Author Topic: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas  (Read 7672 times)

Offline Mark Toorock

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Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« on: October 03, 2006, 08:15:47 AM »
I was watching the Discovery Channel's new "World Atlas" series ... the show on people form China, which I have been eagerly awaiting. Int he beginning they do this montage of "people from all over the world" and there is a brief (1/2 second maybe) clip of Seb doing a tic-tac, I'd imagine clipped somewhere out of JB. It was cool for 2 reasons: 1, it's Seb :)  2, Parkour is being shown as a "world interest" item if it makes it as a clip in the beginning of thast show.

Thoughts? Is Parkour a "world interest" yet? If not when will it be?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 08:18:54 AM by M2 »
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Seb Sighting
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2006, 08:18:34 AM »
Doh! Just saw that some others have already posted about thism, and that there will actually be a bit about him in one of the episodes. That's awesome!! I'll leave my thread too since it asks a question and tries to start a conversation about it.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2006, 10:49:58 AM »
When will it be on ;D!!!!!!!!! I wanted to watch a couple episodes of that anyway because i love the discovery channel (mostly Mythbusters)

I personaly think it is a blooming world intrest. This is mainly because it has spread over the world and more and more people are staring to train in Parkour.

Offline colin jensen

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2006, 11:38:52 AM »
i dont believe that it is a "world interest" yet. however if the parkour community keeps expanding the way it is, then it shouldnt be long before the "world interest" level will be reached. im not sure what will happen then. maybe (hopefully not) parkour or freerunning on X-games. maybe it will just mean that meeting traceurs will be easier then. just my thoughts on the subject.
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Offline CyanideSoda

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2006, 12:15:03 PM »
Eh i think parkour is a World intrest in a way. Just because it is so intresting. I do not however think it's something that all that many people know about. I hope it NEVER becomes associated with the X-games. And i hope it never even becomes competetive. But yeah, i can't wait until the french episode.


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Offline The Boom Collective

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2006, 04:45:02 PM »
Eh i think parkour is a World intrest in a way. Just because it is so intresting. I do not however think it's something that all that many people know about. I hope it NEVER becomes associated with the X-games. And i hope it never even becomes competetive. But yeah, i can't wait until the french episode.

100% Agreed.
When parkour is in every continent in the world (which it is, except for the obvious ones that it cant be on you smart a$$e$!  :P ), I believe it has reached the world interest level. And the moment someone turns this into a sport it will be commercialized. God forbid it ever reach that level. That will just invite in all the meat head, showoff, stuckup jerks that have a point to prove and do it not because they love it, but because they are so competitive they feel like they must beat people down in order to get any sort of joy out of it.

Offline Zeus

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2006, 04:56:01 PM »
Quote
Posted by: The Boom Collective 
Quote from: CyanideSoda on Today at 01:15:03 PM
Eh i think parkour is a World intrest in a way. Just because it is so intresting. I do not however think it's something that all that many people know about. I hope it NEVER becomes associated with the X-games. And i hope it never even becomes competetive. But yeah, i can't wait until the french episode.


100% Agreed.
When parkour is in every continent in the world (which it is, except for the obvious ones that it cant be on you smart a$$e$!   ), I believe it has reached the world interest level. And the moment someone turns this into a sport it will be commercialized. God forbid it ever reach that level. That will just invite in all the meat head, showoff, stuckup jerks that have a point to prove and do it not because they love it, but because they are so competitive they feel like they must beat people down in order to get any sort of joy out of it. 

I really think that this is a good point so here it goes...my call to all traceurs. NEVER COMPETE

Anyway back on this forums topic when will this be on??

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2006, 05:24:41 PM »
Uhm .. always compete. the root of the word actually doesn't mean "against others" it means with them.

[Late Latin competere, to strive together, from Latin, to coincide, be suitable  : com-, com- + petere, to seek; see pet- in Indo-European Roots.]

Competition is part of the key to getting better at parkour. Parkour was started from what Raymond Belle learned in Viet Nam at war, is war not competition? the methode naturale became popular when Hebert taught it to the French military, was it then not used for competition?

Is becoming more fit not a challenge, not a competition with yourself?

I'm sorry, I know that the parkour community at large is very openly anti-competition, but it is hypocritical at best.

Do you not go to jams and try to do things alongside others? just because nobody keeps (or cares about) the score doesn't mean that it's not competition.

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Offline CyanideSoda

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2006, 05:37:46 PM »
I'm sorry if i sound mean, And please realize this is NOT for the sake of arguement.  But i disagree with that statement. I spent my last jam (as with every other jam) bettering myself by watching how others do things.  I do not compete with other people on any level. I strive only to better myself. I don't try and do what everyone else does, i find ways to do the same thing that are best for me. The only person it's ok to compete with is YOU.


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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2006, 05:39:00 PM »
You saw this coming, Mark.

The root of words, first of all, don't mean anything other than to a linguist.  Words change.  Meanings change.  Everyone knows this.  Language evolves and what a word means one day does not affect what it means another.  To compete is to work toward pushing yourself ahead of others in some way...  It is a game to weigh who is superior, at least in one singular instance of time at one event.

Competition with the self is not what we're talking about.  Everyone should strive to become better than what they once were.  This does not mean we should be competing with anyone else.

Raymond Belle did what he did in Vietnam to save his own life, not to destroy others.  Hebertism was a means of learning to better the self and become the best "self" that was possible...  The setting did not matter.  Hebertism applied to more than just military training.

Competition is at its root a mode of propelling the self at the expense of others.  Even friendly competition is the same, in some way.  Parkour does not need competition.  Traceurs do not WANT competition.

I will say this, though:  competition is not the end of the world.  Having a game of tag or whatnot.. friendly competition isn't going to spell the doom of Parkour.  I just disagree very strongly with Mark here about "always compete."
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2006, 05:42:44 PM »
No flaming bcause I see what you saying ;D I think i was a little to extreme when i said never compete.

I say now compete for the right reasons such as what m2 said (betterment of yourself and others) but stay away from the competition that boom was talking about (competing to show off or making yourself feel better) A balance

I realized when i read that how it sounded and realized I was being a hypocrite because me and my friends will play games like tag, jailbreak, follow the leader, or a parkour version of SKATE or HORSE to train

Also the show is on Sundays at 9 but i dont know which one will feature seb

Offline CyanideSoda

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 05:44:29 PM »
The first four episodes probally won't feature parkour.


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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2006, 06:00:09 PM »
Animus ... some great points in there. I'm glad at least someone here is thinking !!!

here's where I agree with you ... root words, that was a cheapshot on my part, but my point is to look at all sides, to loko at competition with the self as well, because compete doesn't always means "against others" ... even in modern language it's used with the self very frequently.

Now, where I disagree ... saying that Hebertism doesn't matter becuse of the setting is bull. It was used by the military, not to save lives, to kill people, to become more effective efficient killers. Countries do not go to war to save lives, Raymond Belle was not only there to run from the enemy.

you then say competition at it's root .. what root? I gave the root words :) Anyway, you say that it is at the expense of others, yet then you go on to talk about the friendly comptetition that inevitably happens at 90% of gatherings, so in your own post you've used both sides of the argument ( a sign of true intelligence). I do not believe that competition means you push the other side down, I believe it can be a means of bringing everyone up.

Lastly, would you say that competition, friendly, self, or otherwise is human nature?

Oh, and cyanide - "And please realize this is NOT for the sake of arguement.  But i disagree with that statement" ... youare saynig it for the sake of arguing, a form of competition where people defend their views. I think what you really mean is that you're not against me personally, you're simply presenting an opposing view, which really is 1/2 of what communication is all about, if we all agreed on everything and saw things the same way our language would need about 1/10 of the words it has :)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 06:03:46 PM by M2 »
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Offline The Manilla Gorilla

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2006, 06:19:52 PM »
edited out, it didnt add anything to the convo
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 06:44:14 PM by The Manilla Gorilla »

Offline CyanideSoda

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2006, 06:40:37 PM »
Ok now i'm confused. Sorry if i worded things wrong. I think everyone here realizes by now that i have problems with that. My main point is i do not want to see parkour with official competitions. You know the kind where judges rule them. And i also don't think it's a good idea to base what you do off of other people, for the sake of competition. Anyways. Yeah, Nothing personal. I love you all.  :-*


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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2006, 06:47:34 PM »
First order of business...  I did not say Hebertism doesn't matter.  I said that the purpose of Hebertism was different from what you said.  Hebertism was designed to better the self in all fields of athleticism and physical training.  It was NOT designed specifically for military training; it was adopted into military curriculum.  Therefore, the intent of Hebertism was never to train more aggressive fighters, even if that was the final product.  You're right, though.  Countries do not GO to war to save lives.  But they do ENTER war to save lives.  It has been a long, LONG time since the French military has acted as an aggressor.  The Indochina War that Belle was a part of was a backlash from nineteenth century imperialism.  France was DEFENDING what was thought to be theirs... Indochina, or Vietnam in particular, was fighting for liberty.  In both cases, it was for the preservation of life as they saw it.  The intent of war is not to kill in almost all cases.  Raymond Belle did not enter into the Indochina War willingly, either, so you cannot say that he had gone to war to fight.  Belle was thrown into the war because he was born there.  He had to fight.  He did not choose to.

Yes, he killed people (at least, probably).  Yes, he fought people.  But the purpose behind Parkour and the way it was developed was so that he could save his own life and save the lives of others.  His military training served the purpose of killing.  Look at Parkour.  Is there ANY aggressive movement in it?  Is there any movement that could even be possibly seen as passively aggressive in the way that Tai'Chi or Aikido are passively aggressive?  Parkour, and Hebertism, were NOT designed to hurt people.

EDIT:  I'm going to cut in right here and say that I really should not be saying so much about Parkour nor Hebertism because NONE of us here have a right to make claims as to what it is and what it is not...  But these are my interpretations as I have come to understand them and I have provided a logical basis for those interpretations, so for the sake of debate, it should be valid enough.

Now, back onto competitiveness...  "Competition... can be a means of bringing everyone up."  That's an argument that is used to defend laissez-faire capitalism a lot and it is logically sound.  However, it does not seem liek the way that the world SHOULD be working.  Do we honestly want the only way for people to get better and to rise above themselves to be a mentality of becoming better than the next?  Even so, you bring everyone up by pushing other people down... and the people who get pushed down rise up and try to push you down... and eventually, everyone is higher than they were originally at...  This does not negate the fact that there was pushing down to begin with.  There are better means to elevation.  There are more communal means to elevation.

Is competition a part of human nature?  I dislike the idea of human nature in general.  I think it's a cop-out argument that people use when they're too lazy to analyze something or when they're too weak to admit that they're weak.  "Oh, it's just human nature."  Those conventions of "human nature" have always been defied time and time again.  Since time immemorial, we've been able to rise against it.  So does human nature even exist?  Or is it a lazy man's way out?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 06:53:04 PM by Animus Light »
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Offline The Manilla Gorilla

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2006, 07:09:50 PM »
it seems, to me at least, that you cant stricly ever debate competion in parkour, no matter how hard you try it will eventually lead to the larger connection, competion in life.

Animus, you points, although solid are largley based on ideals. Everywar was to preseve on freedom or another. The arayans wanted to preserve their liberty, so did the U.S in pretty much everywar. As well as both side of the nation in the civil war.

But i dont want to debate you on ideals, i would LOVE to have you AIM screename, since you seem to be bubbling with aweosme information, and if we continue you this talk in this thread .

Although i would like to point out how AWESOME this thread is, everyone has expressed thier opinion in a thoughful manner, if APK had more of these threads it would be a top notch forum...

Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2006, 07:18:32 PM »
again, good and well thought out points.

My understanding (I could have misread) was that you said THE SETTING of Hebertism didn't matter, which isn't true. take the same argument you used against the root of a word vs usage, if Hebertism at it's root was only for self improvement, but then was used to train more effective fighters, then it was used for competitive purposes. I'm not saying it was designed for comptetition (other than self-improvement), just that it was used that way.

I agree, many times "human nature" is used as a cop-out, I don't consider myself a cop-out type of person, I am not using it as a statement of convenience, I litterally mean that it is "natural behavior" to compete. Every intelligent form of life competes, it could be said to be part of the natural selection process, which I do belive in, survival of the fittest, competition for life and the improvement of species on a grand scale. Young tiger cubs compete so that they can all become better hunters, so that when they compete against food or enemies they are better prepared. Is it not the same with parkour and boys playing tag?

As for competitiveness, you have stuck to your idea that being better than someone can only be achieved by pushing them down, I don't believe this is true. We are having an argument here, a civilized debate, a form of competition, I am learning from you, hopefully I say something of value which you and others can learn from as well, so while we both make points which have validity, are we pushing each other down, or trying to pull each other up? Is a debate not competitive?

I also agree that it is not ours to define parkour, that's done. It does, in my opinion change over time as David develops and his ideas develop, I do not think he has the same outlook that he did as a teen, it would be very unusual if he did. Anyway, my original point was not that Parkour itself is competitive, but that it is based on competitive ideas, even running to save someone's life, the idea is to be faster. Faster than what? Yourself of yesterday, self competition, self-improvement. I do still believe that people are inherently competitive, and that this competitive spirit is applied to almost everything that people do. Even parkour politics are competitive. (sad but true). Look how many parkour websites claim to be "official" "world's biggest and best" ... if there is a best, there is a worst, and that is competition.

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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 07:33:28 PM »
By engaging in debate, we present points and counter-points...  The counter-points are designed to push another point down.  So yes, we must push each other down in order to compete in this way, even if we both end up elevated as a result.

Perhaps competition is within nature and perhaps competition is within humanity by default...  I still see it as something that should be done away with.  Humility is a very good thing; it is a very enlightening thing.  And when we are all equals, I think we will all be able to more easily move forward rather than move forward through competition - a system which ultimately brings everyone upward, yet does so slowly and person by person.  And yes, Parkour politics are competitive.  That much is obvious.  But who in their right mind actually enjoys the politics of Parkour?  Parkour philosophy is a different story...  People try to teach others.  Parkour politics?  People argue for the sake of arguing.  There's no purpose to the politics; people jsut trying to be better than the other.. saying, "I KNOW what Parkour is.. and that is not Parkour."  It's meaningless rhetoric; competition, yes, but also competition without purpose.

We seem to have arrived at an impass, though.
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Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Seb Sighting - Discovery Atlas
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2006, 08:46:02 PM »
In my personal interactions with life I find that people are competitive at different levels or just not competitive at all.  For some people it seems to push them to be better then they were before.  If I have a race for time and a race against somebody else and do the exact same course I would think that I would do better if I were going against somebody else.  Competition can also be the exact opposite of this point though in many cases.  Sometimes I believe that competition can bring out the very worst in people in certain situations.  Overall I think that friendly competition in parkour may help some people more then others but I would hate to see it judged and scored because it goes against what I understand parkour to be.