Author Topic: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article  (Read 29385 times)

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2010, 05:55:47 PM »
Holy crap, did Rafe just say he agreed with me?
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Offline David Jones

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2010, 06:10:29 PM »
Holy crap, did Rafe just say he agreed with me?

Yes, yes he did. And I do too.

Offline Tom Coppola

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2010, 06:22:19 PM »
First of all, Ican't speak for everyone, but just because I've been posting in the APK forum doesn't imply that I haven't been training.  Don't assume people aren't training because they choose to spend a portion of their free time reading and discussing ideas on a parkour forum.

Shae ftw. I actually decided about 3 iterations of this ago that when it came up I would go learn a skill I don't have yet, so instead of bitching about it I can say "while you were getting your junk in a knot about semantics I landed a webster 1 and 3  ;D"

This is a perfect example of the difference between parkour and freerunning training mentality.  You mentioned you wanted to learn a new trick.  You didn't say you were going to improve your striding ability, or try an arm jump that is particularly challenging, or attempt to find a quicker way to move through an environment  You didn't say you were going to try to get quicker climb ups or improve your vault exit distance.  You are interested in learning a new trick.

There is nothing wrong with training this way, in fact, I encourage it.  Its a healthy lifestyle and I support anyone who is interested in improving themselves in some way.  What I am saying is that this is DIFFERENT from parkour.

Once a basic level is reached in parkour, there really isn't very many new movements to learn.  There is a refining process to make the basic movements faster, stronger, and more controlled.  Occasionally you might come across a new skill that helps move past certain types of obstacles, but ultimately, the focus is on learning to be more proficient at getting from place to place. 

I'm not saying that people who practice parkour should not practice other forms of movement.  I think its only natural to want to explore other movement skills after being introduced to a discipline focused on movement, but the differences are so evident that it's baffling that people are still arguing Parkour and Freerunning are the same, rallying behind a horribly misleading "Its All Just Movement" banner.

If the "just movers" can't see the difference between this, where the same basic movements are applied to the changing environment, and this, where numerous skills are applied to a "limited" environment, then I'm done posting.
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Offline Joel PK

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2010, 06:32:29 PM »
Funny, I saw this thread was 3 pages *long* and was just gonna read the first few posts to see what it was about, yet here I am on the 3rd page. I wouldn't want this locked, this is all so intriguing and interesting :P

I would kind of find myself at a hybrid of points. Parkour id indeed translated to "route" (or at least parcours is), which I would think implies nothing more than finding a route from A to B, namely the quickest one. Though.... the quickest route perhaps would be a car? Or just going through the building and up the stairs? Or just running around the rail? Just saying that even a lot of parkour purists I have found putting up "parkour" videos of them doing kongs and dash vaults 2 feet away from the edge of a rail, that seems pointless doesn't it? Well the opposite could be applied. Say you have a wall about as high as you are and you are sprinting towards it. What do you do? I've seen people sideflip over things this high before insanely quickly! Way faster than any pop vault or possibly even a kong vault. But it's a flip! Oh no! Not parkour? Well, it is parkour. It's the quickest way. I think, as with many things, if you drive and drive at a word looking for the root, you will end up at something different then from what your going for! David Belle does MANY flips and such, but he is known for parkour. I have to admit that flips, almost always, are ADDED to parkour for flare. But so what? Learning flips increases body awareness incredibly! It is great exercise and could help give you better balance and agility, both useful for parkour. If I see someone throw a video on youtube called parkour and it's them flipping around in a field, no, that's not parkour. If I see someone sprint a mile and vault a few rails, not that's not freerunning. But if I see someone do a fast city run with maybe a couple flips (ONLY BECAUSE THEY LOOK COOL), yeah it's still parkour! But it's also freerunning! The two are different, but so closely related, and there's nothing wrong with incorporating both. I would encourage this, but also I don't discourage learning only one or the other.

In other words, parkour is point A to B quickest, freerunning is flipping and tricking, but a video of someone getting to point A to B quickly while doing some flips, that's both, not just one or the other.

(All just my opinion)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 06:56:18 PM by Olejay13467 »
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Offline FrostySTL

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2010, 06:39:22 PM »
Funny, I saw this thread was 3 pages wrong....

Typo? LOL

Maybe the problem is one of genre? "Martial Arts", while all being different in form and intent, have a common term called "Martial Arts". We have no such all encompassing term, and some people are trying to push the word "Parkour" into that role, which is ticking off the people who are trying to keep their intent behind "Parkour" constant?

The problem, is there is no suitable word that everyone can agree on, I'm guessing.
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Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2010, 06:52:34 PM »
Um...
But thats EXACTLY the argument I've made TIME AND TIME AND TIME again. The term Movement Arts is appropriate for an encompassing genre just as Martial Arts is for self defense. Karate, TKD, Kung Fu, Capoeira are all Martial Arts. L'add, Parkour, Freerun, MA Tricking, and MN are all Movement Arts. The parallels are so obvious it actually PAINS me to have to explain it.
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Offline Joel PK

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2010, 06:58:54 PM »
Typo? LOL

Ha yes, typo, thanks :P

Um...

I agree with andrew here. No sense in comparing to other situations. While sometimes analogies can clear things up and shed new light on a topic, every possible one has already been said. Apples and Oranges. I won't try to force my opinions on others. If someone wants to call them the same, they have the right, and vice versa, doesn't make it right though, doesn't make it wrong. I know what I believe, that's all I need.
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Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2010, 07:02:57 PM »
Yeah, not what I was saying at all, but you're from jackson so the fact that you've learned to use a computer at all astonishes me and I'll let it go. I'm saying there is a perfect analogy in place (or READY to be in place) that alleviates the pressure in the situation. He was saying he wishes we had something all encompassing like "Martial Arts" which I had already made a DIRECT comparison to earlier in the thread.

I think if anyone reads this thread and thinks I'm okay with the equivocation of Parkour and Freerunning then you need to retake 3rd grade reading comprehension. Or in the case of Jackson, 8th grade reading comprehension  :P
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 07:04:51 PM by Andrew Hull »
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Offline FrostySTL

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2010, 07:11:38 PM »
Yeah, not what I was saying at all, but you're from jackson so the fact that you've learned to use a computer at all astonishes me and I'll let it go. I'm saying there is a perfect analogy in place (or READY to be in place) that alleviates the pressure in the situation. He was saying he wishes we had something all encompassing like "Martial Arts" which I had already made a DIRECT comparison to earlier in the thread.

I think if anyone reads this thread and thinks I'm okay with the equivocation of Parkour and Freerunning then you need to retake 3rd grade reading comprehension. Or in the case of Jackson, 8th grade reading comprehension  :P

I'm hoping this is a school rivalry thing and both of you will take this in good humor?

Actually, I didn't say I wished for one, i was just pointing it out, havn't somehow missed that part of your post.

Sadly, "Movement Arts" doesn't flow off the tongue very well, and flow is important. Besides, being old, it also brings to mind "bowel movements". (When you get to be my age, you will understand)
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Offline Sparklefish

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2010, 07:12:11 PM »
I'm with Mark and Rafe and David here, for the most part.

There's a lot none of us will know about the hows and whys of the split.  Constantly referring to what "the founders" wrote or said is a form of the appeal to authority fallacy: it's persuasive, but it's not logical.  Things are the way they are, and the way they are the vast majority of people feel that freerunning and parkour are distinct.

I personally don't feel that parkour and freerunning are "different," or that it's beneficial to think of them that way.  So I don't.  In my personal conception, there is one disclipine, with a continuity and a spectrum to it.  For the most part I'm way more interested in the style of movement most people call "parkour," but I prefer the inclusivity of "freerunning."  

This likely will never be settled.  I acknowledge that I'm in the minority in how I personally conceive of all of this, and so I generally use the accepted nomenclature.  However, that doesn't mean I don't have the right to my well reasoned opinion or philosophy, and it definitely doesn't mean that I'm wrong or lack an understanding of parkour.

Most of us, much like the founders, have a different individual viewpoint on, relationship with, and understanding of parkour.  I think this discussion is far more useful when it's a back and forth:

"Hey, how do you think of things?"
"Well I see it like this..."
"Whoa, totally different than my viewpoint.  Here's how I see things..."

Generally the in-person discussions Rafe and I have had have been like this.  Though we see things differently, I value those conversations more than any others I've had about parkour.

We don't all have to agree about this in order to engage in a respectful and mutually beneficial conversation.

Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2010, 07:15:28 PM »
I'm hoping this is a school rivalry thing and both of you will take this in good humor?
Yeah I'm from Michigan and Jackson is like... basically Ohio to the rest of Michigan.
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Offline Joel PK

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2010, 07:19:10 PM »
Yeah, not what I was saying at all, but you're from jackson so the fact that you've learned to use a computer at all astonishes me and I'll let it go. I'm saying there is a perfect analogy in place (or READY to be in place) that alleviates the pressure in the situation. He was saying he wishes we had something all encompassing like "Martial Arts" which I had already made a DIRECT comparison to earlier in the thread.

I think if anyone reads this thread and thinks I'm okay with the equivocation of Parkour and Freerunning then you need to retake 3rd grade reading comprehension. Or in the case of Jackson, 8th grade reading comprehension  :P

Ha don't be a douche andrew. My reading level is actually college (being in college). I read like the first line right after reading the other pages and thought it was a different post. So my bad. Don't stereotype me for being in Jackson :P At least it's not Detroit XD
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Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2010, 07:19:59 PM »
HA! You got me back man, I'm from detroit. Good on ya though, we're cool.  :)
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Offline MThomasfreerun

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2010, 07:21:43 PM »
First of all, I can't speak for everyone, but just because I've been posting in the APK forum doesn't imply that I haven't been training.  Don't assume people aren't training because they choose to spend a portion of their free time reading and discussing ideas on a parkour forum.

This is a perfect example of the difference between parkour and freerunning training mentality.  You mentioned you wanted to learn a new trick.  You didn't say you were going to improve your striding ability, or try an arm jump that is particularly challenging, or attempt to find a quicker way to move through an environment  You didn't say you were going to try to get quicker climb ups or improve your vault exit distance.  You are interested in learning a new trick.

I'm interested in learning as much as possible. But "increasing stride length" has no endpoint. You arguably can always increase your stride length. I choose to learn a skill because once you learn it you have it.  And at the current frequency of this type of thread, one new skill is about all I can get in between them  :P

Also, I said "skill," not "trick" - I feel like the people who emphasize the non-acro areas of freerunning seem to refer to acro skills as "tricks," perhaps as a way to cheapen their value...this may not be what you were trying to do but I find it common and correlated...
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Offline Joel PK

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2010, 07:26:10 PM »
HA! You got me back man, I'm from detroit. Good on ya though, we're cool.  :)

I had to pull out the big guns ;) I also kind of meant that second half of the paragraph to be my own anyways :P Shoulda spaced it.

Also, I said "skill," not "trick" - I feel like the people who emphasize the non-acro areas of freerunning seem to refer to acro skills as "tricks," perhaps as a way to cheapen their value...this may not be what you were trying to do but I find it common and correlated...

I agree. While I think referring to a front flip as a trick COULD be correct... not the way I want it to be referred to. It's a skill. It's beneficial to me and a core to freerunning in itself.
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Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2010, 07:27:51 PM »
Wait so you can refer to whatever you want as parkour but we can't refer to things we want as tricks? Because its not how you want it referred to? It doesn't fit your definition? Anyone get the irony here?
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Offline MThomasfreerun

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2010, 07:29:30 PM »
Wait so you can refer to whatever you want as parkour but we can't refer to things we want as tricks? Because its not how you want it referred to? It doesn't fit your definition? Anyone get the irony here?

You can call it whatever you want. But if you're gonna quote me, quote accurately :-) My comment was more concerning the tone/connotation. And I trust that if I missed the mark with Coppola he will check me on it :-)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 07:33:36 PM by MThomasfreerun »
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Offline Joel PK

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2010, 07:32:54 PM »
I think andrew was aiming at me? If so, parkour vs freerunning, diff from tricks vs skills. The correlation is there, but they're two different topics. Somewhat ironic in essence, but not really.
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Offline Anthony Ruiz

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2010, 07:52:09 PM »
through my eyes. Tumbling not done in olympics or training for olympics is tricking. So flips = Tricking. tricking +parkour= Free Running. Basicly like adding gatorade mix to water. Water is your foundation and you slab some sticky sweets to enitise people.

parkour- is efficient movement
free running- is throwing some flips and unneeded movement
tricking- going outside and doing flips aka tricks.
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Offline Tom Coppola

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Re: Parkour Vs. Freerunning: Once and For All Article
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2010, 07:57:28 PM »
I'm interested in learning as much as possible. But "increasing stride length" has no endpoint. You arguably can always increase your stride length. I choose to learn a skill because once you learn it you have it.  And at the current frequency of this type of thread, one new skill is about all I can get in between them  :P

Also, I said "skill," not "trick" - I feel like the people who emphasize the non-acro areas of freerunning seem to refer to acro skills as "tricks," perhaps as a way to cheapen their value...this may not be what you were trying to do but I find it common and correlated...

If you're interested in learning as much as possible, then you should also work on dance, chess, martial arts, juggling, gymnastics, soccer, pole vaulting, calculus, micro expression reading,...

By working on striding I mean specifically training striding in different scenarios. Maybe you're good at doing it at ground level between lines on the pavement, so perhaps you should try it across walls or rails, at all the same level or at varying levels, or with varying distances between each stride.  Striding is a very basic concept that can be developed and utilized in various situations.  If you practice striding you can improve your ability to move from one place to another.  Learning a webster will not improve your ability to move from one place to another, therefore it is not a part of parkour.

I'm not trying to cheapen acrobatic skills by referring to them as tricks.  I just tend to associate many acrobatic skills with tricking, but since you brought it to my attention, I'll begin using "acrobatic skills" when talking about flips.
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