Author Topic: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?  (Read 4708 times)

Offline bryan

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2011, 07:58:12 PM »
My personal gathered thoughts from being on this website forever. Let me just emphasize before you read this that I know this isn't everyone. Personally I'm against everything on this list and I'm sure there are some other people that are as well. But like I said, this is just what I've picked up as a personal opinion.

1. American Traceurs, ESPECIALLY some of the ones on here seem to place a high emphasis on ground level training with minimalist shoes. It seems to me that there are for more European and Asian traceurs pushing the boundaries of what is possible as compared to American ones.

2. American traceurs seem to want to categorize movements and make parkour a sort of "working system" if you can understand what I mean by that. European traceurs especially seem to be more about just going out, throwing crazy stuff and having fun. American's tend to want to make it systematic and that in turn, makes it fairly boring.

3. American traceurs tend to be regressive against the idea of competition and want parkour to stay grassroots and also try and separate parkour from freerunning and tricking. European traceurs tend to want to make freerunning, tricking and parkour the same thing and make it all one discipline. (NO ONE EVEN THINK ABOUT STARTING A PK/FR DEFINITION DEBATE).

Just my thoughts.

Go Europe.

i agree with you. and its not just parkour where other countries "bash"(i haven't personally seen) but in everything, if something is posted about america or has something to do with the american culture, there is always someone from a foreign country that is just waiting to bash.
It is the exact same way with Americans. there is always that american who is waiting to bash someone from a different country about their culture or personal beliefs.

its life, deal with it.
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Offline David Jones

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2011, 08:17:34 PM »
Doesn't even have to be specific to roofs, just in general. Whatever manages to push you mentally. It's all about mentality, bro.

Offline Micah.

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2011, 05:17:18 AM »
They called trolls.

Even if the Ilabacas and Armitages, Shieff, Doyle, etc. did spend time writing comments on Youtube, do you think it would consist of attacking others? Take your advice from people that matter. (Though I guess to take that advice, you'd have to decide that I matter? Lol.) The internet phenomenon has made people think they are more important and impactful (not a word) than they are. Find yourself a mentor or someone you respect and do your thing.


But yea... if Chuck Norris was Russian, it'd be the end of the world as we know it.
Now, I don't know if I should be offended by this or not. >>;

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Offline arpwer

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 10:11:57 AM »
Don't forget conditioning.  While European traceurs just condition through parkour for the most part and rarely dabble with weights, oly lifts, etc., American traceurs (again, for the most part) feel that weights are the best way to increase power and strength in parkour.  Also, the APEX ranking system (I can't find the link right now) for difficulty, conditioning, etc was completely ridiculed and thrown away by the 3run forums.  It was actually very entertaining to read :D

I just wanna say that the reason the 3run forum members didn't appreciate the system was because they saw it as a way to judge OTHERS and not as benchmarks for THEMSELVES. It was presented wrongly to the community from the first post. That's all.

Offline Shyam Subramanian

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 10:38:58 AM »
Aaah gotcha.  Sorry man, my mistake.  Shoulda relooked at that, it's been a while since I read it haha.
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Offline EddieWFR

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2011, 03:01:54 PM »
I can try and help as Im from England haha..

Really depends, Im not going to lie, a lot of people over here thing Team Tempist are SICK But they piss a lot of us off haha for various reasons.

Right, You get almost two sets of people in Free running in America, the people who are basically just "street stunt" throw lots of FLIPS, ONLY FLIP, FLIP EVERYWHERE, Look a KONG, Its now parkour.. >.>, Haha Nothing against these videos but its all about having a balance between the two, real free running is simpley Parkour and random out bursts of things you think are fun or cool, You do a run and just add things that you like to it like... maybe instead of being a top officient dog and konging that wall you flip it. Or down this drop ect.

Or theres the more, actually parkour but.. almost pointless parkour? Your not going anywhere but moving around the same wall over and over leave it.. then come back to it ect, dont get me wrong I love watching some of the flow and technique its sick! But not a whole video of the same stuff over and over and over.

Its hard to say, some of Europes the same tbh, I like a lot of the American Vids, And theres A lot of SICK American traceurs and Free runners out there! Love it.

Offline Gabe Arnold

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2011, 03:48:49 PM »
For an example of Europeans/whoever vs. America, read the comments on this video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcDRiClqk4k

It's the showreel for the Parkour training gym that I and two of my friends run in New Jersey. The top two rated comments are (1) Americans -.- XD (2) It's funny, this video made me able to see the American attitude in their training style.

And while I believe he is from the USA, the latest comment states "hmmm, i find it interesting that even though americans perform the moves correctly and still manage to overcome obstacles, there's still something that resides in many of their movements that it seems europeans train with inherently that american traceurs seem to lack. always thought that was interesting. just a thought."

Read through the other pages of comments and you'll see quite a few similar ones. (I'll leave out the other negative comments about us being n00bish, slow, and using too much weight training - that's for another time.)

Seems to me there's something going on, what it is I'm not quite sure...

Offline DaveS

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2011, 03:54:40 PM »
For the record, I don't think there are clear national differences in how people practice Parkour. If an idea exists anywhere then the internet exports it everywhere else now. The biggest difference in the Parkour community is simply in how much contact an individual has had with the original practice. A person's social upbringing has some effect on how they interpret it, but social structure doesn't follow national lines in the modern world.

However, Steve asked me to provide a UK perspective on training methods.

In my experience of the UK scene (based on being a part of it for longer than most) you find the same different approaches to training here as you do in the rest of the world. You have people that spend their time lifting weights in the name of Parkour, you have people that just go out and enjoy themselves by practicing whatever movements they feel like, you have people that only train in structured classes, you have people that only train on their own, you have people that go out and just mess about, you have people that create and stick to precise structured training routines, you have people that try and stick close to nature by training barefoot in natural situations, and any other approach you can think of besides.

Surrounding these different methods you can create a few broad categories if you try. There's the 'Parkour Generations' category, descended from the Yamakasi, which includes the physical conditioning bunch and the structured class obsessives. Then there's the UF/3run category who practice for media and sponsorships and showing off to each other (basically includes anyone that's too immature to think for more than 2 seconds about Parkour), descended from people who care about themselves too much to acknowledge anyone else. After that there are the independents (formerly Parkour.NET) descended from David Belle, who follow all kinds of systems (because David Belle didn't tell anyone how to practice) and who are only really defined as a group currently by being separate from both UF and PKGen.

The quick comic version of history is as follows.
The UK scene started out independent (as everywhere was back then). UF separated themselves by taking a slightly different approach (rhymes with vame-brabbing noney-zeeking rying zackstabbers), 3run ran away from UF and became the same thing only more teenage angsty, other companies created themselves and failed to be as good at the UF model, and then PkGen arrived and tried to pick up some pieces with their 'hey look, we're not UF (anymore)' line.

You can have fun classifying worldwide groups too even though it's essentially meaningless. I'd classify the bulk of the APK community as a cross between UF and PKGen in approach, but I wouldn't consider APK representative of the entire US. APA in Australia is firmly in the ex-Parkour.NET category, PKSG seems a bit UF, Austria seems UF and PK.NET, Germany all three, France undecided, Finland PkGen, Russia and Poland have their own crazy approach...

I think YouTube has it's own subset of humanity, largely based on the teenage 'TOO MUCH ANGST!!1! MUST INSULT OTHERS!!!' model.
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Offline Stevie Leifheit

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2011, 04:26:11 PM »
Thanks for those comments and perspectives Dave. There were a few of your views toward some of the organizations that are very...strongly stated.


Please everyone, the comments made by Dave (as I'm sure he will agree with me) are from his personal gatherings. They are not concrete answers, and are not the only views and perspectives of these organizations, don't take them as such. And one more thing...further discussion of the difference between organizations (arguing :P) as it does not pertain to this topic will be deleted.

Now that I got that Admin stuff out of the way...




 "hmmm, i find it interesting that even though americans perform the moves correctly and still manage to overcome obstacles, there's still something that resides in many of their movements that it seems europeans train with inherently that american traceurs seem to lack. always thought that was interesting. just a thought."


Gabe, what's your opinion on what "seems" to be missing? What do you think it is?
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Offline DaveS

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2011, 04:58:32 PM »
I didn't make any of it up, but hopefully I made it clear (after the second paragraph at least) that making generalizations has to be done with a certain degree of humor.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 05:27:13 PM by DaveS »
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Offline arpwer

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2011, 09:04:06 PM »
Aaah gotcha.  Sorry man, my mistake.  Shoulda relooked at that, it's been a while since I read it haha.

no problem  :)
I just see a lot of hate on the 3run forums over here and wanted to clear things up a little by little.

Offline Sam Zytka

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2011, 09:45:32 PM »
dave i completely agree with you and your statements about the communities at large, being an ex-parkour.net member myself i think that it is probably the smallest demographic shown here in america because the american scene was still relatively young when pk.net got shut down, as for the rest of the categories you mentioned i think that there are definitely some of each in america.

as for gabe's quote from his video, "hmmm, i find it interesting that even though americans perform the moves correctly and still manage to overcome obstacles, there's still something that resides in many of their movements that it seems europeans train with inherently that american traceurs seem to lack. always thought that was interesting. just a thought" i do actually agree with this to a certain extent.  I think one of the main differences is the overall ease and fluidity of the movement, i feel that as americans we do greatly lack this from a lot of our european counterparts and I think one of the main reasons why we lack this fluidity is the absence of places to train continuous movements.  The architecture in america compared to european architecture is so completely different that the style of movement is different.  American training spots are much more spaced out and their is rarely a place where you can do continuous parkour movements without great lengths of running in between.  Because of this I believe that many americans do overall lack a fluidity in their movement compared to alot of european traceurs.  At the same time I feel as if many european traceurs don't understand how different the parkour scenes are.  I can't find the exact quote now but i will paraphrase phil doyle when he said that, "training in america is hard because their are not many great spots and you get cleared off by security wherever you go."

So as for the different style of movements i think it is definitely true and i dont necessarily think it is a negative thing.  Parkour is about adapting and overcoming your obstacles and thats what both american and european traceurs do in their training.  One isn't better than the other and the sooner that the entire world parkour community sees this the better.  I think that the negative attitudes towards americans is generated because many do not understand the fundamental differences in the cultures, and than these groups that raise "teenage angst" perpetuate the idea that one community is superior to the other.  Overall the movement of a traceur is heavily dependent upon the environment in which they have been training and i think it would be a fair statement to say that if you removed a traceur and his training and put him in a completely different environment and he restarted his training from the beginning than his movement and development would be completely different from what it had been before.


as dave said making generalizations has to be done with a certain degree of humor so i hope everyone who read this takes it with a grain of salt or two because although i do feel as if my observations are correct, i do not think they are definite and apply to everyone

Offline NOS - from Parkour Mumbai

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2011, 10:41:13 PM »
Hahaha Stevie, but you can't say that the comic history version didn't crack you up. It did me.

And I agree completely with Sam Zytka above. I can relate to his post, because it's pretty much the same situation in my country.

Offline Stevie Leifheit

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2011, 05:01:42 AM »
Hahaha Stevie, but you can't say that the comic history version didn't crack you up. It did me.


It did crack me up a bit  :)

It's actually kinda sad I have to make a disclaimer. Stupid internet fighting :P
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:05:29 AM by Stevie Leifheit »
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Offline bryan

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2011, 09:09:20 PM »
For the record, I don't think there are clear national differences in how people practice Parkour. If an idea exists anywhere then the internet exports it everywhere else now. The biggest difference in the Parkour community is simply in how much contact an individual has had with the original practice. A person's social upbringing has some effect on how they interpret it, but social structure doesn't follow national lines in the modern world.

However, Steve asked me to provide a UK perspective on training methods.

In my experience of the UK scene (based on being a part of it for longer than most) you find the same different approaches to training here as you do in the rest of the world. You have people that spend their time lifting weights in the name of Parkour, you have people that just go out and enjoy themselves by practicing whatever movements they feel like, you have people that only train in structured classes, you have people that only train on their own, you have people that go out and just mess about, you have people that create and stick to precise structured training routines, you have people that try and stick close to nature by training barefoot in natural situations, and any other approach you can think of besides.

Surrounding these different methods you can create a few broad categories if you try. There's the 'Parkour Generations' category, descended from the Yamakasi, which includes the physical conditioning bunch and the structured class obsessives. Then there's the UF/3run category who practice for media and sponsorships and showing off to each other (basically includes anyone that's too immature to think for more than 2 seconds about Parkour), descended from people who care about themselves too much to acknowledge anyone else. After that there are the independents (formerly Parkour.NET) descended from David Belle, who follow all kinds of systems (because David Belle didn't tell anyone how to practice) and who are only really defined as a group currently by being separate from both UF and PKGen.

The quick comic version of history is as follows.
The UK scene started out independent (as everywhere was back then). UF separated themselves by taking a slightly different approach (rhymes with vame-brabbing noney-zeeking rying zackstabbers), 3run ran away from UF and became the same thing only more teenage angsty, other companies created themselves and failed to be as good at the UF model, and then PkGen arrived and tried to pick up some pieces with their 'hey look, we're not UF (anymore)' line.

You can have fun classifying worldwide groups too even though it's essentially meaningless. I'd classify the bulk of the APK community as a cross between UF and PKGen in approach, but I wouldn't consider APK representative of the entire US. APA in Australia is firmly in the ex-Parkour.NET category, PKSG seems a bit UF, Austria seems UF and PK.NET, Germany all three, France undecided, Finland PkGen, Russia and Poland have their own crazy approach...

I think YouTube has it's own subset of humanity, largely based on the teenage 'TOO MUCH ANGST!!1! MUST INSULT OTHERS!!!' model.



you, my friend, sound like the good old american politician. lol
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Offline Joe Brock

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 04:50:58 AM »
Very seldom, I actually laugh audibly while reading a post.  Dave S...you should be congratulated on your accomplishing this. :D
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 02:41:16 PM »
Dave S. - Great job with the brief history!!

I feel the points that have been made are basically what my opinion is too - the locations in USA are ironically "not as good" for parkour - which I know will draw some criticism "you can train anywhere" - people are always surprised when I say that LA and NY are not the best cities for Parkour - but think about it, 20 feet of sidewalk, 300 feet of glass and concrete. Smaller (and older) cities are better for parkour training (the kind we are talking about that differentiates the Europeans) because things are closer together, more was designed for walking instead of driving, etc. College campuses in the US are probably our best spots for "runs" and "continuous movement" because they were designed for pedestrian traffic, unlike most of the rest of the US which was either designed or adapted more for vehicle traffic.

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Offline hfksla

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 06:40:37 PM »
I think YouTube has it's own subset of humanity, largely based on the teenage 'TOO MUCH ANGST!!1! MUST INSULT OTHERS!!!' model.

YouTube is generally the worldwide showcase for dumbasses and showoffs
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Offline Cody Bolen

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2011, 12:51:06 PM »
I'd say the reason people from other places seem to be "better" is because the Europeans have have been training longer as a whole. Plus you'll notice every country has a few go to guys that put out crazy awesome stuff, but the majority of the vids that come out are from lesser experienced practitioners. Maybe is has something to do with all the Parks and Gyms that seem to be popping up in Europe. Maybe if we Americans were to stop bitching about semantics on here and just go train we'd put out more quality vids. There are great people everywhere and the not so great are also everywhere.

As for the American way of training, I haven't noticed, I've noticed most of APK-er's all kinda train a certain way, but most of the country is diverse in it's training style.

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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: U.S Vs. Rest of the world?
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2011, 01:08:21 PM »
There are no American or European traceurs.  There are only traceurs.