus u land in a gud run afterwards 8)

Offline Zuxzux

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2007, 11:54:07 PM »
My biggest problem with the "flips aren't parkour" arguement is when I go on youtube and click on a "Parkour" video that contains 400 flips and 5 cat or kongs.

Offline Daniel0524

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2007, 07:03:27 PM »
I know what u are talking about, I have a batrhroom window right about five feet off the ground, Its not really high enough to flip out of, but dive rolling works reasonably well. the problem u will run into with the flip is that if ur window is standard size then u only really have enough room to dive out of it when its fully open. This means that once ur body is completly out of the window, which it needs to be to start ur flip, u need to perform a flip without any upward moentum in about six feet, which is impossible, or only for very expirienced freerunners, gymanst, traceurs to even attempt

Offline Jus7in

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2007, 08:00:36 PM »
The inward wall flip would look really cool if you broke the glass from the push off, and then fell out the window in a front flip.
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Offline Matthew Lee Willis

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2007, 06:20:47 AM »
This is retarded.  Think about it... What if you did a dash.  Got low to the ground.  Shot your feet out soon.  It gets you ready to spot your landing and you can dive through the whole because your leading with your feet...which is safer then leading with your HEAD...and then cliping your feet.

There is an infinate amount of possibilites here.  Its what your body says is the best.
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Offline Chris Ell

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2007, 04:29:54 PM »
Theres an example of a window flip from 1:20-130 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kujx99it2dU
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Offline chipset

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Re: The Window : Flip that IS parkour!?
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2007, 05:39:36 PM »
I think people nowadays are too busy arguing whether something is or is not parkour. In the same time, parkour is about flow and about choosing what fits you best for certain obstacle. It's also about physical conditioning, stretching, reaction, power, and mental bravery.
I think in a future we will have "philosophical jams" where people will spend time not working their
asses off but discussing "theory of parkour."
In other words, STFU and RUN!
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