Author Topic: Political Philosophy (*gasp)  (Read 1514 times)

Offline Alec Furtado

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Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« on: August 08, 2010, 09:51:28 PM »
Before people become scared that politics may enter this forum, read carefully because political ideas are not meant for this thread. However, if any mod decides it's pushing it (think hard!), obviously feel free to just toss it.

While this is located in socialize, I mean this to be a serious philosophical discussion. Anyone who mentions or even hints at a political orientation, no matter where they themselves sit, will be slapped. You must recognize how it is irrelevant here.


Specifically, I want to discuss the phrase, "I don't get into politics." No matter what the reason for it being brought up in the first place is, my immediate reaction is, "Oh sorry, do you not live in this country?"

Living in a governed polis and not caring about politics in a way can be as dangerous as jumping off a cliff and not caring about gravity. Whether you acknowledge it or not, that outside force will possibly take you to a place you won't like. In most cases, you won't be lucky enough to find a parachute somehow falling right there next to you.

I used to stay away from all issues as much as possible, though I've become to think that's extremely negligent, no matter how the political arena appears at that time (i.e. a pretty field of flowers or the apocalypse). Though I've also used it a lot simply when I did not know about something to hide my ignorance. I'm thinking it would have been better to be honest and then take time to do the research. Of course, there are different "alert levels" where you'd pay attention in different amounts, but I think a great number of people couldn't care less no matter what (or is that just pretending not to care like I used to?). However, it is important to mention that I'm in my first years of college where that's most likely not the only priority that is out-of-whack.

Thoughts?

... I fear it may be to difficult to stay out of dangerous territory here but... try. When in doubt, leave it out? I'm having second thoughts about clicking "Post" but I feel this is a worthwhile topic... :-\. I'm trying to address this just as we would address something like whether roof jumping/training is acceptable... maybe it will work... we'll see. Just carefully think out your post before replying.
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Offline Andy Keller

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2010, 10:12:46 PM »
I'll keep an eye on this one. 8)
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Offline Kyle Rudolph

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2010, 10:53:43 PM »
Honestly, I have my own views and I try and stay up on most issues but the reason I don't love to talk about them all the time is that it tends to draw lines between friends and if someone doesn't agree with you, they probably won't ever and it just gets tiring. Same reason Richard Dawkins stopped debating with Creationists. You just stop trying to debate with others after so long.
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Offline DevintheNinja

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 01:50:26 AM »
I like this. A lot of people "look" at the news rather than "pay attention" to it, if you get what I mean. People now are to comfortable they feel that if they don't know about it it will not hurt them. But they are the first people to complain when shit hits the fan ::shrugs:: to each their own
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Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 08:22:30 AM »
I'll keep an eye on this one. 8)
Thanks. :-*

Honestly, I have my own views and I try and stay up on most issues but the reason I don't love to talk about them all the time is that it tends to draw lines between friends[...]
I know exactly what you're talking about. A recent thought of mine though is that you should actually tell people that you are well read on the subject but don't want to get into it with them... anything to dispel the idea that you yourself might be politically apathetic or you support that trend. I dunno... you might not be able to set a good example without going into argument. People wouldn't be too satisfied with, "Well I know what I'm talking about." and leaving it there... lol


Question: what is the impression you all who are viewing this thread have in regard to the involvement of your peers? (also include who your peers are: highschool, college, etc.) People probably wouldn't be going into it as much in the workplace but give your impression if you have one.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 08:29:42 AM by Alec Furtado »
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Offline Kyle Rudolph

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 05:18:10 PM »
Thanks. :-*
I know exactly what you're talking about. A recent thought of mine though is that you should actually tell people that you are well read on the subject but don't want to get into it with them... anything to dispel the idea that you yourself might be politically apathetic or you support that trend. I dunno... you might not be able to set a good example without going into argument. People wouldn't be too satisfied with, "Well I know what I'm talking about." and leaving it there... lol


Question: what is the impression you all who are viewing this thread have in regard to the involvement of your peers? (also include who your peers are: highschool, college, etc.) People probably wouldn't be going into it as much in the workplace but give your impression if you have one.

My peers kinda bother me. It's mainly because of the location in which I live. Everyone here except for people like me who are out of state have been raised in a certain way that has shaped them all to believe one thing without questioning any other ideas at all. If you want to form your views, you need to look all all sides of the issue, not just the ones that are preached to you by certain news stations....
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Offline Tex__

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 05:29:22 PM »
after having a political conversation with my peers i was disgusted (im a senior in highschool) i was never wealthy but i recently moved to a school district full of rich kids, you know the never worked a day in my life kids. and there points of view on politics is ignorant and selfish. and i don't mean even by political part (not getting into which one im on) but even people in the same political "party" as me left me like, "what the f#ck are you talking about?". personally i don't get into politics too much in discussion for two reasons.

reason one: im a poor kid from Texas, so most people just say "oh well your a ignorant white trash redneck.... and your racist" (i love when people call me racist because im one of the least racist people you will meet, though some how because im from Texas im racist)

reason two: im not big on arguing. i usually end up pissed off and shit just gets physical because my "peers" do not respect others peoples beliefs, and instead of debating just argue.

I tend not to read up on whats going on simply because im lazy, yeah that's a bad excuse, but i really just don't have time for it at this point in time. i do occasionally read up and the discussions i do have i know what im talking about. but i just am not a politician, nor do i like them, any of them.
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Offline Sparklefish

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2010, 05:57:48 PM »
reason two: im not big on arguing. i usually end up pissed off and shit just gets physical because my "peers" do not respect others peoples beliefs, and instead of debating just argue.

Things don't just "get" physical.  Someone makes a choice to become violent, then takes action.

I hope in the situations you're talking about it's not you initiating the violence.

Disagreeing with someone, being insulted or taking different positions in an argument are insufficient causes for violence.  I did my time as a thug and I'm done with it.  I don't like hitting people or scaring them.  Unless I'm forced to defend myself or someone else, I can't picture anything worth risking my life.

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Offline PkShinobi

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 10:29:30 PM »
   Most political conversations I've had were a waste of my time, except for the ones I've had with good friends and family. Honestly I avoid political as well as religious conversations when I can, mainly because most of my peers are either ignorant, selfish, close-minded,biased, and arrogant sons of b^#(hes.
(Or they're a combination of all those things.) [High school + some family]
   The second reason why I don't engage in political conversation to much is because more then 50% of the time I want to start a argument or argue back (but I don't, because its a waste of time and lead to nowhere, but me getting annoyed, and the other person getting ignored until they decide to relax or stfu)
   The third reason... BULLSHIT, as simple as that. All the drama, and irrelevant what not some how manage to get included, like "you don't know what your talking about because your only 16, 17, 18, etc" or "I'm right because more people agree with me then you" OR "LA LA LA LA I can't hear you! :P"

"but even people in the same political "party" as me left me like, "what the f#ck are you talking about?""

I agree with Tex.  ;D
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Offline Tex__

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 10:45:32 PM »
Things don't just "get" physical.  Someone makes a choice to become violent, then takes action.

I hope in the situations you're talking about it's not you initiating the violence.

Disagreeing with someone, being insulted or taking different positions in an argument are insufficient causes for violence.  I did my time as a thug and I'm done with it.  I don't like hitting people or scaring them.  Unless I'm forced to defend myself or someone else, I can't picture anything worth risking my life.

Peace is a choice.
i don't start the violence but when people act like dicks i am quick to temper. i have never had a problem meeting fire with fire so when people start getting disrespectful, i will not be showing them respect. somehow they can be assholes but when someone does the same thing they feel the need to pick a fight? shit i don't know i just avoid it. i don't feel the need to deal with some want to be bad-ass's asinine behavior. id prefer a life with out drama if its possible.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 10:50:00 PM by Tex aka Steve »
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Offline Tex__

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 11:00:57 PM »
"I'm right because more people agree with me then you"

this pisses me off to no end. a majority of people listen to miley cirus, the jonas brothers, and justin beaver. dosen't mean they have any talent.
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Offline Harry Smith

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 08:04:23 AM »
I personally don't get into politics because of corruption.  Everything seems to be run by whoever has the most money.(also Andy I give you permission to delete any of my posts if i get out of line. I will still try to be on my best behavior. ;D)

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 08:45:10 AM »
Well, when I was in High School, I was half-hearted about all the political debate. I didn't know much about anything, so I knew to tread lightly when the situation arose. Though, now that I can vote, I really try to understand all of the different stances and ideas floating around. The relationship between the citizens and the government is a social contract. We give up some power to a group of people so that it can maintain social order. Though, if they abuse that power, it's our responsibility to take it away.

As for my peers, it is a sad state of affairs. Like someone mentioned above, no one really ventures outside of what they've been taught to believe and if you try to show them another side of things, they completely reject it.

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: Political Philosophy (*gasp)
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 11:34:44 AM »
I personally don't get into politics because of corruption.
Yes! But this is exactly why you need to stand up and be an example. It's why we all need to do (no matter what your opinion of the political arena is, now or in the future!). Don't think of it as "getting into politics," think of it as being a proper human being. Keep every single person accountable for their own actions (and yes, politicians are mortal human beings, as much as it seems some might think they are demigods). Yes, it takes work, but you have to ask yourself who you are and what you stand for. As traceurs, we tend to pride ourselves in our careful mental discipline as well as our physical discipline... do you hold to that 100% or do you pick and choose? (though I'm obviously not perfect either, but I try to vigilant about that).


That said, let's calm down the talk here. Even if you are furious, be calm, as stupid as it may seem. It'll help us all think better and hopefully keep us from crossing the line here...

Basically I think the trick is to eliminate all double-standards or "well that's just the way it works now" type of thought. Unfortunately some claim to do this while doing just about the opposite.


When things appear deeply messed up in anything (speaking generally now), it's obvious why we wouldn't want anything to do with it due to how muddy it is. The problem is that cannot make things better and it can make things worse and it will be that way until someone steps up and takes care of it. Don't fall into that trap.



I am glad to see more people actually do care and pay attention. Just be sure to make it clear that that's the case because it's a bad misconception that we all just don't care and try to hide from it in our own "little" lives.

My recommendations with discussing things face-to-face where the other person may have a large and blinding bias:
If you do get into it with somebody, ask about their position and the facts to support it and then shutup. When it appears that they are finished, ask politely if that's the summation of their argument and get any clarification if necessary. In most cases, that will satisfy the average person's desire to spout off their beliefs (have you noticed how often you see opposing TV commentators simultaneously yelling their positions?) and get them to think you are working with them, which you should be. Then, based on the result of their argument (it might be that you are in fact on the same side), discuss the conclusions you've come to based on the evidence you have seen (let's be honest, it's hard to have every bit of evidence).

In the end, (let me know if anybody disagrees) remember that the average person is not "corrupt" (the average person is not in the position to benefit from being "corrupt") and wishes the best for the majority. In addition, everyone has seen different amounts of evidence and through different viewpoints. My recommendation is to combine your perspective with theirs. I mean, we all seem to agree that it's hard to spend the time to get all of the info on something. If you get the other person to start giving their position, they will most likely do it in the most efficient way possible (see what I did there? ;)). Use that and match their data up with the other data you've gathered (should make researching faster too if you have a number of ideas to work from instead of a blank slate).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 11:39:35 AM by Alec Furtado »
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