Author Topic: Texas News Story  (Read 13835 times)

Offline Rafe

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2005, 01:43:45 PM »
Mathew if your puting a video of yourself inaccurately representing parkour up on parkour website its going to be discussed in that thread its ridiculous to expect otherwise. Your misunderstanding of parkour are so deep it hard to know were to start, you need to take your own advice and study up theres plenty of on parkour.net here and elsewere if you have specific questions please ask and more experienced traceurs will be happy to help you find the information you need.

Here is quick primer on what parkour is not
Parkour is not the art of movement(and biking and eating both involve movement to so whats you point?)
Parkour is not the art of flow
Parkour is not acrobatics in the street(thats straight from david belle)
Parkour is not whatever you want it to be(it was defined by its founder David Belle)

If you want to practice any of the above thats fine, no body is trying to take away your freedom or constrain what you do, we only want you to understand what parkour is. If you inspired by parkour but no interested in doing parkour thats fine theres plenty of other similar arts just don't call what you do parkour.
I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline klaymen

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2005, 01:45:44 PM »
Klayman- I am assuming that you consider yourself to be a pratcitioner of "parkour." I just went to page 2 of the vids and watched your clip. the VERY FIRST thing you do is climb a fence and then hold a flag stance then it cuts out. Do you seriously think that is part of traditional parkour? Maybe someone is being a bit hypocritical.

(on a side note:  I do like your vid. The music and general feel were good. I just wish you weren't hating on my group so much.)
and I know it's not really "hate" persay more than misguided attempt to keep a sport in a certain light or direction, but you are guilty of whatever accusations you made towards us so just get over it.

that was a training video. i also went over a rail, did a 270 cat and went back the exact same way i came from. if someone asked i wouldn't tell them it was parkour. just training which is what it was  ;)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 02:03:29 PM by klaymen »

Offline Deft

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2005, 02:30:10 PM »
Pistolwhip---whoa that's a lot of quotes. It's easy to pick at bits and such but you say nothing that leads me to change my thoughts on this sport/art.  Like your first quote and responce. That doesn't actually say where I error in your mind, but obviously you think I do. Same goes with your 2nd and 3rd quote/responce so those all served no purpose.

True, we may have coined the phrase "traditional parkour" that is only because there is definantly parkour and freestyle parkour.
I am not trying to turn anything around on kalyman but bottom line is he posted a vid where the 1st thing he did was a "freestyle move." Even if if was done in practise, it was mixed with pk moves and posted on a pk board for the audience of pk people. (sounds like the vids we post.)

I admit I do not act friendly towards someone who, after I post a vid, says something like "what you do is not pk and what you say is not pk." To me that is a slap in the face. I'm sorry I am not the better man to turn the other cheek, but I am trying to act somewhat civil and I try to reply and clearly state me thoughts to someone who is doing the same. There has been one or two to give "nice" critism and I they got nice in return. WHo has been nice and we treated poorly? We are in this "defense" mode only because WE are being attacked. 

the majority of the pics and vids (about 85%) have "frestyle" in them. Wouldn't that make the majority of the people here freestyle and not really practitioners of parkour?
If you really want I can tell you ratios and exactly how many are "true pk" and how many are not in a series of purple boxed quotes and then I can add my silly comments and laughter after each.

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2005, 02:44:08 PM »
okay, i'm only going to make one statement in this thread.  promise.

speed and efficiency are two different things.

efficiency:  Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input. (this is talking about energy, or work)

speed: the rate at which something happens.

okay, imagine a railing.  this railing is extending from a wall out 4 feet in distance, it is 3 feet high.  you are traveling right beside the wall.  upon reaching the railing, you can:

A: turn , walk slowly to the end of the railing, around it, and then back to the wall before continuing

B: sprint at the railing as fast as you can and kong it

option A uses less energy to get from where you are to where you want to be (in this case, simply the other side of the railing)
thus, it is more efficient.

option B accomplishes the same goal more rapidly, yet with a greater expenditure of energy.

i just wanted to differentiate between these two terms, people seem to confuse their meanings quite a bit.  "with speed and efficiency" is often used when describing parkour, but often you must sacrifice one to gain the other.

i'll leave you to decide whether option A or B is parkour...

rant/statement over. 



« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 02:50:44 PM by Steez »

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2005, 02:48:34 PM »
Quote
when cyrill and david do techniques outdoors they call it outdoor gymnastics as they go on runs with vaults and flips and such?
Show me where it says they call it that.

Hi,

When Cyril was in Toronto for the publicity for b13 .. He stated infront of the audience that he did not practice Parkour and that what him and David do are very different. He said he performs street acrobatics .. or "Street Acro" .. as he called it and it is not similar at all to Parkour.

Also,

FRPK is not an accepted part of Parkour. Sorry.

I really don't want to get into this thread... oh man.

Offline Rafe

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2005, 03:04:29 PM »
Steez parkour is both, its the best comprimise of the two as you would use in emergency situation its not hard to understand. Let say that rail is between you and burning building with your family inside are you going to want to walk around it/ run around it, no your going to want to get over it as fast as possible, however given a choice between equall fast method you will also want to choose the option that is most efficient in perserving your energy and health so that you can get into that burning building and save your family. So while jumping the rail may be as fast as vault it may be less efficient so you choose the vault, or vice versa.

Deft man you seriously need to read up a bit before you start spouting of the same arguments every one else has tried. Most peoples training videos and sampler are not pure parkour thats because its damn hard to capture pure parkour on tape, how many camera men would you need just to capture a single parkour run satisfactorially? Parkour videos are genereal samplers of the skills and training of individual traceurs allmost all of whom have skill's outside of parkour and train movements outside of parkour.

I am sure many traceurs do push ups as part of their training, nobody argues that their parkour, why cause nobody puts them in their video, why cause their allot less interesting to watch then flips or flag poles, the fact that flips and flagpoles and handsprings and handstands are more camera freindly does not make them parkour, it just means people are more likely to want to include them in their videos. 

I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2005, 03:13:55 PM »
faelcind, that was one of my points, you can't always have maximum efficiency AND speed in parkour.  they are both highly relevant to parkour, but you must strive for a balance. 

the main idea that i wanted to get across however, is that they are in fact two different things. 

you put down that idea of compromise much better than i did, however.  props.


Offline Ryan Ford

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2005, 03:15:38 PM »
Deft the answer to your arguement is simple. You guys are claiming what you do in your video is parkour. Its not. Klaymen did some things that werent parkour but he never said it was parkour. That is how it should be. Know what you are doing and know its appropriate title. Thats it.

Offline Brian Belida

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2005, 03:34:52 PM »
I openly offered help and suggestions, and you said "f#ck you."
This argument has been overdone by far. There are facts, and then there are people that are too stubborn and go out of there way to look for reasons to continue an argument, that [as I'll quote disciple again] isn't an argument at all.

Until I see some changes in your attitudes MatthewLeeWillis and Deft, I'm taking a step away.
Anyways, Santa Clause is outside on a firetruck. That's way better than this.

EDIT: See Demon's post, I'm outie-5000.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 03:36:57 PM by akh horus »

Offline Deft

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2005, 03:36:56 PM »
Demon and whoever- Klayman never says "this is not parkour." he mentions that he trains at that spot but that's about it.  I train traditional and freestyle at the places I flow at too. That's how you learn to flow there. (I am not going to quote him or anyone w/ the purple boxes. I don't like them, I know what I/you said the first time)

NO ONE has commented on that fact that over 80% of the pics and vids here and at UFF and all the other BIG PARKOUR HUBS have "freestyle" in them. A lot of them more than our vids and such.
like corndoggs pics, the superst0ne, and ( do you really wnat to name them all. it would be easier if I named the few w/o freestyle.

If I step outside my box and assume that I am the mislead one on this matter. What I come to is : Wouldn't that mean that the majority of the UFF crew does not do parkour? This goes fot the majority of people on here too.
Is that why people broke off and started this site? If that is true, it gives me understanding of where you all are coming from.

Most of the people here who are disagreeing with me are guilty of why they accusing me of. I have posted proof of this.
I know I am starting to sound like a broken record but what else can I say?


Akh- I didn't aim that comment at you. The postwhere I cursed  was in regaurd to one has been edited so it makes me look like I get mad for no reason 'cause you can't see the match that started the fire.  Basically someone "offered help" to formutale sentences as though we are a bunch of idiots who couldn't put out thoughts together. I am sorry for those who honestly and kindly tried to share their thoughts with me and if I was rude towards any of you - for that I am TRUELY sorry. I am not sorry for getting riled up when someone tells me I can't formualte sentences. I will get mad when someone who post freestyle on the boards says my freestyle is not parkour.

(the funniest part of this debate to me is that the only "trick" I can do is a front flip or wall spin. so I am in noooooooo way a trickster by far!!)

Believe me, I never wanted to be part of a "war."  I felt attacked, so I responded. That's how it went.
We can consider this topic over but eventually I am going to post another vid and someone is going to tell me it's not parkour but in the meantime the majority of people here will post stuff with as much if not more freestyle than our vids will ever have. I WANT this to be over, bur I feel correct in my thinking and do the opposing thoughts.
Let's just agree to exist and that some people here practise traditional parkour and some practise freestyle parkour but that we all have common interests and we all crave the flow.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 03:55:40 PM by Deft »

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Offline Sam Slater

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2005, 04:04:34 PM »
Mr. Willis, I do not consider myself a Disciple of Parkour.  I am not sure where you wanted to go with that question, however I appreciate the interest in my name. I think you and Mr. Deft need to take a breath and realize that nobody is attacking you and what you do personally.  We are only attempting to help and give advice for future reference.  The discussion was not Klaymen or myself or anyone trying to put you down for what you did, because when it comes down to it, getting information out to the public is a good thing.  The only thing that worries people is when the information is not correct.  As an individual in contact with the media you do not represent only yourselves when you discuss "Parkour", but you you represent all practitioners of the art.  Yes there are subdivisions of the art or off shoots or whatever you wish to call them, and it is fine to practice them, however one must be sure that they are represented as just that.  I enjoy doing flips, however when an individual asks me about Parkour, I am careful to describe the art just as David Belle describes it on PAWA's website.  I will tell people that flips are fun, and I do them every once and a while, however they are not part of Parkour.  I might mention FRPK and tricking if the individual insists on discussing flips, but I do not want to misrepresent Parkour.  Now there is a difference between footage that is given to the public and footage that is posted here on the forums.  Most footage here, as stated is footage of people training and it is usually not labeled as purely being of Parkour.  Even if it is and the actions therein are not of Parkour, the individuals here viewing them have already hopefully done a little research around the site and begun to formulate what Parkour is. Your footage was captured for the sole purpose of being shown to the public and therefor the definition of the images there in must be a clear and precise one.  For people watching that footage on television, that could be the only thing they associate with the word Parkour.

I am not sure if you have taken any martial arts, however I can create a parallel for you using them.  Currently there is a new sport martial art called Xtreme Martial Arts or XMA.  This new sport takes the traditional martial arts and adds to them gymnastics and breakdancing motions along with fancy costumes in order to create a more entertaining, exciting, and popular spectacle for the public.  The practitioners of this sport do not however confuse the XMA with a traditional art such as Wu Shu or Tae Kwon Do or Hap Ki Do.  Despite the existence of similar movements in both the XMA and traditional Martial Arts, they are not the same thing.  To say that what is done in the XMA competitions is what all Martial arts is would be detrimental to people who practice traditional martial arts because the XMA is competition oriented and has less focus on tradition and discipline and personal development, and many martial arts don't utilize gymnastic elements. This is why people have reservations about your news article.  Misrepresentation of something is detrimental to the advancement of it, because it creates false images for the public to latch on to.  It might seem silly to tell a reporter about the division and separation between Parkour and tricking and FRPK, but it is important because if you do not tell people about it right away, you will have a harder time explaining the differences to them later on, as they will already have these ideas and images in their minds.

 In response to the on-line community not "flaming" the office parkour pictures, that is because those pictures were not circulated to the public stating "this is parkour".  If they had been then I could all but guarantee you that there would have been even more people saying that those images would be detrimental to spread of the image of Parkour because they promoted inappropriate use of private property as well as techniques that were "not parkour".

 Nobody is saying that people can't do these techniques, they are only asking that people who do them call them what they are so that they are not associated improperly with other arts.

I apologise to the members reading this post, as I know that I have been rather long winded. I feel that enough has been said on this topic, and it is clear that you are not going to change your stance on what you do, and I do not feel that anyone wants you to.  I simply hope that you realize that the name that you use to describe what it is that you do is important because the ramifications of your actions will not only be associated with you, but with what you profess to practice.

Offline Ryan Ford

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2005, 04:56:54 PM »
read my post again. there is a difference between never saying "this is parkour" and never saying "this is not parkour".

you guys said "this is parkour" and you were not doing parkour.

other people post stuff that may not be parkour and that is fine if they dont claim it to be.

most people just post videos that are an overall representation of their skills. that is why you have seen Belle do flips.

youre failure to realize this is the stem of all this wasted time spent arguing. i dont know what else to say to you guys. i dont see what is so hard to understand.

Offline Rafe

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2005, 08:32:31 PM »
NO ONE has commented on that fact that over 80% of the pics and vids here and at UFF and all the other BIG PARKOUR HUBS have "freestyle" in them. A lot of them more than our vids and such.
like corndoggs pics, the superst0ne, and ( do you really wnat to name them all. it would be easier if I named the few w/o freestyle.



Deft man you seriously need to read up a bit before you start spouting of the same arguments every one else has tried. Most peoples training videos and sampler are not pure parkour thats because its damn hard to capture pure parkour on tape, how many camera men would you need just to capture a single parkour run satisfactorially? Parkour videos are genereal samplers of the skills and training of individual traceurs allmost all of whom have skill's outside of parkour and train movements outside of parkour.

I am sure many traceurs do push ups as part of their training, nobody argues that their parkour, why cause nobody puts them in their video, why cause their allot less interesting to watch then flips or flag poles, the fact that flips and flagpoles and handsprings and handstands are more camera freindly does not make them parkour, it just means people are more likely to want to include them in their videos. 

I guess I must be no one.  ;)

Just because someone trains acrobatic's as well as parkour does not mean their freestyle. You have to let go of concept that parkour is an umbrella concept for everthing a person does in their training.
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I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline klaymen

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2005, 11:50:07 PM »
it's like this. think for a second about someone who has never heard of parkour. they don't even know the word. if you don't use the word at all, and people see a video of you flipping, wallspinning, etc. they will proabably just assume that it is some sort of urban gymnastics (which is what is, and that is perfectly fine to do). but when you say it is parkour, that is when you have a problem. most people when they see it, aren't going to go looking on the internet for an explination, they are going to see your video, and then remember parkour as "that stuff where you do flips off of railings and jump around". this is why we get a little perturbed. we don't want people thinking of parkour like that. there already is "street acro" or "free running". parkour was actually sprouted from street acro and buildering. that is what the yamakasi did. but that isn't parkour. parkour is more defined, it is resitricted to just those movements that will help you in an emergency situation. there aren't many videos of parkour, because it is boring to watch to most people. actually, watch the banlieue 13 clip. that is parkour, just what would help you in an emergency situation. no flips, no fluff, just moving somewhere as fast and efficiently as you can.

Offline Deft

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2005, 07:12:43 AM »
Disciple- I see your point about XMA. I am a martial artist and I see XMA as a off shoot of traditional martial arts. However since there are so manyls/groups/clans (or whatever you want to call them) of XMA that it is impossible to deny it exists as part of the martial arts community. The "traditional" martial artist may not appreciate it, but you can not walk into a XMA school and tell them they are not real. You can question its practicality but you can not say it's not a martial art.
  To keep up with the martial arts correlation. Have you ever heard the phrase "you fight like you train."  What that means is that your patterns in the gym (or street practise) is reflected in flow. Everyone here agrees that the majority of people here train "more than just parkour." Like in Klayman's last vid, or in corndogg's pic, or inStepOne's vid, or Dzokhar avatar and vids, Faelcind's vid, blackhat's palmspin and back hand springs, Kaos- change  of direction in flow and going back in the direction in which he came. (basically all the vids/pics on this site. So basically you all train the way we flow but yet you seam to be using the veil of the term "training" to do the fun stuff we do.

(serious question for whoever)
If someone can do a running front flip over a 7 set of stairs faster than he could run down them. Is that freestyle or just finding a faster more efficient way to move past the stairs while keeping flow?  It just happens to have "flair" or look cooler than running down stairs.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 07:19:25 AM by Deft »

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Offline klaymen

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2005, 07:58:36 AM »
everything doesn't have a name. if you must put a name to it, then yes, most of the videos are training or free running. read disciple's poost again. the part about presenting it to the public. it is not what you do that we don't like. it is that you presented it to the public as parkour. and for your question, flipping down the stairs would not be parkour, you could go down much more effieciently by just jumping/dropping down the steps. but let me ask you something. if you were being chased by a pack of dogs, would you flip down the steps?

Offline Deft

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2005, 08:22:09 AM »
As much as I don't want to be chased be a pack of dogs, I think it would be awesome to throw in a flip as part of my evasive tactics to get away from dogs or anything that would chase me.

Anyone who can clip with efficiency and confidence should be able to perform a running front as fast as a normal jump or drop. (In all actuality it might me 1/1000 os a second slower but not difference wouldnt be noticed be the naked eye.)

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Offline klaymen

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2005, 08:34:56 AM »
As much as I don't want to be chased be a pack of dogs, I think it would be awesome to throw in a flip as part of my evasive tactics to get away from dogs or anything that would chase me.

Anyone who can clip with efficiency and confidence should be able to perform a running front as fast as a normal jump or drop. (In all actuality it might me 1/1000 os a second slower but not difference wouldnt be noticed be the naked eye.)

well, obviously you are an idiot and there is no reasoning with you. i seriously doubt you would use a flip when being chased.

Offline Deft

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2005, 08:56:22 AM »
Oh,are we back to name calling.  (I appologized for my rudeness earlier and am responding to everyone in a polite manner) sorry you are lowering the level of conversation.

I did say that ONLY if I have confidence and efficiency in a move then I feel I can incorporate it whenever, even if being chased be dogs.

Anyone who practices a "extreme" sport craves a "rush" or  "feeling of freredom" or whatever you want to call it. (basically everyone should be familiar with the risks of the sport and they know this is not for the timid)
 If I can incorporate a part of my freestyle parkour into daily life (weither I am being chased or on my way to the liquor store, I feel like I am LIVING my art. If that makes me a idiot, well I guess I am guilty.


I would love to meet you in person klayman.

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Offline Brian Belida

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Re: Texas News Story
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2005, 09:07:54 AM »
Eureka! That's exactly what we've been talking about, you called it "freestyle parkour." That's all we ask, that you call what it is what it is, that you understand that parkour is parkour, and not freestyle parkour. And vice versa. As long as you understand that, then there's no problem.

And just a little vexation that I see a lot, it's not "Klayman," it's "Klaymen." It's from an old awesome adventure game called "The Neverhood."