Author Topic: Practicallity of flips and all that crap  (Read 15630 times)

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2010, 09:25:59 AM »
Its really not. Just saying that doesn't make it so.  Don't get me started on the reality distortion field.

Prove it.

Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2010, 09:32:28 AM »
Im really not getting into a conceptual relativism argument here.
Rely on yourself. Rely on your body. Rely on your training, instincts, and heart. Everything else is a crutch.

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Offline Kendy

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2010, 09:32:39 AM »
.:Don't think about it. Just do it:.
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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #103 on: August 31, 2010, 09:36:24 AM »
Im really not getting into a conceptual relativism argument here.

Hurray to miss the point!

The point is that arguing all of this shit is stupid, because it is all subjective.  Talk is boring, doing is fun; go train.

I'm god I dont have to

Prove that you're god.

Offline Kendy

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #104 on: August 31, 2010, 09:38:15 AM »
Prove that you're god.

In about 30 seconds you'll feel your entire body start to tighten, but feel all light and tingly
.:Don't think about it. Just do it:.
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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #105 on: August 31, 2010, 09:39:23 AM »
In about 30 seconds you'll feel your entire body start to tighten, but feel all light and tingly

t.t

You win.

Offline Andy Keller

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #106 on: August 31, 2010, 09:39:55 AM »
We should either stay on topic, or let the thread die...
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Offline Luke MC

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #107 on: August 31, 2010, 09:43:00 AM »
The point is that arguing all of this shit is stupid, because it is all subjective.

I gained a few pockets of insight from the discourse so I don't consider it stupid. Your contention that "all of this is stupid" is likewise a subjective one.

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #108 on: August 31, 2010, 09:44:22 AM »
I gained a few pockets of insight from the discourse so I don't consider it stupid. Your contention that "all of this is stupid" is likewise a subjective one.

See, now you're thinking.

Offline MThomasfreerun

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #109 on: August 31, 2010, 09:44:49 AM »
if anyone here would do a flip in a true emergency you are seriously misunderstanding the core concept of whatever motion art you practice.

if you got into a fight would you try and do a backflip? then why would you bother doing a flip running from someone?

wasting energy doesnt get you anywhere. go ahead and argue these points, your only going to look stupid.


I've already given a solid example of when a front flip would be a good choice instead of other non-flipping actions - the barbed wire/razorwire fence. But please, go make me look stupid by trying to vault such an obstacle. Post pictures, too.

Quote
here this answers OP's question, a flip is not practical, end of discussion. if you want to argue philosophies start a new thread.

Steve, I generally really like your comments and attitude/philosophy, but for the same reason as I mentioned to max, I don't think this is the best answer to the OP question.

Quote
Its really not. Just saying that doesn't make it so.  Don't get me started on the reality distortion field.

Likewise, saying that it's not doesn't make it so either. I've given concrete examples of credible people who disagree with you. People who were instrumental in founding the discipline you now claim to define in your own terms. The very ESSENCE of subjectivism.
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Offline FreeStyleFox

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #110 on: August 31, 2010, 09:47:36 AM »
If you wanna flip flip.  If you don't wanna flip or your afraid to then either push your fear or dont flip.  Just don't argue about it.  Its their way not yours.  Just because its not your movement doesn't give you the right to say it shouldn't be theirs.  /end

Now if you wanna talk about how they can be used in a practical manner by all means go ahead just stop trolling other peoples posts people.
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Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2010, 09:52:18 AM »
Are we just pretending that we didn't have the yamakasi discussion?

And CHRIST people not one person has said 'dont flip' im just for calling it what it is.
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Offline Artisticflow87

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2010, 09:57:23 AM »
I'd also hate to see this. On the rare occasions that I train with other people, they tend not to share my philosophies or methods but this doesn't create hostility. I don't see why the point about this "divide" is getting brought up though. Nobody here is attacking the non-traceurs, unless you count "it seems that what you train isn't strictly parkour" as some kind of insult.

I don't see why this would necessarily be true, but it's an interesting point nonetheless. I'm not going to debate it here though. Nice post.

Im not insulted, my point of view is more from the sidelines because I tend to not care too much what others say. If I want to train strict parkour I will do so, or if I want to free run I will do so, because I believe you can become good in both without taking anything from either of them. These types of arguments are more so just expressing the understanding of the politics involved and proper labeling of activities, which never really comes to my mind at any point when I train, because training is about YOU and your own personal exploration with your abilities. Which is why I personally dont like to label myself a tricker, free runner or traceur, Im just me, but if people ask what Im doing I will properly answer them as Andrew stresses we should do, which is true, and I respect this type of effort to stay true to parkour for what it is...

Theres too many variables to completely generalize one discipline from the other, this is all opinionated but I personally believe that the body mechanics involved in all out gymnastics and tricking surpass a lot of the strict parkour mechanics in regards to athleticism and strength, which has practicality in overall body control even in a parkour situation that doesnt involve flipping..Obviously in a situation needing a fast escape no one is going to be flipping, I dont care how good you are at it.

I see free runners ( the real ones, not the dumb stunt guys) as people who either like to entertain or highly skilled people who just want new and ''more difficult'' challenges for themselves, even though they can be just as proficient in pure parkour if they wanted to...

And like I mentioned earlier, if you want to really be good at parkour, start with running track and marathons for awhile... Just because you can kong and stride a set of walls doesnt mean you can get away from someone who is faster and jumps higher than you.

You see, theres all kinds of disciplines that builds to your ability to do "parkour" try them all and see what you can really be.
 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 10:05:35 AM by Artisticflow87 »

Offline MThomasfreerun

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2010, 10:00:37 AM »
Are we just pretending that we didn't have the yamakasi discussion?


We did. You gave tempered response that somewhat insinuated the Yamakasi have a selfish interest in people's opinion (my reading, forgiveness if I misunderstood). My point is merely that they disagree with you, and neither of you are "wrong" thus it is - subjective.

Quote
And CHRIST people not one person has said 'dont flip' im just for calling it what it is.

I think it's more that your response seemed overly feiry and angry compared to the tone of the thread. But I know a thing or two about writing such things, so I'm not breaking balls.

This topic is getting out of hand though - I won't post any more responses that don't specifically discuss the "practicality of flips and all that crap."
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Offline FreeStyleFox

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #114 on: August 31, 2010, 10:00:58 AM »
@Hull Its not the youtubers or anybody else that matters.  Its the process.  If we can teach them the love, the heart, the respect, and the joy of the process and of the discipline it all leads down pretty much the same roads.  Not every one will listen.  Not every one will have the heart.  Not every one will care enough.  As parkour freerunning and l'add get more popular the more people we have to teach this love to.  Not every one can love something this way.  

No matter what you say or do people will always put labels to things that dont fit.  In 20 years we will still have people jumping off roof, doing flips and calling it parkour wile video taping it.  We can not change this.  What we can do is educate.  And what we should be doing is teaching the love, the heart, the respect, and the joy.  If you can teach them this they will train for life.
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Offline Tex__

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #115 on: August 31, 2010, 10:14:34 AM »
@Hull Its not the youtubers or anybody else that matters.  Its the process.  If we can teach them the love, the heart, the respect, and the joy of the process and of the discipline it all leads down pretty much the same roads.  Not every one will listen.  Not every one will have the heart.  Not every one will care enough.  As parkour freerunning and l'add get more popular the more people we have to teach this love to.  Not every one can love something this way.  

No matter what you say or do people will always put labels to things that dont fit.  In 20 years we will still have people jumping off roof, doing flips and calling it parkour wile video taping it.  We can not change this.  What we can do is educate.  And what we should be doing is teaching the love, the heart, the respect, and the joy.  If you can teach them this they will train for life.

this sums up how i feel in a way i myself could not possibly put in words. (i guess this is why fox is a mod)
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Offline Luke MC

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #116 on: August 31, 2010, 10:15:45 AM »
Im not insulted, my point of view is more from the sidelines because I tend to not care too much what others say. If I want to train strict parkour I will do so, or if I want to free run I will do so, because I believe you can become good in both without taking anything from either of them. These types of arguments are more so just expressing the understanding of the politics involved and proper labeling of activities, which never really comes to my mind at any point when I train, because training is about YOU and your own personal exploration with your abilities. Which is why I personally dont like to label myself a tricker, free runner or traceur, Im just me, but if people ask what Im doing I will properly answer them as Andrew stresses we should do, which is true, and I respect this type of effort to stay true to parkour for what it is...

Theres too many variables to completely generalize one discipline from the other, this is all opinionated but I personally believe that the body mechanics involved in all out gymnastics and tricking surpass a lot of the strict parkour mechanics in regards to athleticism and strength, which has practicality in overall body control even in a parkour situation that doesnt involve flipping..Obviously in a situation needing a fast escape no one is going to be flipping, I dont care how good you are at it.

I see free runners ( the real ones, not the dumb stunt guys) as people who either like to entertain or highly skilled people who just want new and ''more difficult'' challenges for themselves, even though they can be just as proficient in pure parkour if they wanted to...

And like I mentioned earlier, if you want to really be good at parkour, start with running track and marathons for awhile... Just because you can kong and stride a set of walls doesnt mean you can get away from someone who is faster and jumps higher than you.

You see, theres all kinds of disciplines that builds to your ability to do "parkour" try them all and see what you can really be.
 

Another good post. I agree with most of what you say. The only point I'd like to pick out is the one about gymnastics and trickers. Not because I disagree, but because I think I could add a little perspective to it.

High level gymnasts are physically superior to traceurs in terms of their incredible functional strength and skills, no doubt about that- they have to be. The thing to remember though is the cost: re-constructive surgery. Neither discipline is inferior though. Gymnasts perform incredible feats and obliterate their joints, it's a choice of theirs. Traceurs aim for a steady, lasting life (etre et durer) and as such limit their capacity for expression and movement. None of these outlooks is more correct than the other, it's just a matter of preference. I hope that by reading this, you see that I'm not trying to compare arts to find which is "better" and I'm not telling people what to train. All I'm interested in is exploring how a traceur should prioritise their training to align with the goals of parkour if "parkour" is what they strive to be good at. I'm not trying to be unreasonable.

Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #117 on: August 31, 2010, 10:16:06 AM »
Okay, I’m sorry that I come across fiery on this subject, as it’s a matter that is hitting close to home ATM. We have a group in Orlando that claim to do and teach “Parkour” but are the worst kind of irresponsible, disrespectful, and dangerous stunt heads. They have (over the course of a year of trying) REFUSED to change, adapt, or grow and are doing considerable damage to our local community and credibility. The part that hurts the worst is they INSIST on calling what they do Parkour despite every indication to the contrary. So yes, I am ALL ABOUT education. This just happens to be an open wound as it stands right now.
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Offline FreeStyleFox

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #118 on: August 31, 2010, 10:18:43 AM »
@Hull best way to respond though this is though doing it the right way and not really fighting them but leading by example.  I mean you didn't have a joke with the ADAPT cert traveling an hour and half trying to steal your students.  And he is a joke.  I can go into detail later.  If you like but not on a public forum.
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Offline aarontp

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Re: Practicallity of flips and all that crap
« Reply #119 on: August 31, 2010, 10:19:48 AM »
Can I intervene? This hasn't become an informational "I ask you answer" post, this has become an argument, and it's annoying. I don't really care anymore, I don't think I'm going to ask questions like that anymore though.
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