Author Topic: Careers in Parkour?  (Read 14675 times)

Offline tibo

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 02:08:24 AM »
i think the 3 most important ones would be
fire fighter
cop
military
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Offline Tex__

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 07:57:16 AM »
ha yeah now that would be kickass, seriously insanely useful in the current front
>>useful in the current front
>>current front


you mean Afghanistan? i think you should do some research before you make comments like this. wearing over 80 pounds of equipment in the desert would not be a great place to do parkour. talk to some people who have been there, its not like you see in the video games. it is a desert.
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Offline hfksla

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 08:06:05 AM »
>>useful in the current front
>>current front


you mean Afghanistan? i think you should do some research before you make comments like this. wearing over 80 pounds of equipment in the desert would not be a great place to do parkour. talk to some people who have been there, its not like you see in the video games. it is a desert.
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2010, 09:18:14 AM »
Actually Tex - training people in the military has a huge effect  - of course nobody is going to be doing a 12' running cat in all that gear - but imagine that those guys all knew and trained in the basics of landing, rolling, absorbing shock, and basic vaults, as well as cadence and basic wall-run / tic-tac technique. Now, put on (60 is more typical) pounds of gear, and remember that your reach is decreased by a full 5" by your chest plate and magazines (try doing a pullup 6" away from the bar!!)

But, the concepts, training, and conditioning all helps them move better than they would have without it.

At Primal Fitness, our Military / Police / Spec Ops training is called UMAT- Urban Mobility and Agility Training
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Offline Hazim Salem

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2010, 11:26:26 AM »
At Primal Fitness, our Military / Police / Spec Ops training is called UMAT- Urban Mobility and Agility Training

Just wow! Never thought a speed vault in full gear could be possible. :O

Offline DaveS

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 09:03:51 AM »
Mark, you've fallen into the old trap of thinking that it's the movement that makes Parkour. Our understanding has improved, we know that Parkour is more than just jumping on walls.

Parkour is a training discipline. Performing isn't training. Performing isn't practicing Parkour. It's not the movement that makes Parkour, it's the movement combined with the intention (to learn/develop).

Stunt performers, media performers, entertainment performers, these jobs involve movement but they don't involve Parkour. Those people are demonstrating ability (the ability to move), not demonstrating a learning process.

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Offline Cody Goodman

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2010, 09:34:08 AM »
Mark, you've fallen into the old trap of thinking that it's the movement that makes Parkour. Our understanding has improved, we know that Parkour is more than just jumping on walls.

Parkour is a training discipline. Performing isn't training. Performing isn't practicing Parkour. It's not the movement that makes Parkour, it's the movement combined with the intention (to learn/develop).

Stunt performers, media performers, entertainment performers, these jobs involve movement but they don't involve Parkour. Those people are demonstrating ability (the ability to move), not demonstrating a learning process.

The only common job that involves the learning process is teaching it to others. It is very rare that someone will pay you to learn.

I can agree with this, although the OP wasn't considering this scope when he asked the question.
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Offline Macgyver 0.

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2010, 06:12:12 PM »
I'm going into computer animation and game design. Heck, the creativity and problem solving learned in Parkour will help me anywhere.

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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 10:09:02 PM »
Quote
Parkour is a training discipline.

Dave, while I can agree with your statement, I once again feel your views are very one-sided, and life is simply not one-sided.

Are you then saying that if I go out, run, climb, vault, jump, just for the sake of moving through my environment and purposely tackling obstacles, that I am NOT doing parkour? That I actually have to be training, or moreso teaching someone else to do it in order to be doing parkour?




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Offline Lorenzo

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2010, 05:33:11 AM »
I never cease to be amazed, I was thought parkour was movements that one uses to efficiently navigate an environment, the as I advanced I understood that my body and mind are an environment for the idea of self. So I use training, and movement with hopes to master my internal environment, and safely negotiate the physical obstacles.
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Offline Joel PK

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2010, 06:16:46 AM »
Dave, while I can agree with your statement, I once again feel your views are very one-sided, and life is simply not one-sided.

Are you then saying that if I go out, run, climb, vault, jump, just for the sake of moving through my environment and purposely tackling obstacles, that I am NOT doing parkour? That I actually have to be training, or moreso teaching someone else to do it in order to be doing parkour?

Yeah, this is what I was thinking when I read Dave's post. There is a definate difference between training Parkour and performing/practicing the art of Parkour. I mean... to add on to what Mark said, would you look at someone running down the sidewalk vaulting and wallrunning and say, "Looks like he's not training, he's not doing Parkour at all". Well why can't it be said that, no matter what, if you are doing Parkour, you are training? Every time you do a vault, you improve slightly. Every time you wall run or pop vault, you're improving. I think I would pull some of the ideas behind what you said and relate them to whether or not you're a true Traceur, but not whether or not you're doing Parkour. A true Traceur doesn't come out of the basement once a year and jumps a fence, a true Traceur is practicing and conditioning every week, hopefully every day. But on that same note, if that jump over a fence was a lazy vault or kong or something, it's still Parkour.
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2010, 01:58:55 PM »
Mark, what I'm saying is that it's impossible to move through your environment just for the sake of moving through your environment. Everything has a purpose, even if you aren't consciously aware of it, and the purpose affects the result (your mind and body are not separate).

@trophiend, Parkour is the moving and the training. You get better in lots of other ways by practicing moving.

Joel, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but to me the phrase 'training Parkour' is a tautology. Parkour Is training, or more accurately, Parkour is a type of training. 'Practicing Parkour' means training. As I said above, it's the movement that is the training. If you're going out of your way to try challenging movements then you're practicing Parkour. You're not just moving, you moving with the intention of improving, in some way.
When you're in a real life situation you don't try and find challenges, you try and make it as easy for yourself as possible because it's the success that is important in that situation not the challenge. When you do this you're not practicing Parkour, because the intention, and therefore the effect, is different.
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM »
Quote
Mark, what I'm saying is that it's impossible to move through your environment just for the sake of moving through your environment.

I disagree and further state that you can't disagree with the fact that I disagree. If I want to move through my environment just to do so, who are you to tell me I can't?

If I want to go run to the corner, I will, if I want to go vault a fence, I will.

I don't have to be trying to get better, I don't have to be educating myself or anyone else, and I don't need any reason other than "I want to", and I think it is amazingly ridiculous that you could feel otherwise!
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2010, 03:55:22 PM »
Mark, "I want to" is not a motivation. It's a statement that you are motivated.

Everything we do, we do it because we want to do it. The important question is, why do we want to do it?

There is always an answer to that question, even if we can't always answer it ourselves.

You don't need to answer that question, but then you don't need to do anything. Everything is your choice.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 03:57:05 PM by DaveS »
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2010, 06:12:15 PM »
that is all true, but doesn't make your other statements true.
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Offline Patrick Witbrod

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2010, 07:00:45 PM »
Mark, what I'm saying is that it's impossible to move through your environment just for the sake of moving through your environment. Everything has a purpose, even if you aren't consciously aware of it, and the purpose affects the result (your mind and body are not separate).

@trophiend, Parkour is the moving and the training. You get better in lots of other ways by practicing moving.

Joel, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but to me the phrase 'training Parkour' is a tautology. Parkour Is training, or more accurately, Parkour is a type of training. 'Practicing Parkour' means training. As I said above, it's the movement that is the training. If you're going out of your way to try challenging movements then you're practicing Parkour. You're not just moving, you moving with the intention of improving, in some way.
When you're in a real life situation you don't try and find challenges, you try and make it as easy for yourself as possible because it's the success that is important in that situation not the challenge. When you do this you're not practicing Parkour, because the intention, and therefore the effect, is different.

   However the military personnel that train at primal have a purpose. To be able to move better in their gear. They do this by training in parkour.  It's true that in the real world they would look for the easiest way to do something and they might use their parkour training. By your definition they wouldn't be training parkour because they are not trying to get better but I think they would be "doing" parkour.  Training and doing are two separate things. You do have to train to do. So while parkour isn't just "a set of movements" and you have to train these movement to be able to do them. Saying that parkour is only parkour when you are training and teaching isn't true. Training parkour and doing parkour are different things  you do need one to have the other and when they are together they are both parkour. 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 07:03:06 PM by Patrick Witbrod »

Offline DevintheNinja

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2010, 02:12:07 AM »
   However the military personnel that train at primal have a purpose. To be able to move better in their gear. They do this by training in parkour.  It's true that in the real world they would look for the easiest way to do something and they might use their parkour training. By your definition they wouldn't be training parkour because they are not trying to get better but I think they would be "doing" parkour.  Training and doing are two separate things. You do have to train to do. So while parkour isn't just "a set of movements" and you have to train these movement to be able to do them. Saying that parkour is only parkour when you are training and teaching isn't true. Training parkour and doing parkour are different things  you do need one to have the other and when they are together they are both parkour. 

Mark, "I want to" is not a motivation. It's a statement that you are motivated.

Everything we do, we do it because we want to do it. The important question is, why do we want to do it?

There is always an answer to that question, even if we can't always answer it ourselves.

You don't need to answer that question, but then you don't need to do anything. Everything is your choice.

Dave you ever think that you just maybe over think things sometimes? i respect your knowledge on things but sometimes its just a little to OVER thought out
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2010, 03:06:23 AM »
Patrick, there is a difference between the skills that are used by Parkour (speed, strength, endurance, efficiency, control or anything involved in the ability to move past obstacles in your environment) and the skill of Parkour itself (knowing how to use these to help you develop).

It's confusing that people tend to associate the first category with Parkour when Parkour is really the second category, but that's just another misunderstanding that comes from seeing lots of videos of people moving freely that are labeled Parkour. All we can do is try and make the difference as clear as possible to people now.

I think I know what you mean when you're talking about training and doing, but the comparison between the words 'training' and 'doing' is a bad one, because 'doing' is such a broad word. A better comparison is 'developing' and 'using'. When you're 'developing' a skill you improve it, and when you're 'using' a skill it lets you do something else. Parkour is developing your ability to move through your environment, not just using your ability to move through your environment.
Obviously you have to use your ability to develop it, but then you have to use it in a particular way. That 'way' is Parkour, the core of which is trying to move past the obstacles in your environment, the difficult parts of movement.

Military personnel can develop their practical abilities during peacetime using Parkour, because they have no need to use their abilities then. They then go off to use their abilities in conflicts and since they are using not developing they aren't practicing Parkour at this time. During their time in a conflict their skills might continue to improve, but as a result of real situations as opposed to training situations and therefore not through Parkour.

I think it's important to make the distinction that Parkour is the 'developing' stage, and 'using' is something else. Otherwise Parkour becomes another impractical sport at high levels, instead of the useful tool that it is. Basic movement skills have practical application almost every day, but the only use of more advanced movement is in developing your abilities to use elsewhere. The spirit of Parkour is one of practicality and usefulness. Development is what we focus on.


Mark, I'm fairly sure my statements support each other. If you think otherwise you're going to have to explain yourself.

Devin, there is no such thing as over thinking. That's like saying you can improve too much. Thinking is useful. It helps us. Sure, you need physical action as well, to form a balance, but you need as much of both as you can get.

...and actually, this discussion is about very basic understanding that really, all adult practitioners need to understand in order to get the most out of Parkour.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 03:13:09 AM by DaveS »
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Offline Patrick Witbrod

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2010, 05:49:25 AM »


I think it's important to make the distinction that Parkour is the 'developing' stage, and 'using' is something else. Otherwise Parkour becomes another impractical sport at high levels, instead of the useful tool that it is. Basic movement skills have practical application almost every day, but the only use of more advanced movement is in developing your abilities to use elsewhere. The spirit of Parkour is one of practicality and usefulness. Development is what we focus on.


So what you are saying is that when someone is being chased by a person trying to mug them and they ran, konged a fence, gate faulted a tall fence, tic taced to a fire ladder, strided across the small gap between roofs ran down that fire escape jumped off at the lowest level and rolled then ran to a crowded area they were not "using" (your word) parkour to get away. They were in fact just using a set of movement that have nothing to do with actual parkour by themselves except that you use when you train parkour to better yourself.

 By that logic I could take the opposite approach and when the guy goes to grab me downward block, back-fist to the face, step through ridge hand to the side of the neck, and take out his leg put him on his back and walk away. I would be using my parkour training in this case martial arts training (which still focuses on developing your ability) to take care of the situation.

 I don't think that's what you mean to say. But it is what it sounds like.

 I do think that you are confusing one of the philosophies that is part of parkour with what parkour is. One of the principles of parkour is to be strong to be useful. We borrowed that form Herbertism or methode naturelle as it is more widely known. That principle itself is not parkour. Parkour simply uses that mindset when training the movements that are more a part of parkour then this philosophy is.

 All this being said I do appreciate the fact that you make such well written posts even if I may not agree. It makes me think and thats more then most of my collage classes are doing right now.

Offline Joel PK

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Re: Careers in Parkour?
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2010, 06:06:41 AM »
Patrick, there is a difference between the skills that are used by Parkour (speed, strength, endurance, efficiency, control or anything involved in the ability to move past obstacles in your environment) and the skill of Parkour itself (knowing how to use these to help you develop).

It's confusing that people tend to associate the first category with Parkour when Parkour is really the second category, but that's just another misunderstanding that comes from seeing lots of videos of people moving freely that are labeled Parkour. All we can do is try and make the difference as clear as possible to people now.

I think I know what you mean when you're talking about training and doing, but the comparison between the words 'training' and 'doing' is a bad one, because 'doing' is such a broad word. A better comparison is 'developing' and 'using'. When you're 'developing' a skill you improve it, and when you're 'using' a skill it lets you do something else. Parkour is developing your ability to move through your environment, not just using your ability to move through your environment.
Obviously you have to use your ability to develop it, but then you have to use it in a particular way. That 'way' is Parkour, the core of which is trying to move past the obstacles in your environment, the difficult parts of movement.

Military personnel can develop their practical abilities during peacetime using Parkour, because they have no need to use their abilities then. They then go off to use their abilities in conflicts and since they are using not developing they aren't practicing Parkour at this time. During their time in a conflict their skills might continue to improve, but as a result of real situations as opposed to training situations and therefore not through Parkour.

I think it's important to make the distinction that Parkour is the 'developing' stage, and 'using' is something else. Otherwise Parkour becomes another impractical sport at high levels, instead of the useful tool that it is. Basic movement skills have practical application almost every day, but the only use of more advanced movement is in developing your abilities to use elsewhere. The spirit of Parkour is one of practicality and usefulness. Development is what we focus on.


Mark, I'm fairly sure my statements support each other. If you think otherwise you're going to have to explain yourself.

Devin, there is no such thing as over thinking. That's like saying you can improve too much. Thinking is useful. It helps us. Sure, you need physical action as well, to form a balance, but you need as much of both as you can get.

...and actually, this discussion is about very basic understanding that really, all adult practitioners need to understand in order to get the most out of Parkour.

I get what you're saying, and I do agree with it, but I think maybe those aren't the best words... How is it possible to "train" Parkour if you're not "using" Parkour to do so? What are you using then? That just doesn't make sense to me. I think maybe you could say that you "train" Parkour in order to "perform" Parkour? (Keep in mind the word "perform" does not always imply for show or such)
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