Author Topic: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?  (Read 7927 times)

Offline Rafe

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 03:08:21 PM »
Norush what exactly is this philosophy and have you had it explicit explained to you from the founders? All the philosophising i Have heard around parkour has been vague and contridicitory, I think the guys who founded parkour were dedicated and talented athletes who saw something other hadn't I don't think the makes them great philosophers sorry. I think there is common parkour culture to some degree that has arisen in the community that is very positive maybe its chance maybe its how this type of training effects people or the type of people it attracts but that sub culture is very postive and i have allot of attachment to it but I think is ridiculous to thing Parkour has strongly developed and described philosophy.
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Offline M1L3S

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 03:18:31 PM »
+1 norush and Gabe Arnold


Offline Jeff

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 04:37:54 PM »
To answer this question you first need to have everyone in the conversation agree on what parkour is, and then what all the philosophies are. It's likely that you all have different philosophies in mind. Then once you do that, everyone in the conversation can agree that something "is" or "isn't", but everyone outside the conversation who didn't get the memo will continue thinking what they think on the matter. With no one central authority, the most you would be able to say is that one group thinks A, and another thinks B.

"Is" and "is not" when applied to fuzzy, human-centric (and typically Western-centric) concepts in thought puzzles like this are fairly arbitrary. Like the tree falling in the woods thing. But it's a fun process to go through anyway.

Offline JFJKDPK

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 04:38:51 PM »
Nice way of putting it NoRush  *thumbs up*
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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 01:44:20 AM »
I don't believe parkour is parkour without the philosophy. We all say that parkour/free running is not competition, yet when a competition arises, we all call it parkour/free running, even though it isn't. Then again, just because I'm trying to remove limits, overcome obstacles, remain un-competitive and face challenges in, say, mountain biking does not make it parkour. The two go side by side, but I don't think parkour can be called parkour without either the movement or the philosophy; both must exist.

Just as a side note, many think free running is about competition, but it isn't. Sebastian Foucan, the so called founder of free running, is not competitive in what he does.

Offline Chris Wachtman

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 03:22:28 PM »
If someone who has never heard of parkour is running away from a dog, and they use a jump, vault, or wallrun to escape, are they using parkour?

I would say yes, someone can use parkour even without dwelling on the philosophies. So I would also say yes, parkour is still parkour without the philosophies.
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Offline Spencer B

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 03:54:06 PM »
If you can't call what you're doing parkour, if you can't say the moment you're doing it that you're doing parkour, for whatever reason, not knowing what parkour is, not wanting to shame the name of it because you're doing something wrong or you feel you're not good enough to say you do it, or whatever. ANY reason at all, where you can't say I'm doing parkour, then you're not doing it.

Parkour is an ideal and a mindset. It is conscientious effort on expanding ourselves physically and mentally and focusing on using the whole of ourselves towards an end. Staying safe and moving as we were meant to move. Becoming stronger and wiser. With this in mind, really anything that fits into that category is parkour.
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Offline TaylorPK

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2010, 05:02:00 PM »
I don't really care about the philosophy anymore.. I cared about it for 3 years, there is no reason it should be a focal point for me anymore. All I care about is moving, having fun and improving myself.

Offline David Glass

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2010, 05:20:49 PM »
Parkour is an art. Why? because there is no absolute.

The objective is getting from A to B as quickly as possible. The paths are many as are the different variants that can get you there faster (speed, agility, power, etc). You chose the path in accordance to your skillsets and vision

A lifestyle I can accept. Diet, rest, training all will affect you as a traceur. As far as being a phylosophy, I've always thought that's pushing it.

I do believe there are phylosphies Parkour is a result of, such as breaking away from the "Life as a hamster on a wheel" and choosing a different path, but, lets face it, if everyone out there did parkour, and it were the norm, not the exception, then you'd be left with what parkour truly is.
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Offline SafeNSure

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2010, 08:54:11 AM »
...I think there is [a] common parkour culture to some degree that has arisen in the community that is very positive; maybe its chance, maybe its how this type of training effects people or the type of people it attracts, but that sub-culture is very positive and i have a lot of attachment to it, but I think it's ridiculous to think Parkour has [a] strongly developed and described philosophy.

Parkour is an art. Why? because there is no absolute.

The objective is getting from A to B as quickly as possible. The paths are many as are the different variants that can get you there faster (speed, agility, power, etc). You chose the path in accordance to your skillsets and vision

A lifestyle I can accept. Diet, rest, training all will affect you as a traceur. As far as being a philosophy, I've always thought that's pushing it.

Parkour is an ideal and a mindset. It is conscientious effort on expanding ourselves physically and mentally and focusing on using the whole of ourselves towards an end. Staying safe and moving as we were meant to move. Becoming stronger and wiser. With this in mind, really anything that fits into that category is parkour.

I found these being VERY agreeable points.
A philosophy (aside being an academic/scholastic system of thoughts) is meant (also) as "a way of addressing fundamental questions distinguished by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on reasoned argument". As Rafe said, for Parkour this has been a moving target.
(actively moved also by us, "users", i.e. by Rafe himself [http://www.americanparkour.com/content/view/4904/378/] or by Danny Ilabaca [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkgWjLx5ags]).

I do agree with David again, though that
...there are philosophies Parkour is a result of, such as breaking away from the "Life as a hamster on a wheel" and choosing a different path, but, lets face it, if everyone out there did parkour, and it were the norm, not the exception, then you'd be left with what parkour truly is.

Offline P.R. Stuart

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 09:35:48 AM »
Matthew made a great point.  You can do parkour without being a traceur.  In a similar vein, you can run but not be a runner, you can lose but not be a loser. 
I would say that you don't get to be a Runner, a Wrestler, a Traceur unless you dedicate more to it.
I decided not to put something deep here.  I'm in this for the physical aspect, the mental and spiritual are my own.

Offline DaveS

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2010, 11:18:20 AM »
Just noticed you're having the same discussion I've seen elsewhere so I thought I'd post my comments here too.

Quote
A philosophy (aside being an academic/scholastic system of thoughts) is meant (also) as "a way of addressing fundamental questions distinguished by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on reasoned argument".
...or, to call a spade a spade, a way of thinking.

Parkour is the practice of moving past obstacles, to help you get past all obstacles. It is a method, a training system, a practice, a discipline. Doing parkour is training. Using parkour is developing your abilities. It is possible to practise badly (if we don't understand or don't care), but that is different to not practising at all.

To practise you need to move, but you also need obstacles.

If a wall is small then it doesn't limit you and therefore isn't really an obstacle to you (it's not difficult or challenging). To practise parkour you need to find the parts of the environment that are obstacles to you. The parts people use will be as different as the people are different. Fortunately, the environment is varied.

To do anything difficult you need to believe that you can do it. Otherwise you don't even try.
To do anything difficult you need to want to do it. Otherwise you don't even try.
Those thoughts are the philosophy of parkour. I want to get past my obstacles, and I believe that it is possible. That's the way of thinking needed for parkour. You need to think you can get past the obstacles. It is important, it is actually impossible to practise parkour without that, but it's only a tiny fraction of a person's complete way of thinking.

Just for Rafe ;), here's an ancient quote, "The philosophy is of always going forwards, never stopping. When I have a problem, when i can't progress, like in life, those problems, there is always a way.
Everyone can do parkour. Parkour exists at the times where there is an obstacle in front of you and you are obliged to use your limbs to pass." ~ David Belle
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Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2010, 11:50:08 AM »
I don't really care about the philosophy anymore.. I cared about it for 3 years, there is no reason it should be a focal point for me anymore. All I care about is moving, having fun and improving myself.
Well that's the philosophy right there.


I don't think you have to consciously construct the philosophy in your mind for it to be the way of addressing fundamental questions and defining how you life you life. There is always a way somebody ticks. Some people care to attempt to define it, others spend their time on what appears more worthwhile. I can't say I see either one being necessarily better.
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Offline Rafe

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2010, 01:09:26 PM »
I am playing the devils advocate here I think there is vague philosophical background to parkour one that is very postive and that I support but I think it is moving target and people who become fundamentalist about it are pinning themselves to something very ill-defined.

If we back away from logic or the reality of the community parkour is huge part of my personal philosophy the concept of the constant progression of always working to be able to overcome obstacles to be always strive to be a stronger and more capable human that affects my whole life and its why I have dedicated my life to parkour. There are two big moments in my adult life meeting my wife and finding parkour. I am not religious but I often feel parkour fills a near religious role for me.

However I think even when we love something even when it fills our lives we should be engage our critical thinking we should evaluate and update and be open to new understanding.
I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline Corndogg

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2010, 01:12:02 PM »
I think people will agree though that it is easier to share something you love with others if that something is defined, as opposed to totally vague.  Not that it has to be 100% defined black and white.  But as Mark has noted several times, defining it to a fair degree is necessary to explain and communicate it to others, especially those still plugged into the Matrix.

Personally, I would like to share parkour with others, so the more information I have on various definitions and the philosophy the better, so that I can use what I need when explaining it to different people.
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Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2010, 04:18:37 PM »
I just don't tell people the philosophy. I know I didn't start because of it. I thought it looked hella sick and wanted to train my body to do such things. I changed during the process, and being very attentive to my own thoughts, I noticed what I guess is the "parkour philosophy" or process.

I agree with Rafe. Do not worry (at least PERSONALLY) about any philosophy. Hold yourself to high standards training things that you enjoy. You can innately know what is positive progress and what is not. Learn how to be true to yourself and train as such.
Water conforms to the shape of it's surroundings. Do not be water. Shape your own life.

Offline Corndogg

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2010, 07:31:11 PM »
Hold yourself to high standards training things that you enjoy. You can innately know what is positive progress and what is not. Learn how to be true to yourself and train as such.


WORD  8)
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Offline Jacquis "Curfew"

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2010, 03:01:48 PM »
there is no way on this earth that parkour would be the same. The philosophy is the defining infrastructure...well in most cases...Thats like: peanut butter and no jelly 8)

Offline Ryan Thill

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2010, 03:07:56 PM »
there is no way on this earth that parkour would be the same. The philosophy is the defining infrastructure...well in most cases...Thats like: peanut butter and no jelly 8)

What is the philosophy then?  I'd think that if the philosophy defined what Parkour is people would have agreed on it by now.  And I like a good peanut butter sandwich every once in a while.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 03:09:54 PM by Ryan Thill »

Offline Corndogg

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Re: Is Parkour Still Parkour Without The Philosophies?
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2010, 03:18:23 PM »
Is a "philosophy" something that can be perfectly defined?  A philosophy to me is a guide, and not a black and white definition with all inclusions and exclusions noted.  Do people differentiate between a "philosophy" and "definition"?  Are definitions static, and do philosophies change?

 ???
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