Author Topic: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.  (Read 22554 times)

Offline Spencer B

  • the Romantic
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
  • Karma: +47/-25
  • ...*BANG*...
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2009, 03:24:35 PM »
Agreed.  This is big, and it can totally work without destroying the art.  I know if you get Mark, Skipper, Leon, Travis, the rest of the tribe and APK working together, everything will be in good hands.  I'm excited to see what can happen.

This I believe whole-heartedly, but the key-word is can...We have a lot of intelligent people representing us, who have proven themselves time and time again... But so do large corporations, and likely even more-so.

I will cut myself short here and just say to be careful in your dealings and know that as long as you don't dip into competition (From what I've seen is that more people are against it than for it) you will have at least my support.
www.cracked.com
www.tvtropes.org

There are times when you want to break down and rage at the heavens. Don't. Stay calm, and let the emotions flood in, accept them and then rise above them. Never dwell. Don't fear or worry. Anything worth thinking about is worth talking about. And... Good luck.

Offline Everett McClain

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • Karma: +14/-18
  • Ghost
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2009, 06:40:13 PM »
wow this will be fun...

"We don't want to change Parkour (although parkour is constantly changing) we want more people to be involved."
"This venture doesn't change our values, it gives them a much larger audience"

Your doing it wrong. Plain and simple

"We do not want to change the way parkour is portrayed, we want it to be acceptable to the public. We don't want to get a reputation like skating has, we never did."

You say you dont want to, but it is exactly what your in the process of doing.

"As for the comment about Fremantle's goals, does "The Price is Right" or American Idol" somehow hurt somebody or something? Is singing now bad because it's on TV? "

Just lol. Well played, sir

"I know and understand many of the arguments against competition, what I suggest is that if you'd like to be helpful, you stay as active as possible, train as hard as you can, help as many people around you as possible, write articles, if you're qualified, teach people formally, if not, help those you can help. Give us SUGGESTIONS on how to do it RIGHT, not just what you're afraid we'll do wrong."

Its not our own hides we are worried about. It is the people any comp's or shows will attract.
There is no way to do it right. There is no way to murder correctly, just as there is no way to murder a sport correctly.

"A 3 year old child can flip a light switch and tell you it is broken. It may take a nuclear physicist at the other end to fix the problem and get power restored. Don't point out problems, become part of the solution."

Solution: Don't turn it into a competition.

Instead of competition (because it would be irresponsible to make all these critiques and not give some input)

Go back and look at the Ideas the community came up with for the APK print magazine. Instead of comps, Do a something like a weekly show, with segments for interviews with traceurs around the countries, Show Demon drills, Workout of the day. Have tips and tricks for boosting techniques. It is hard to resist the temptation to turn it competitive, but Don't!

I am going to find and post some more of these suggestions momentarily

This can be done Without Competition.
Yes it has potential to be competitive. It has amazing potential for it.
The same way a baby has the huge potential to become the next Charles Manson
We dont want either to happen.
This Can Be done without competition
"Everyday Men and Women are the World are seen Climbing Scaffolding and Jumping off Walls.

For Them The City Is A Gaint Jungle Gym And Recess Lasts Forever." - New York Parkour ~ Physical Graffiti



Proud to still be a kid out the

Offline Everett McClain

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • Karma: +14/-18
  • Ghost
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2009, 06:45:23 PM »
Some great Ideas here you guys, and good insight Mitchell and Zachery.  From you two I’ve gathered that it needs to have all of the latest and future events/stories while giving sections a timeless quality different than what can be found on the internet. 

Here is what else I’ve been able to piece together:  I includes a summation most(if not all) of the ideas posted.
"Information that would be useful to its readers"   "epic idea" 

Content

Highlights and interviews of different traceurs (famous/known, maybe unknown) to see what they do "A Day in the Life of..." 
Warm-ups, exercises, conditioning, training methods, moves, drills, etc...    (Demon's Drills section)
Featured traceur/traceuse, Movement of the month, forgotten movements, tips and tricks
Tutorials of such showing 6 progressive frames on one page to demonstrate the motion involved (with text of course)
Local and international parkour news/events and stories, headlining what's taking place in the community
Calendar listing the biggest jams, and special events in different regions of the US, and maybe the world
Philosophy, psychology, physics/science, sports, travel, and history surrounding parkour/freerunning and its development
Perhaps every once and a while an issue specifically dedicated to certain subjects i.e. tutorials

Inspiration

Other sports magaizines to look at the set-up
To base it similarly off of the APK site
Local and/or international focuses


Other positives

Might get more people into the discipline
Increase APK membership/publicity
Earn more respect for the discipline

Freerunner & Internet vs A Physical Magazine

"Whatever happened to The Freerunner?"  "It still comes out every month" 
Here is the link http://freerunnermag.net/live/ I checked it out and it looks great, but it's limited to the internet/computers. 
Point being not everyone has a computer, a magazine is more portable, reads better, and might have knowledge specific to the magazine.  Check out Mitchell Lewis' comments for other reasons.
"Quality. As bad as this might sound, printed stories tend to have more weight than internet stories. They tend to be more thought out, more thorough, and more informative." "Portability and Coverage"

Other people mentioned how it might help them not be so attached to and distracted by the internet.
"i need to quit spending so much time on here and more time outside training!! lol"

Other Points

"I could read it at school during down time"
"It would give me incentive to spread the word if I could just open it to the Philosophy section and just say, here read this"


This is one of the summary post, slightly cut down to stay in context
"Everyday Men and Women are the World are seen Climbing Scaffolding and Jumping off Walls.

For Them The City Is A Gaint Jungle Gym And Recess Lasts Forever." - New York Parkour ~ Physical Graffiti



Proud to still be a kid out the

Offline Skipper

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2009, 07:46:56 PM »
I think arguing about competition to this extent, level of frustration and distress will hurt parkour way more than ANY competition is capable of...

Offline Sparklefish

  • EAF!
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1323
  • Karma: +147/-16
    • View Profile
    • San Francisco Parkour
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 12:33:50 AM »
I think arguing about competition to this extent, level of frustration and distress will hurt parkour way more than ANY competition is capable of...

I too feel internal arguments within the larger parkour community, which largely focus in my experience on commercialization, competition and the definition or origin of parkour are more damaging to our community and our discipline than any harm from the things themselves.  I've seen these arguments flare up on local, national and international levels and watched how long the effects of the argument last.  Generally speaking, most of the community is neither extremely for, nor against, competition or commercialization.

However, when these arguments break out it seems that the conversations are dominated by people holding the extreme viewpoints: those overwhelmingly for or against.  Those who are mildly against, slightly uncomfortable with, in favor of it if it's tasteful or indifferent rarely benefit from these conversations, nor are they always allowed time to consider points.  When hyperbole and name-calling take over debates neutrality is maligned along with everything else.

There is no way to murder correctly, just as there is no way to murder a sport correctly.

My creative writing, and critical thinking, teacher is fond of saying that "if what you're saying matters enough, nothing less than the best way of saying it will suffice."  I find it hard to believe that accusing APK of murder (which is not just a logical fallacy, but also a "pathetic appeal" in terms of classical rhetoric) is truly the best way of saying what clearly matters very much to you Everett.

Initially upon seeing the headline on the main page, my heart sank a bit.  There are things I like about parkour now, that I fear may change with more media exposure (for instance, it's a community, not a scene; everyone is nice; there aren't crowds getting in my way at hotspots).  However, I've been around the block with enough things that began "underground" ('hardcore' music, indie rock) and were later commercialized to know that with something as exciting and potentially marketable as parkour, an attempt at large-scale commercialization will occur eventually.  (It's almost like the Rule 34 of capitalism: if anyone sees a potential to exploit something, then a thousand companies will try to beat each other to the first and last dollar)

I don't watch TV, or listen to the radio, or trust the major media for anything important in my life.  However, if parkour is to be commercialized and aired before the public, I prefer there be people I know and trust involved.  Also, after 13 years in the workplace stuck in low paying dead end jobs, I know what it means to struggle, and I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to pursue their dreams.  We have some incredible people in our community, if they have a chance to do parkour (which I consider synonymous with freerunning) professionally, and make a little, or a lot, of money doing so, I wish them the best.  In fact, even if they become superstars, I'll support 'em.  It might benefit our culture greatly to celebrate hardworking, clean-living, genuinely nice traceurs and traceuses instead of the myriad famous bozos out there whose vapid lives are venerated by the venal media machine.

Mark, what I would like to see included is coverage of the history and philosophy of parkour, in France, America and elsewhere.  I wouldn't like to see a cult of hero-worship develop towards advanced practitioners, so I would like to see perhaps some brief profiles of regular average-Joe practitioners.  Interviews with community leaders and members, so more perspectives are presented, even those that are anti-competition perhaps.  It might also be fun to have a different local community spotlighted every episode, showing our geographical and human diversity.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 01:30:52 AM by Beretta »

Offline PkShinobi

  • Guenons
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Karma: +4/-2
  • Leo Dyer
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2009, 01:29:12 AM »
If "they" do, I just hope they don't make it over competitive to wear people have bar fights over who won, give the masses the wrong view/idea of it... I don't support the idea of parkour becoming a "competitive" "sport", but if it is going to be competitive don't make it serious or @#$%ing stupid, just something enjoyable and non-violent which so that there would be less riots, fights, deaths over who wins or loses... If it becomes a sport then I would boycott aswell. Competition is nice to have aslong as its "friendly" and not "hostile" our world is bad and @#$%ed enough.
To be honest, I don't think FME has "good" intentions.

I know money talks, but is there any morals, ethics and values left in this world?!

Sad that I experienced a friendly community, and activity for only 2 weeks, now to see that it "looks like" its turning into something that its not.

Quote
Parkour is the ‘it’ sport,” said Eugene Young, chief creative officer for FMNA.  “Already an extremely compelling visual phenomenon on the internet, we plan to bring it to a much wider audience via broadcast and cable.”

Why did they call it the "it" sport, In my opinion, I think they want to take advantage of it for profit, not to spread it, but to market it, and change it into something its not.

Quote
The primary objective of the deal is to grow the sport into a global entertainment franchise and league competition through live events, a television platform and brand extension opportunities across sponsorship, consumer products, new media and gaming.
Im sorry that I jumped the gun slightly, but of course APK has my support, when I said "they" or "it" I of course meant FME.
I don't like the media alot... and masses of ignorant people  :-\.
I didn't mean to exagerate and slander if I did, I was really just shocked and frustrated, when I heard the words "commercialized" "competitive/competition", and "sport".


Just please forgive my own ignorance, I'm glad APK is running the show. I don't mind "competition", aslong as its friendly and doesn't lead to some situation of violence/arguments over whos better, and ""Hero worship"" (advanced practitioners)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 01:31:45 AM by PkShinobi »
"It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters, in the end."

Offline Jake 'Red Beard' Anderson

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Representing the Pirates of Parkour
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2009, 01:31:27 AM »
As usual, I strongly agree with what Beretta has to say here. I think he's an excellent example of what the Parkour community needs to be, and what we need to be seen as. Normal people that have found a passion and love it as well as life and enjoy being happy and helpful to everyone around them.

There is one thing in particular thing that Beretta said that I'd really like to emphasize:

I wouldn't like to see a cult of hero-worship develop towards advanced practitioners, so I would like to see perhaps some brief profiles of regular average-Joe practitioners.  Interviews with community leaders and members, so more perspectives are presented, even those that are anti-competition perhaps.  It might also be fun to have a different local community spotlighted every episode, showing our geographical and human diversity.

Parkour needs to be about the normal practitioners, not the advanced elite. Not that there's anything wrong with being really good and getting videos of yourself out there and hopefully making something of yourself with your abilities and talents, heck, I'd like that for myself, haha. I'm just saying that it definitely shouldn't be all about those people and those people alone.

Offline Spencer B

  • the Romantic
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
  • Karma: +47/-25
  • ...*BANG*...
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2009, 04:11:14 AM »
I think our culture could benefit from a General Fitness and Health show run by some certain traceurs we have over here in a somewhat similarly named forum, eh? *Wink wink nudge nudge*  ;D

And it would certainly be preferable to a show based around competition, IMO. There's a lot of things you can do without competition even being involved, really.

www.cracked.com
www.tvtropes.org

There are times when you want to break down and rage at the heavens. Don't. Stay calm, and let the emotions flood in, accept them and then rise above them. Never dwell. Don't fear or worry. Anything worth thinking about is worth talking about. And... Good luck.

Offline Mark Toorock

  • M2
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
  • Karma: +302/-72
    • View Profile
    • American Parkour
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2009, 08:18:18 AM »
Brett thanks for the great post! Some of the things you mention are things that have been discussed as things that could be worked into the format.

I think the thing that the "against" people need to realize is this: Without competition, without the risk / reward factor, this is not going to make it to the public eye. I know that you are now saying "that's fine" ... but don't other people deserve to get to see and learn about freerunning? because you ARE smart and found it on the internet does that mean you need it MORE or LESS than some poor kid stuck in front of the TV all day?

So yes, a "magazine" style show will work within the parkour community, but it will nto work within the larger community.

What we are working to do is create something that shows the history, the training, the communities and the interesting people that exist in parkour along with the superheroes that exist in parkour - both are interesting and important. Without David belle - who else would have striven so hard to be better? We NEED the superheroes to inspire the rest of  us, and we need to show "regular people" that yes, regular people can and do do parkour and freerunning. This goes back to my other post "making it inclusive and accessible" - if we only showed the superheroes that would make it exclusive and inaccessible.

Please think of ti in these terms: If our goal is to spread parkour and freerunning in a positive way (which it is) then WHY would we do the things that you are afraid of? How would that help our goals?

Yes, you can say "the producers" - well, I've been working with them for over three years, you can see events and things that I have chosen to be associated with and not - so I guess you have to trust that I picked these guys because I saw them as the best candidates to suit our (APK's) goals.

With that in mind, I really appreciate the continued suggestions - formats, ideas, what you want to see - what you want to see is much more important than what you don't, the what you don't is frankly obvious, boring, and has been stated a thousand times (not speaking to any one particular person here). So, if you want to have a positive impact, give input of how you wan it to go, what you want to see.

understand that there will be a competitive format and that it will be on mass media, so suggestions like "don't have a competition" and "don't put it on TV" are really wasted breath, it's past that point. Helpful input will be much more useful.

thanks!

Be Useful.
If I don't try to make the world a better place, who will?
Every person has a choice - live by your fears or live by your dreams

Offline AKincaid

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2009, 08:48:23 AM »
I think the thing that the "against" people need to realize is this: Without competition, without the risk / reward factor, this is not going to make it to the public eye. I know that you are now saying "that's fine" ... but don't other people deserve to get to see and learn about freerunning?

Yes, they do deserve to be able to learn about it.  But why compromise the values of a competition free environment for it?  In my own opinion, parkour and freerunning are fine how they are, and the amount of practitioners is growing steadily.  I believe that if all you want is more people to get involved, then changing our disciplines into competitive sports is the wrong way to do it. 

I believe there is more to this than what is revealed, if this is all just a campaign to grow the community and number of practitioners, let the existing community take on that role.  Encourage them to spread the disciplines by their own means (such as simple word of mouth, placing flyers around for jam and beginner sessions), not by competition.  Of course the community will not see the large spike caused by television exposure, but I believe it can still grow while maintaining its core values.


Offline Alec Furtado

  • kicks butt.
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1992
  • Karma: +27/-6
  • Balance.
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2009, 09:48:59 AM »
I'm fine with comps but, from a viewers perspective... make it like an obstacle course (Ninja Warrior...) because freestyles tend to just look like showboating. If you must do a freestyle, please make flow a large aspect in the judging. If you can't string tricks together at least decently, your score should drop. There was some flow in the Barclaycard stuff but most of the time there wasn't. Also, make sure you show the backgrounds of the performers... make it more personal and allow the viewer to see the progression of their training.


Frosti and Levi Show? :D



On another note,  let's take a look at how mainstream parkour will go... do we expect it to become as massively practiced as soccer or be more of a 2nd tier activity like martial arts? I'm thinking the latter. By second tier, I mean it is not as mainstream as soccer, baseball, or football, but it is recognized by just about every single person in the world (it might not be known/understood, but everyone has heard of karate and tkd and knows they have something to do with fighting). I'm sure we all want parkour to grow, but how is the issue. Some people, myself included, see a "glorified" way of parkour expanding person by person. I can tell you and am proud of who I've trained with to get to where I'm at today. These aren't even well-known people in the least, but it's part of my story. The downside is that this is just about the slowest way for parkour to grow. Consequently, parkour will take that much longer to reach the public eye which means that much longer of dealing with people that are scared of a new thing. But who says a television show can't fit in there? A lot of us started from seeing a movie or videos on Youtube, what's wrong with others starting from seeing a television show? Even if it's not the best, there's plenty of Youtube videos out there that aren't the best either. It's really not that much different. And say they get the wrong impression and want to start seeing how high of buildings they can jump off of (which people already do). We have an extremely strong base here. There are good communities now in just about every area in the US. There are legit classes popping up everywhere and more large events are being held. If anything, now is the time to go towards a large expansion of the community. It may be tough to handle the increase but our network is strong enough to support it. At that point, we can all combat any misconceptions about what we do (which is what Mark originally asked us to do) by getting out there. If someone doesn't have the right idea, they will soon learn the kind of work required for this discipline.

Understand that this direction can work, but it will take all of our help.
Water conforms to the shape of it's surroundings. Do not be water. Shape your own life.

Offline Andrew Hull

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 895
  • Karma: +31/-24
  • Curmudgeon
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2009, 01:01:51 PM »
WATCH! REDBELT! SERIOUSLY!
Rely on yourself. Rely on your body. Rely on your training, instincts, and heart. Everything else is a crutch.

Quote from: Dan Kelley
Don't wear shoes.  Make the pavement bleed.

Offline Everett McClain

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • Karma: +14/-18
  • Ghost
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2009, 06:13:06 PM »
understand that there will be a competitive format and that it will be on mass media, so suggestions like "don't have a competition" and "don't put it on TV" are really wasted breath, it's past that point. Helpful input will be much more useful.


This is like saying to a child: "Your going to eat your vegetables because I am your parent and I said so"

Your telling us that there is nothing we can do. Whereas you claim that it is in the best interest of the community.

The only thing left is:

Why? Why are you going forward with something that is so highly disputed? There are so many that are against, even more who are not decided and very very few (aside from the actually people already in on this) actually agree. The discipline is NON-Competitive. How can you just throw that aside, simply because it makes good TV and will get more followers?

Obviously its not the best interest of the community if so many people are against it.


Quote
"Yes, you can say "the producers" - well, I've been working with them for over three years, you can see events and things that I have chosen to be associated with and not - so I guess you have to trust that I picked these guys because I saw them as the best candidates to suit our (APK's) goals."

Obviously my goals in parkour and APK's goals in Parkour (although similar) are different. Therefor, I will most likely be hanging up my APK account when all this resolves

And there are many many excellent reasons given by others aside from myself

Generally, I think this is an unintelligent move.

And the question isn't whether Competition will ruin Yours, nor mine, nor whomever is reading this, view of parkour. Its the fact that it is shattering the foundation of parkour and that it give a negative influence to anyone who it inspires, among many other reasons.
"Everyday Men and Women are the World are seen Climbing Scaffolding and Jumping off Walls.

For Them The City Is A Gaint Jungle Gym And Recess Lasts Forever." - New York Parkour ~ Physical Graffiti



Proud to still be a kid out the

Offline Joseph Torchia

  • Guenons
  • **
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +18/-0
  • Parkour Horizons
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2009, 09:38:13 PM »
Sorry guys, really meant to post up some thoughts on this by now but I'm moving out of my apartment.  I should be able to contribute more actively within the next day or two.  Until then, would anyone from APK mind answering more of the questions I raised in the comment thread?

Offline Ben Cunis

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • "Fortune favors the bold." --Virgil
    • View Profile
    • Synetic Theater
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2009, 05:59:45 AM »
I have to admit I'm kind of enjoying this conversation -- think about it, in what other discipline does a country full of practitioners get to weigh in on important events in the evolution of their art form...and know that those people who are influencing it will listen carefully and respond?

The parkour community is a special one, has always been, and the emphasis on sharing and community, on openness and personal growth, is so basic to the discipline that it won't go away with the big eye of the media turned on it. I still consider myself relatively new to Parkour and FR, having practiced for about 3 years now, and I remain thankful that I found this art and this community.

In terms of the debate...I'll make a comparison coming from my own life (what else is there?)...I've made my career in the performing arts, and continue to do so with enough success that I pay for a good chunk of my bread with it, and we're all familiar with the struggle between the money that goes into art and the purity of the art itself. I and the people I work with every day deal with this balance -- and sometimes because of the struggle involved in dealing with the balance something really great is made.

A lot of time what is made is utter crap, but anyone who has ever created something good (or gotten better at Parkour?) can tell you the amount of failure you must first go through to get to something excellent.

The fact is, when the big money gets involved, often it corrupts the art, yes...but think about movies for a second -- the corporate interests are there, without a doubt, but sometimes there's this remarkable confluence where they come together...and a great movie is made. Art is made, the money is made, and it all came together. It takes intelligence and integrity on both sides for this to happen, but it DOES happen. Like many here, I trust Mark, his belief in Parkour, and also his judgment of the people he chooses to work with.

Mark, what I'd like to see (and honestly expect to see, knowing APK), is a show that emphasizes the openness of our community (put people in touch with each other! The show should have its own online forums that EVERYONE HERE weighs in on...and remind people watching to go online, not to see ads, but to connect to the community -- and make sure the veterans respond!), the natural fitness aspect of parkour (get those kids off their asses! Emphasize the joy and happiness that comes with moving every day, suggest exercises and basic moves, have a tutorial of the week for simple moves...), and perhaps even manage to relay the idea that fitness, skill, and movement are not about becoming a superhero for the length of your 20's or getting muscle-y enough to like staring at your own facebook pictures more, but rather they are about finding the core of your humanity and caring for your own body and those around you...for your WHOLE LIFE.

Not to mention, a lot of reality shows these days are cast by profiling people so that they'll have the bar fights and come into conflict and treat each other like dirt. Here's to the boys and girls of the Tribe and the Alliance, represent us well, and give us a show in which people can see humans treating each other decently...AND having a good time, telling a good story. Who'd have thought?

And perhaps the spellcheck on these forums will soon NOT tell me that parkour isn't a word.

Offline Elektrik

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2009, 09:29:34 AM »
I'm one of those guys that doesn't hold an especially strong opinion on anything. and all I can say is, as long as the beliefs/philosophy remain strong in everyone, i will continue to support the this notion in any way that i can.

Offline Shaelyn

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2009, 01:36:48 PM »
the philosophy of parkour is deeply personal.  many of us may have common ideas about what that entails, but there will be some of us with different opinions.  from those varying opinions will come various "branches" of parkour.  competition is one of these.

but, as said, parkour is a personal choice.  even if at its core, parkour was never meant to be competitive, so long as there's someone out there that thinks otherwise, it will become competitive on some level.  it's that fundamental variance of opinion that created different religions, different music genres, different political parties, different types of computers, different forms of martial arts, different everything.  that is what makes the world so beautifully diverse.

now, I will continue to practice parkour non-competitively.  I don't believe it should be a competitive sport, either.  but, that's my decision, and I respect and embrace the inevitable.  some traceurs and traceuses are going to compete.  that's their choice, not mine.  I cannot and will not force my opinions on them, and I will not think any less of them for choosing a slightly different path than mine or the founding fathers.

it's not really about whether or not parkour should be a competitive sport.  as long as there are some people who think it should be - even if the majority does not - it already has a competitive side to it.  it's illogical to fight that.  the bigger question is, how are we going to go about spreading the word of the original philosophy of parkour in what will likely be the shadow of competitive parkour, when parkour as a competitive sport happens to be far more marketable?  how will we keep the founding principles from being lost?

to me, this is simple.  it boils down to getting on a more personal level with fellow traceurs and traceuses.  that's something the mass media won't have for some time, and it's something we've already built here.  ~laughs~ isn't parkour about overcoming obstacles?  surely as a community, we can keep our message going.

parkour as we know it may live side-by-side to this new philosophy, but I don't feel like that detracts from parkour in the slightest.  let the media and the competition bring in the people interested in parkour, and we can show them that there's more than one way to practice parkour.  let them decide what's right for them.

Mark, to respond to your last post directly:
I think it may be comforting to some here if the media noted that there are different philosophies and opinions of parkour and freerunning - competition VS non-competition, efficiency VS flair, etc., and that the show is emphasizing on one particular philosophy.  would it be possible to maybe use a slightly different term, like "nouveau parkour" or something, to differentiate?  I'm just throwing ideas out there to help soften the blow for some of the others here.
I support your endeavor.

...and I would also like to see this community not scare off future potential traceurs and traceuses with arguments and flamewars fueled strictly by opinion and desire.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 02:52:12 PM by Shaelyn »

Offline Fletcher Hawke

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +5/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2009, 03:42:15 PM »
I think the thing that the "against" people need to realize is this: Without competition, without the risk / reward factor, this is not going to make it to the public eye.

I'm afraid there's a huge logic error here.  If this were even remotely true, none of us would be here now; this forum would not exist.  Making a competition, playing to the spectacle, may be the easy, obvious way to reach the broadest base in the shortest time; but it is far from the only way to come to the public eye.  DB, PK Gen, and Majestic Force seem to do quite well without it.

Quote
I know that you are now saying "that's fine" ... but don't other people deserve to get to see and learn about freerunning? because you ARE smart and found it on the internet does that mean you need it MORE or LESS than some poor kid stuck in front of the TV all day?

"When the student is ready, the master will appear."  
There are two problems with mass exposure in a short time.  The first is that most of the audience will not be ready for what they see.  Especially introduced through spectacle and competition, misunderstandings will abound, which can be incredibly dangerous.  The second is that whatever influx of people there may be to the discipline, there will need to be sufficient instructors to guide them.  Introducing people to the discipline when they are not ready, or when the support network for incoming novices is not sufficient to guide them will do far more harm than good, both to the new practitioners and the discipline itself.

Quote
understand that there will be a competitive format and that it will be on mass media, so suggestions like "don't have a competition" and "don't put it on TV" are really wasted breath, it's past that point. Helpful input will be much more useful.

That's a rather unfortunate position.  I personally believe that parkour may take longer to spread without competition, but that it would progress in a far healthier manner and have greater staying power as the non-competitive discipline it has always been rather than as "the new 'it' sport."  As the decision has apparently been made, please consider that the one "competition" that does not inflame frequent argument among practitioners is Sasuke (Ninja Warrior), which is not, strictly speaking, an actual competition, but rather a challenge.  If there must be a "competitive format," let it follow this example.  No rankings.  No opposition.  No better.  No first/second/third.  No being bumped because someone else was faster or flashier.  Just the practitioner and the course.  Succeed or fail.  If several people succeed, they are all celebrated equally.  If no one does, so be it.

Whatever other forms this partnership manifests, there should be an emphasis on practical application.

"Be strong to be useful."  As I've said before, parkour is movement with a  purpose.  If you want to show parkour in a positive light, if you want it to make something that lasts, show parkour as it applies to life rather than movement for movement's sake.  What sets parkour apart from the extreme sports that it superficially resembles is that it is a means to an end, not an end of itself.  Ignore the spectacle and show the servicemen and women who study parkour as a tool for their professions.  Follow them on the journey of training and delve into how it helps them in their duties.  Showcase working men and women, students, professionals of all walks and how parkour improves their health and contributes to all their activities.

Offline Alec Furtado

  • kicks butt.
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1992
  • Karma: +27/-6
  • Balance.
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2009, 05:16:40 PM »
If there must be a "competitive format," let it follow this example.  No rankings.  No opposition.  No better.  No first/second/third.  No being bumped because someone else was faster or flashier.  Just the practitioner and the course.  Succeed or fail.  If several people succeed, they are all celebrated equally.  If no one does, so be it.
The problem here is... this is the U.S. Even with the abounding PC garbage, "we" are incredibly competitive and I'm pretty sure that would never even make it to the drawing board with today's media.
Water conforms to the shape of it's surroundings. Do not be water. Shape your own life.

Offline Elektrik

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion of APK Partnership with FME and Motion Inc.
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2009, 05:18:31 PM »
winner gets a chocolate bar  ;D