Author Topic: Careers in Parkour?  (Read 14518 times)

Offline Jordan Strybos

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2010, 10:39:50 PM »
Dave, I feel like you are ignoring what and where parkour came from. In its origins, I seriously doubt that the first traceurs were thinking about having some form of physical work that teaches you how to develop your mind in a proper manner.  As far as I know, it started from the streets of France, with David, Chau, Yann, Stephane, Williams and Seb and company acting like the kids that they truly were. If you have some sort of credible account that disproves this, by all means, show me, because I am relatively uneducated on this aspect of it, and I'd always love to learn some more...

there is a difference between the skills that are used by Parkour (speed, strength, endurance, efficiency, control or anything involved in the ability to move past obstacles in your environment) and the skill of Parkour itself (knowing how to use these to help you develop).

I disagree with this statement. The skill of parkour isn't knowing how to use these skills, it's actually using them. The skill that you gain from training parkour for years and years is the actual use of the increased speed, strength, endurance, etc.

I believe that if people are training to improve their skills mentioned above for the objective of enhancing their parkour training, by means of any workout or exercise, they are training parkour.

I think I know what you mean when you're talking about training and doing, but the comparison between the words 'training' and 'doing' is a bad one, because 'doing' is such a broad word. A better comparison is 'developing' and 'using'. When you're 'developing' a skill you improve it, and when you're 'using' a skill it lets you do something else. Parkour is developing your ability to move through your environment, not just using your ability to move through your environment.

You are making parkour out to be a skill, like an acquired skill that you can reach through lots of practice and thought. Parkour is not a skill. Yes, there are skills associated with it, and you develop new skills from it, but parkour is an art and a way of training and movement. I think that your last statement is incorrect; training parkour is developing your ability to move through your environment, and using parkour is using the skills that you develop through training to help you in certain situations. I will say that 99% of the time, we are all training parkour, and are very rarely every actually doing parkour. Sure, development is what we focus on, but that does not mean that development IS parkour.

You are very confident in your points and very matter-of-fact in what you say. I think that, in addition to what Devin said, you aren't really over-thinking things, because I agree with what you say, thinking is useful and it is always healthy and good to analyze situations, but at the same time, you need to keep your mind open to everyone else's points and arguments. I'm only saying this because to me, you came across as slightly arrogant when you said things like this:

I think it's important to make the distinction that Parkour is the 'developing' stage, and 'using' is something else.

...and actually, this discussion is about very basic understanding that really, all adult practitioners need to understand in order to get the most out of Parkour.

It just sounds like you are a veteran who has experienced all of these revelations and epiphanies that others can only experience once they have been through all that you have. I will acknowledge that most of your points are very valid, that you back them up well, and you are very well-spoken, but at the same time, don't make yourself out to be an all-knowing parkour guru. It's very hard to act this way in this discipline, because there is always someone who will be better than you at some aspect of it.

Offline whiteybeans

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2010, 07:26:44 PM »
I never cease to be amazed, I was thought parkour was movements that one uses to efficiently navigate an environment, the as I advanced I understood that my body and mind are an environment for the idea of self. So I use training, and movement with hopes to master my internal environment, and safely negotiate the physical obstacles.

well put
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 07:37:52 PM by whiteybeans »
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2010, 05:52:38 PM »
In the morning when I train to become stronger I use Parkour.
While I'm out training I practice Parkour.
In the afternoon when I experiment with different training methods to discover which works best I train Parkour.
At night when I sit down and try and understand the discipline better I improve my Parkour.
At the weekend when I coach others I use skills I've developed to teach Parkour.
In the holidays when I put together information to help practitioners and coaches I improve Parkour.


Patrick:
Yes, I am indeed saying that you can catpass, tictac and gate vault without practicing Parkour. To me that's as obvious as the fact that you can run without being a track athlete and hit someone without being a martial artist.

"Be strong to be useful" is not the definition of Parkour, I agree. However, that phrase does express a sentiment that exists in Parkour, which is why it gets repeated here in the Parkour community so often. It's important to recognize that for me the 'spirit' of Parkour is simply a part of the core definition of Parkour.


Joel:
To use the word 'Parkour' correctly I think you're better off not thinking of Parkour as the end result, for the reasons I explained earlier.
You do Parkour in order to do other things. Whether you choose to say "I train Parkour" or "I practice Parkour" or "I use Parkour" or "I do Parkour" or any other word, it doesn't really matter. However you phrase it, Parkour should clearly be the method you use to achieve other things.


Jordan:
While David, Sebastien and some of the rest have since become experienced and knowledgeable practitioners, they too started out as beginners. They started without any understanding the same as the rest of us, and have had to develop that understanding over time.
I think it's important to listen closely to the accounts of people like David Belle and Sebastien Foucan in their interviews. They say that Parkour developed from their childhood games, not that Parkour was their childhood games. Although they were moving around their environment as kids, thinking of it as a discipline came later (as it does with us all). For some of them it was not much later, but it was still later.

For me, Parkour definitely IS a skill that you can learn and improve with time. I know that there are people who do not know how to use movement to help themselves develop (most non-practitioners). I know that there are some people who know the basic principles (most practitioners) and I know that there are some people who understand those principles in detail (some experienced Parkour coaches). None of these people acquired this knowledge by magic! This is something we can all improve!

It's always hard to judge people's tone from short written messages, but I think we should all try not to assume the worst about other people. :)
You're right, I am generally confident in a lot of what I say.
I write in a confident tone confidently partly because there are a lot of people confidently presenting inaccurate or misleading information. I think accurate information is under-represented in the Parkour community in general, and I want people to be aware that there are people that strongly disagree with some of the bigger misconceptions that are widely accepted.
I also do it partly because I am fairly confident what I say is correct. I've been practicing long enough that I have experienced these things and tested them myself, and furthermore my life as a Parkour practitioner, coach and teacher of coaches involves testing them on a daily basis. I don't know, maybe this sounds arrogant too, but it really does seem as though the basic description of training is basic understanding when you compare it to other aspects like adapting training to individuals and especially motivation.
Mostly I do it because the principles of Parkour work in all areas of life. You improve in response to being challenged, so I challenge other people and try and encourage them to challenge me. :)
~ Dave
NorthernParkour and the British Parkour Coaching Association

Offline Jordan Strybos

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2010, 06:31:45 PM »
Dave, at this point, I think that it is fair to agree to disagree. I understand what you are saying about parkour being a skill that you can learn and refine over time, and I agree with some of what you are saying, but at the same time I feel like you take it a few steps further than I do when it comes to the mental and philosophical portion of parkour. I am actually very interested in the philosophy and thought processes that go along with the discipline, but I just feel like you naturally are more inclined to incorporate those aspects into everything else, something that is apparent in most of your posts. And I'm not saying this is wrong, nor do I disagree with it, I'm merely saying that you are different than I am in that way. It's a simple difference in the way we choose to look at our training styles and our techniques.

I do like what you said at the end though, things can certainly be misread in online messages, and I hope you know that I don't personally think that you are cocky or anything like that, I wasn't trying to attack you personally, just pointing out that some of your statements sounded a bit over-confident. No hard feelings :)

Offline /shane/

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2010, 07:41:19 PM »
Aren't we supposed to be discussing parkour related careers? Not that I don't enjoy the constant pk philosphy discussions, it just seems like every thread ends up in a huge almost unrelated "discussion" about personal beliefs.
Back on topic: Yeah you can definitely make a career out of your pk skills, two people I know have successfully become stuntmen/personal trainers etc. But you'll have to be pretty good to keep the calls coming and have a steady income. I'd definitely suggest you also practice freerunning and martial arts if you're at all interested in the stuntman idea.
A state of mind when you are performing a physical movement that is neither too simple or too complex. Your focus rules out all other mental processes, your mind has no time for words, worries, or distractions. There is only timing, spatial awareness, and the feeling of satisfaction as you land