Author Topic: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins  (Read 14110 times)

Offline Gabe Arnold

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PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« on: January 14, 2010, 04:56:36 PM »
ADAPT UK Begins! January 18-21

Next week will see the first ADAPT (Art du Deplacement and Parkour Teaching) Level 1 Qualification Course being offered by the UK's National Governing Body - Parkour UK. 1st4Sports has now come on board as the awarding body for the qualification, with the UK version being valid across Europe. The 4-day course is for the Level 1 Assistant Instructor qualification, a necessary step on the way to the Level 2 Full Instructor qualification courses soon to follow. The UK ADAPT qualification is part of the ADAPT scheme created by the Yamakasi founders at Majestic Force and the Parkour Generations collective, including Chau Belle, Stephane Vigroux, Seb Goudot, Yann Hnautra, Thomas Couetdic, Forrest, Williams Belle, Dan Edwardes, Laurent Piemontesi and Johann Vigroux. This historic course marks the official launch of the recognised coaching qualification in Europe, and we will have a full report of how it went next week. For more information on ADAPT, click here.

> Parkour UK proudly confirms Sebastien Foucan will be attending the L1 1st4Sport Certificate in Coaching Parkour/Frerunning (ADAPT) next week.

> Parkour UK will launch open courses in the Level 1 Certificate in Coaching Parkour/Freerunning (ADAPT) from Feb 2010 e: info@parkouruk.org

> City of Westminster will host the first ever 1st4Sport Certificate in Coaching Parkour/Frerunning (ADAPT) next week 18th - 21st January 2010

> Parkour UK formally announces the 1st4Sport Certificate in Coaching Parkour/Freerunning (ADAPT) will launch on the 18th January 2010

http://www.parkourgenerations.com/news.php
http://www.parkouruk.org/#News

Offline Andy Keller

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 05:28:31 PM »
Topics merged.
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Offline Matthew Wang

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 08:13:56 PM »
This is pretty awesome to hear about. Just knowing that there's a pretty serious test that only the most experienced can pass is a good way to know who has really been practicing and become very knowledgeable in the art. But by no means is it a way to say "So-and-so is much better than So-and-so".

It sounds very tough. This could be a great way to measure progress for the experienced practitioners. In a way, it carries the same idea as Rafe's ideas on competition.
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Offline Corndogg

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 08:59:24 PM »
For those interested, we have a 3 page thread going on "Parkour Instructor Certification" with a lot of good points raised for and against having a governing body that can "certify" parkour instructors.
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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 10:10:20 AM »
meh, why does Great britain get all the good stuff like early james bond movies, CHERUB series, and parkour classes...oh and Doctor who

Offline NOS - from Parkour Mumbai

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 06:01:21 AM »
I sat and read through Corndogg's thread above, read all 3 pages seeing both sides of viewpoints (as well as both pages of Sean Hannah's related thread on the sfpk forums referenced in that thread) in order to form a more objective opinion on this whole thing.


I think my main gripe with this certification thingy is this:

I don't like the line where they state that "any level 3 instructor can come and supervise your class at any time he wishes to." I don't care if it is Yann Hnautra or Seb Foucan himself who comes down to my class, but I for one certainly do not like the idea of anyone coming and forcefully interfering in my proceedings, or imposing any 'rules and regulations' on me. Sure, if either of them ask me if they could come down to watch a class, I'd be more than happy and honored to have them visit, but if they decide to simply, forcefully make an entry on the grounds that 'we are the governing body and we want to inspect and ratify that you're doing exactly as you were taught in the certificate course', then I'd be one pissed off traceur. Some of the ideas listed in their qualifications section under expectations are beginning to sound more like a government institution's policies & interference and redundant red-tape to me more than a well meaning traceur body laying down guidelines for how people wishing to teach Parkour should proceed.

Parkour is after all, a free discipline devoid of rules. What we have instead is just some basic guidelines as to what Parkour is and isn't, and how should practitioners progress in Parkour while learning it from scratch. And I don't think we need a certification course to ensure that these guidelines are followed.

I know I follow safe practices and proper training progression in my classes even though I charge people for it. If I'm comfortable with my method of training, and my students are comfortable with it, I won't have someone come and tell me what to do or what not to do in my class just because they do not agree with my methods.
I'd rather have my teaching methods reviewed by the community rather than follow the dictats of some self-appointed 'governing body', ironically comprised of the same individuals who came up with the philosophy of 'no ranks, no rules and no competitions for parkour'.

(I'm not taking the introduction of certifications for parkour trainers personally, I'm just presenting my thoughts on the certification process from a personal point of view.)

What are we going to start with next? Certifications/belts for proficiency in Parkour training? Create levels of skill proficiency a guy can achieve in Parkour and Freerunning and start awarding ranks to them as and when they do? ("Hi, my name is Yann Hnautra, and I'm a black belt in Parkour." New guy at Rendezvous 5 - "Oh, that makes me a white belt then. How many years is your certification course to get me a black belt like yours?")
Because with certifications for instructing on the horizon now, that's where we seem to be headed in the future.


(Okay, and I mean no offence to either Yann or Seb, I have great respect for both the guys and their skills, I just used their names to demonstrate an example.)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:18:46 PM by NOS - from Parkour Mumbai »

Offline Mark Lewis

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 07:19:31 PM »
I just finished going over the sfpk forum above and the information about these new Parkour certs as well. There are a lot of good points raised and many many possibilities on the horizon for Parkour. As responsible practitioners, we should be very concerned with how our discipline is displayed to those currently ignorant of it.

I believe certifications developed by the Parkour community are necessary, if only because I believe the advent of certifications is inevitable. As this discipline becomes more popular (and more profitable), certifications will come in an effort to legitimize efforts to grind dollars out of Parkour. If we don't do it properly first, our image could be hijacked and bastardized. More importantly, many newcomers could be sold a pseudo-parkour that could easily cause them physical harm. If only for this reason, we have a responsibility.

Do you need a certification to teach Parkour? Of course not! A well thought out certification process would simply provide: a way for us to show a legitimate effort to disperse sound knowledge of Parkour, a way for us to guard our image and discipline by taking direct responsibility for it, a simple way to recognize quality coaches, and a means to foster and support quality coaching in our community. If the proper goals are in mind, developing certifications can be a very constructive action.

Does the community need certified teachers? I personally believe we do not. Does the community need good teachers? Yes! I think we need this one commodity more than anything else if we are to continue to grow well. A certifying body should strive to help train those with the desire to coach to be better coaches in all capacities, regardless of current skill level. This is easier said than done, but this goal will ensure that we are constantly trying to improve the quality of information that is being disseminated about Parkour. It will also help us make the most of a very valuable resource, our coaches!

That said; I believe that discussing whether Parkour certifications should be created is not constructive. It would be far more constructive to discuss as a community:

1.What qualities a good coach should have

2.Ways to help instill those qualities in potential coaches

3.Ways to support and continue to cultivate those that are already coaching in our community

4.The potential consequences of our actions in terms of usefulness to the community, protection of potential newcomers, and development of quality coaches.

We need to remember; we have a responsibility to those who could be potentially harmed by misrepresentations of our discipline. We need to tailor all our efforts to create certifications around this idea.

What do you think? How can we make this into a source of strength for our community? How can we help provide an excellent source of informed coaches and continue to support them (regardless of whether they have actually opted to certify or not)?
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Offline max eisenberg

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 09:05:15 PM »
to me, parkour is special. i dont like the idea of charging fees to be given the gift of parkour.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 09:11:15 PM by max eisenberg »


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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2010, 03:43:51 AM »
OFF TOPIC....Just curious, what other certifications do you guys know of that could be useful for people wanting to teach PK?

I know there's a MovNat certification, Erwan Le Corre's update and expansion on Hebert's Natural Method. 
Being USGA certified to teach gymnastics would also be helpful...safe falling classes included
AMGA (American Mountain Guides Association) certified for natural environment
Maybe a cross fit certification. 
For safety sake...First aid, CPR/AED certification, maybe throw in ALA (American lifeguard association) certification for natural training. 
I saw this post a while ago http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php/topic,6112.0.html, about a possible APK certification...couldn't figure out if it ever got implemented???

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 03:46:23 AM by Ryan F. HIPK »

Offline Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 07:40:16 AM »
i have not read the other thread, but it seems stupid to me. its good be certified to teach parkour movements and techniques, but what about parkour conditioning?  i am willing to bet they pass that on as well and to say the least pkgen and majestic are not certified physical trainers.   i wouldn’t be surprised if part of their test was like 100 diving hindu twirly birds or whatever the gay exercises are that they are always endorsing.     Correct me if im wrong about conditioning techniques being a part of the certification, because if not then im all for it.
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Offline Jacob Siler

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 08:28:32 PM »
The USAG certification is a safety certification, it is meant to cover the basis of what to do if someone is injured and how to avoid a lawsuit. Something along this line should be essential to be a parkour/freerunning instructor. First aide/ CPR is required before you can take the safety certification. To be a gymnastics instructor, this is all you have to do....actually you don't really have to do this unless you are taking gymnasts to gymnastics meets.
I looked at the site and they are talking about offering up to a master of gymnastics(level 6). Their current website has course offering for level 1 certification.
directly from the site "Core pieces of education are currently available (i.e. Safety Certification, First Aid Basics, Preschool Fundamentals, various congresses, clinics and workshops), and the final course for Level 1 Certification is scheduled to be available by the end of 2008. Additional courses and other types of education will continue to be added in coming years, allowing for certification at higher levels." they haven't updated it since 2008.
They haven't updated it since then.
Basically I'm saying we should have a governing body, but it doesn't have to say that you are a good instructor or not it just should help to cover you if a student gets injured.
Not anyone should teach parkour, proper progressions should be done. And the most experience person should be instructing the class. I personally want to start a class but I don't feel that I am qualified enough to do it, I've been coaching for 6+ years, but I've been practicing parkour for only 9 months, if you look at the A.D.A.P.T certification, I'm not even qualified enough to be a level 1 instructor.
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Offline Rafe

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 11:15:32 PM »
I was breifly MovNat certified(more like grandfathered in). I am both crossfit and USAG certified. I would not recomend any of them. USAG a joke anyone with an IQ over a hundred should be able to ace the USAG safety cert with no prep in 15 minutes. Crossfit is more of joke the do try to teach you but the don't test you so whats the cert worth plus crossfit is dangerous fitness fad with no usefull application to parkour anyways. I can't actually say anything bad about the MovNat cert because when Erwan told me I was qualifed to teach MovNat that was ages ago and he still has not set down what exactly his certs will be like so maybe they will be rigorous, but I personally would not invest in learning from Erwan.

I do think Certs will be necessary someday I don't think that time is arrived. I think those of us who are coaching need to focus on learning as much as possible from other disciplines testing out our ideas day after day and when we have more of knowledge base then coming together and trying to put something meaningful together.
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Offline BaptizedByFire

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 07:40:20 AM »
I am also against certifications. If we absolutely must have a system for distinguishing those of us who are not only the best in our area, but also possess the way with words to teach the less experienced, then let it be the APK Instructor Certification and leave it at that.

The founding fathers of this PK Governing body may have the best of intentions, and may set up a fool-proof system... but I can think of  a group of guys who are way smarter than any of us today who tried the same thing back in 1776, frankly did a much better job than we could do, and it only took corruption and special interest groups a few decades to infest and warp our entire country.

I don't like the idea of a rank system either. You shouldn't need certs to get respect. If you're a great traceur, and you show up in someones class- I'm willing to bet anything you say will be heard and will give pause while everyone takes it in and decides whether they agree or disagree.

However, i certainly DO like the idea of getting other certifications not related to parkour, that one mind find use for while doing parkour. Such as the USAG, Crossfit, CPR/First Responder etc. Some of these certs require you to actually learn something useful- and THAT is the key. The cert is nowhere near as important as the skill it represents.

Offline M1L3S

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2010, 06:07:58 PM »
How about people just using common sense/instincts when training.   :-Sarcasm

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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 09:45:40 PM »
Wow Rafe, "CrossFit is a dangerous fitness fad"? That's a little broad don't you think? I think a lot of people use CF foundations very successfully to become very fit. Yes, you can call it "cross training" or metcon mixed with o-lifting - but saying that CF is dangerous? Like saying Parkour is a dangerous fitness fad. Can PK be dangerous? Sure, if not done correctly. What is "correctly"? Well, if nobody states that out loud, then I guess we're at an impasse. Can CrossFit be done correctly? I know a whole bunch of very fit people who would say yes.

APK is making a cert, now, because we feel there are a lot of people starting to teach and they don't have good guidelines, they don't have good understanding of conditioning and exercises and they don't necessarily know how to get this info to the student in a good effective manner. I won't say anything else about the cert right now because it's being made by a committee, so it's really not my place to say exactly how it will be - I don't know, the committee will take 8-12 weeks to work on that and see what they think and come up with the best that they can, and I'm sure as time goes on the cert will change as new information becomes available and as the results of the cert and it's instructors are observed.

On the subject of ADAPT I'll say only this: I don't agree with their "conditioning" methods. They may have changed since the seminar I went to, but from what I heard of Morazine they haven't, and it is closer to hazing than training.

I stick to my guns on this: Anyone can make a workout hard, but only a good instructor can make a workout effective. Yes, read that again.

Exercise is like medicine, it must be prescribed for the individual, if you give the same medicine blindly to 100 people, 20 will die from allergies, 40 will see no effect, and some will be cured (if they were sick to begin with!). The same goes for exercise, the same amount isn't the right amount for each person, and instructors need to take this into account.



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Offline Mark Lewis

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 08:15:42 PM »
I stick to my guns on this: Anyone can make a workout hard, but only a good instructor can make a workout effective. Yes, read that again.

Exercise is like medicine, it must be prescribed for the individual, if you give the same medicine blindly to 100 people, 20 will die from allergies, 40 will see no effect, and some will be cured (if they were sick to begin with!). The same goes for exercise, the same amount isn't the right amount for each person, and instructors need to take this into account.

I couldn't agree with you more on these points Mark.

I also don't like what I'm learning about ADAPT. It seems too strict and controlling to allow natural growth of the discipline. It says to me, "this is the one way and we own it." This might be harsh and it may not play out this way, but that is my impression.

I'm excited to see the APK cert at its completion. My post above was meant to spur useful conversation and I hope the certification committee sees it. I honestly believe a well thought certification process can be a way to help strengthen and support our community and I hope APK's cert proves to be just that.
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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2010, 01:35:28 AM »
Wow Rafe, "CrossFit is a dangerous fitness fad"? That's a little broad don't you think? I think a lot of people use CF foundations very successfully to become very fit. Yes, you can call it "cross training" or metcon mixed with o-lifting - but saying that CF is dangerous? Like saying Parkour is a dangerous fitness fad. Can PK be dangerous? Sure, if not done correctly. What is "correctly"? Well, if nobody states that out loud, then I guess we're at an impasse. Can CrossFit be done correctly? I know a whole bunch of very fit people who would say yes.

APK is making a cert, now, because we feel there are a lot of people starting to teach and they don't have good guidelines, they don't have good understanding of conditioning and exercises and they don't necessarily know how to get this info to the student in a good effective manner. I won't say anything else about the cert right now because it's being made by a committee, so it's really not my place to say exactly how it will be - I don't know, the committee will take 8-12 weeks to work on that and see what they think and come up with the best that they can, and I'm sure as time goes on the cert will change as new information becomes available and as the results of the cert and it's instructors are observed.

On the subject of ADAPT I'll say only this: I don't agree with their "conditioning" methods. They may have changed since the seminar I went to, but from what I heard of Morazine they haven't, and it is closer to hazing than training.

I stick to my guns on this: Anyone can make a workout hard, but only a good instructor can make a workout effective. Yes, read that again.

Exercise is like medicine, it must be prescribed for the individual, if you give the same medicine blindly to 100 people, 20 will die from allergies, 40 will see no effect, and some will be cured (if they were sick to begin with!). The same goes for exercise, the same amount isn't the right amount for each person, and instructors need to take this into account.


thanks for the update on the APK certifications, I was looking for more info on it.  I'd like to follow apk's certifications process as much as possible.  Could someone in the know post updates on it every once in a while?  I'd imagine that small community leaders without ready access to bigger pk scenes would love to have a fresh flow of ideas about how to approach teaching pk, various methods of getting info across, how to help beginners to build a solid foundation for training that works for them, suggestions on bodies of knowledge to draw from in designing a "class"....etc. 

I like your comment on exercise and how its an individual thing, gave me something to think about.

Offline DaveS

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2010, 05:25:54 PM »
"CrossFit is a dangerous fitness fad"? ... I think a lot of people use CF foundations very successfully to become very fit.
I just wanted to make a quick point about this. I might have misunderstood Mark's meaning, but it's also relevant to the main topic.

Safety has got nothing to do with fitness. Safety is a mental skill. You can have all the physical attributes you like and you'll still get injured if you attempt something beyond your limit.

Safety is entirely down to your choice of action. That means having good decision making skills; a good idea of what you can do and a strong enough character to resist temptations to go too far beyond it.

This is why I have an objection to excessive physical conditioning. To improve your decision making skills you need to use them, to test them and push their limits, and while you do this you will make mistakes. You have to, in order to learn.
When you're physically strong your training becomes more dangerous (greater distances/forces/impacts etc.). Every bad decision you make has much more serious consequences, so you can afford to make fewer mistakes.
If you're physically weaker, then your training involves less danger and you are able to make more mistakes, making this a much better point in your training for developing those crucial mental skills.

Physical strength is useful, but for me it's the second phase of training, not the first. The first is the mental strength.
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2010, 05:37:13 PM »
Dave, It wasn't me who said CrossFit was dangerous - my point was that how it is applied used or taught can be either safe or dangerous, just like parkour.

So that we have a frame of reference, can you please clarify "excessive"? How do you gauge what's not enough, enough, and excessive?

Thanks!
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Offline DaveS

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Re: PKGen's ADAPT Certification Officially Begins
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2010, 06:41:06 AM »
Yes, I realise that it wasn't you that said Crossfit was dangerous. However I was actually responding to your words, which appeared to imply that 'Crossfit isn't inherently dangerous because it makes people fit', which doesn't follow.

By 'excessive physical conditioning' in this context I'm referring to any parkour training style that places more emphasis on physical development than on mental development, which leads to the situation I described above, people being stronger physically than mentally. Training that is disproportionately weighted towards the physical.
I think the ultimate guide to the effectiveness of training, and therefore what is the right amount, is how well it helps you improve or achieve your goals.
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