Author Topic: saturated fat question.  (Read 1365 times)

Offline Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!

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saturated fat question.
« on: September 28, 2010, 12:10:39 PM »
so basically i know saturated fats like animal fat, lard, butter, coconut oil, ect are really good (because i have heard people much smarter than me say so) but i can't find out exactly why.  does anyone have a short and sweet answer why saturated fat is good?  the reason i ask is because i want to convince my family to stop cooking with vegetable oil margarine and crap like that.
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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 12:51:56 PM »
All fats are good to a certain point (except for trans).  The ratio of fats is what's important.  So the issue arises in the average American diet being waaaay too full of saturated fats.. and the "health nuts" just going to the other extreme by demonizing saturated fats and not getting enough because all of a sudden, all we're doing is overloading on monounsaturateds.  And then the research coming back and saying, "Hey, it's not actually BAD for you" and it swings back the other way.

Eat your fats in balance with one another.  That's all there is to it.
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Offline Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 01:09:01 PM »
could you give me some examples of a balanced ratio?   the only fats i know about are saturated, mono, poly, omega 3s and 6s and trans
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 02:50:49 PM »
All fats are good to a certain point (except for trans).  The ratio of fats is what's important.  So the issue arises in the average American diet being waaaay too full of saturated fats.. and the "health nuts" just going to the other extreme by demonizing saturated fats and not getting enough because all of a sudden, all we're doing is overloading on monounsaturateds.  And then the research coming back and saying, "Hey, it's not actually BAD for you" and it swings back the other way.

Eat your fats in balance with one another.  That's all there is to it.

I am not quite of the camp that thinks saturated fats are bad for you.  In fact, I don't really think there is such a thing as excess on whole food, happy sources of saturated fats so long as the n6:n3 ratio is kept in good order.

Offline Rafe

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 03:25:12 PM »
All fats are good to a certain point (except for trans).  The ratio of fats is what's important.  So the issue arises in the average American diet being waaaay too full of saturated fats.. and the "health nuts" just going to the other extreme by demonizing saturated fats and not getting enough because all of a sudden, all we're doing is overloading on monounsaturateds.  And then the research coming back and saying, "Hey, it's not actually BAD for you" and it swings back the other way.

Eat your fats in balance with one another.  That's all there is to it.

Saying one should eat a balanced diet is the most inane of non arguments, the whole point is what is infact the optimal balance saying one should be balanced is just restating the question what is balanced as statement eat balanced. Is a balance of 33, 33, 33 saturated, mono, and polyunsaturated the perfect optimum. That would be the most balanced but there is not actual evidence this balance is more healthy then some other balance just as 33, 33, 33 carb, protein, fat is not better supported then some other random number.

There are reasons to favor saturated fats at least for certain purposes, they are more chemical stable and are more resistant to oxidation and rancidification which make fats toxic. One should never use high heat cooking with unsaturated fats because they will become rancid under high heat.

Another reason to favor saturated fats is that most most sources of unsaturated fats outside of olive oil are produced through heavy chemical processes which leave significant residues, corn oil and fish oil are both predominately unsaturated but corn oil is extracted through the use of chemical solvents while fish oil is not. This is significant reason to avoid corn oil which in fact has been shown to be quite toxic in rodent studies.

It comes down to eating real foods. Lard, Butter, Tallow, Cream, and virgin cold pressed Olive, palm and coconut oils are all real foods that can be easily attained without heavy chemical processing and have been used for years by traditional cultures who do not suffer our diseases of civilization. Eating a higher ratio of one of these sources or another may be healthier but eating any of these is far healthier then industrial solvent extracted seed oils or hydrogenated oils and there is no real evidence to conclude any of the natural food fat sources are healthier then another expect for the possible effect of the balance of n-3/n-6 oils.

So OP your argument to your family is this, margarine is extracted through the use of industrial solvents like hexane, and then has toxic industrial hydrogen to it, there is allways some residue of these toxins in the finished the produce, the increase in consumption of margarine has run exactly paralel to the rise in heart disease in this country studies have shown it is highly associated with heart disease while full fat dairy and other animal saturated fats have been used by cultures all over the world who do not have our problems with cardiovascular disease and infact the latest studies show full fat dairy is inversely correlated with Cardiovascular disease.
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Offline Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 09:04:54 PM »
thats what i keep hearing i have been told fat like animal fat, organic butter, coconut oil, and cold pressed EVOO should be a big portion of our diets. i keep hearing about great studies that have proved this, but i still do not understand the reason why saturated fat is good though. i mean on the cellular level.  my mom trusts me that it is good, but i can tell she is still hesitant to eat even good fats  i don't blame her i have been told all my life that if you eat fatty foods you will get fat and have high cholesterol  ::) that and the food pyramid is good...
"Be like water making its way through cracks.  Do not be assertive,  but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it." - Bruce Lee

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

Offline Rafe

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 09:13:08 PM »
Satured fat first of all no toxic substances in it, resistant to rancidification, packed with vitamins, metabolically neutral(does not raise insulin) and super super tasty, what more do you need to know?
I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 10:11:46 PM »
Chris:

This piece from Wikipedia may be worthwhile...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Cardiovascular_diseases

It explains things quickly...

Notice that all of the statements (supported by evidence) that there is no proof of negative effects associated with increased saturated fat intake.  Also, negative effects (and pro vegetarian) comments are wishy-washy:
"When vegetable sources of fat and protein are chosen, these diets may moderately reduce the risk of coronary heart disease."
"A prospective study of data from the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study positively correlated saturated fat intake with cancer of the small intestine"

Yes, to the untrained eye (and how the media swings it..) these seem like strong evidence that saturated fats are bad.  However, correlation does not imply causation and there is no causal link between cancer and increased saturated fat increase.  With that said, did you know you could correlate the amount of lemons imported into the US and car accident occurrences?  These two are not causal, but there is a correlation.

Saturated fats beneficial to the diet.  While it is true that the body can make saturated fats on its own, there is still no reason to assume that this means we should go without it.  Saturated fats are a key component of cell membranes - just like cholesterol is a key component of hormone synthesis.  There is not logical or convincing, supported reason to avoid these nutrients.

Sadly, what you come to realize as you look more into the field of medicine is that it is (1) based on bad science and hysteria and (2) about 30 years out of date.  This combination really sucks because not only is the data bad, but its also being replaced by new data that is good (or at least counters the old data enough where we should just throw it out) and the new data goes ignored.  Oh well.

Offline Steve Low

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Re: saturated fat question.
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 05:43:11 AM »
I wrote on this:
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/05/cardiovascular-disease-and-eating-right-the-facts/


any cursory look at the literature shows that in sufficient large sample sizes (>25,000 people) saturated fat shows no increased risk of CVD. For example,

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.29146v1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648


What are saturated fats used for? Lots of things... cell membranes (in everything), for energy, steroid hormones, etc.

It's waaaay better if you get the stuff from grassfed, but even the grain fed stuff is INFINITELY better than processed foods, foods with lots of sugars, and industrial made up fat substances like margarine. INFINITELY.

Anything with partially hydrogenated oils = potential for trans fat abuse, lots of omega 6, etc. = extremely highly inflammatory and CVD/stroke influencing
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 05:52:11 AM by Steven Low »
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