Author Topic: Martial Arts  (Read 15218 times)

Offline Sam Slater

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2006, 03:45:53 AM »
I personally take Korean striking art of Tang Soo Do, Mu Duk Kwon.

Tang Soo Do (pronounced Dong Su Do) is the style that Tae Kwon Do is derived from.  Unlike many branches of Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do is less about sport fighting.  It is thought of as a kicking art, however the kicks that many of the individuals in this thread seem to be referring to when they think of Tae Kwon Do (spinning jump kicks) are not part of the curriculum.  We do self defense techniques which are similar to Hapkido techniques; however they do not get as advanced as quickly as Hapkido techniques do, as Tang Soo Do is mainly a striking art.  Our hand techniques when performing forms and basics are similar to traditional Japanese Karate, however our training for sparring is almost more of a cross between Kempo and Boxing, although this is more likely due to my specific instructor's style of training. Tang Soo Do also incorporates weapons.  Like the forms in Tang Soo Do, the weapons training in our system has both hard Japanese influences and softer and more fluid Chinese influences.

In regards to the notion that all Tae Kwon Do kicks are ineffective and inefficient, I can only hope that you gentlemen are referring solely to the fancy kicking that is seen in demonstrations and in the movies.  Essentially all striking arts have the same basic kicks.  These kicks can be done in slightly varied ways and to various areas of the body, but they are all the same.  While I agree that "softer" arts do tend to conserve more energy if done effectively, I have often found that they are, as one person has already stated, easier to apply if a strike or two is done first to either disorient or distract the opponent.  I am also of the personal mindset that I would prefer to keep my opponent or attacker as far away from my person as I can, as the closer he is, the more weapons he has at his disposal to use against me.  More than likely, ones opponent will get past your feet eventually, but why waist the opportunity to make him less efficient before he gets in closer to you?

A small aside, any studio that does not eventually teach its students how to fall is not a good studio.

Please do not take this as a personal defense of Tae Kwon Do.  I have not been a fan of that particular discipline for some time.  I would like to simply avoid having anyone who is attempting to form opinions on the martial arts having an undue bias against striking arts.

Choosing a martial art is really a matter of preference.  All martial arts essentially have the same goal in mind, they simply take different paths to get there.  Now many people attempt to prove that one martial art or particular style is better than another martial art, however it comes down to the person themselves.  I have not seen one style or even any particular mix of styles that works 100% of the time against all opponents.  If you like to wrestle, try Jiu Jitsu.  If you only like to fight, try boxing or kickboxing or Jeet Kun Do.  If you like to kick, try Tang Soo Do,Tae Kwon do, Wu Shu.  If you like weapons fighting look for a school that does a style that has more weapons in its system, such as Wu Shu.  It also depends if you wish to learn an art that is linear or circular, soft or hard.

Try a little of everything.  Everything has its benefits.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 03:48:09 AM by Disciple »

Offline Sam Slater

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2006, 03:51:33 AM »
You know I always start to write these posts with the intention of being concise and not making another long post that nobody will ever read, but by the time i get done I have another monstrosity like this one on my hands.  Sorry everyone.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2006, 01:19:58 PM »
No worries, I read it.  I obviously am not talking about basic strikes that are common to most martial arts.  I'm talking baout the showier moves that are rather exclusive to TKD.  There are strikes that are exclusive to certain forms of Kung Fu, but they seem to have much more application whereas in TKD, it seems to be exclusively for show.

Of course, I am not saying that any martial art is superior to another.  If nothing else, TKD teaches you flexibility and brute strength and power.  I'm just saying that a lot of (not all of) the moves that are associated as exclusively TKD are inefficient.
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Offline Ken PKChiro

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2006, 04:09:37 PM »
TKD is fun, that's all.  I would agree that its not so much on the effective side.  any martial arts that has you in the air more than your on the ground isn't solid.  anyway, kung fu really depends on which school you go to (this goes for any school really).  though i would avoid muy thai unless you want a broken body that won't survive past 30.  no joke.  they are brutal, and if you ever find yourself in a fight with one, run unless you know your stuff pat.  but besides that, not great for the body.  tai chi doesn't teach you how to use the techniques any more, aikido is good, and kung fu depending on style again.  more body type.  if you want to flow, and play with moving energy around (not metaphysical, im talking force physics type of energy) kung fu is good, if you want strait and direct attacks, aikido is good.

my 2 cents
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Offline Ryan Ford

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2006, 04:38:41 PM »
listen to him^

;)

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2006, 10:44:27 PM »
TKD is fun, that's all.  I would agree that its not so much on the effective side.  any martial arts that has you in the air more than your on the ground isn't solid.  anyway, kung fu really depends on which school you go to (this goes for any school really).  though i would avoid muy thai unless you want a broken body that won't survive past 30.  no joke.  they are brutal, and if you ever find yourself in a fight with one, run unless you know your stuff pat.  but besides that, not great for the body.  tai chi doesn't teach you how to use the techniques any more, aikido is good, and kung fu depending on style again.  more body type.  if you want to flow, and play with moving energy around (not metaphysical, im talking force physics type of energy) kung fu is good, if you want strait and direct attacks, aikido is good.

my 2 cents

Some Tai'Chi schools still teach application.
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Offline CharlesX

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2006, 07:38:25 AM »
You should try Jeet Kune Do (JKD) which was Bruce Lee's style. Its a really good form because it focuses on intercepting and counterattaking. JKD means "way of the intercepting fist" I think. I have a lot of books on JKD and I try to use it when I spar with my friends. If you're hardcore and willing to train a lot I suggest trying it.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles."

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Offline pointman323

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2006, 09:43:41 AM »
im hardcore!! wanna see my kill face?  >:(  <- kill face
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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2006, 02:46:19 PM »
wanna see my kill face   8) <kill face

Offline Andrew Hull

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2006, 05:47:53 PM »
Tang Su Do isn't the origin of TKD, Chang Moo Kwan is the official style of the korean millitary and has is one of the original 3 schools before the 9 fully developed. I wrote my thesis on this.

Eidt: And I just reread that... Tang Su Do and Muk Duk Kwon are both one of the 9 kwan of TKD... Tang su do is not a school of MDK.

edit again: unless you're talking about Tae Soo Do, which eventually became Taekkyon. But in that case moo duk kwan doesn't exist anymore... nor does tae soo do officially. but they've become their own school as Muk Duk Kwan or Moo Duk Kwan but Tang Soo Do was a koreanization of Karate and eventually became Taekkyon and then sumarilly TKD... so... i have no idea what point i'm trying to make.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 06:00:12 PM by ara_v_q »
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Offline Sam Slater

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2006, 04:16:11 AM »
I meant what I stated (Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan).  While I have not done any formal thesis on the origins of Tae Kwon Do, I have had to do research on Tang Soo Do quite often in my martial arts career.  What I should have stated in order to be more specific was that Tang Soo Do is one of several Korean Martial Arts that existed before Tae Kwon Do was officially formed as an attmept to unify these arts into one national martial art.

That being stated, I will not say that you are incorrect, however it seems some of the information that I have gathered from reading book by Grandmaster Hwang Kee, the founder of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan, and from other practitioners of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan and Soo Bak Do Moo Duk Kwan is not the same as what you have just listed.

Tang Soo Do is not a school of Moo Duk Kwan, you are correct.  Tang Soo Do is the art, and Moo Duk Kwan is the style.  Tang Soo Do is the technical aspect, and Moo Duk Kwan is the philosophical aspect.

Post the Korean War, the kwan leaders joined forces and set about formalizing an organization. They named this governing body, The Korea Kong (Tang) Soo Do Association. The term Kong Soo Do was adopted due to the fact that this was the term commonly used to describe Kwon Bop (Karate) in the Korean language.  Thus, several different Kwans or styles practiced the art of Tang Soo Do.  This organization had many internal political problems however, and it was not until petitions from General Choi emerged that a unification under the name Tae Kwon Do occurred.

Grandmaster Hwang Kee avoided most of the unification attempts, however he did change the name of his Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan studio to Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan.  This was during a period of Korean reformation and was done because Tang Soo Do sounded too Chinese and because he wanted to unite the various schools and variations of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan together formally.

As for Moo Duk Kwan not existing, that may be the case in Tae Kwon Do (although I do not think that is the case), bu as you can see here http://www.soobahkdo.com/fed-web/main-page.htm, Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan is still in existence.  When Grandmaster Kwang Kee changed from Tang Soo Do to Soo Bahk Do, technically Tang Soo Do did cease to exist, however many Tang Soo Do Federations loyal to the teachings of Grandmaster Hwang Kee are still in existence today.  Most did not change their name for reasons personal to those particular federation heads.

I appreciate you making me be more specific in my description of the relationship between Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do.  It is not everyday that I converse with someone familiar enough with both arts to understand the specifics of what I am referring to.  If my information is incorrect, I would appreciate links or a bibliography of sources where I can further educate myself.

Offline Flair

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2006, 07:58:38 PM »
I currently take Modern Kenpo, or Kwan Shu. It's a pseudo-american style thats very acclectic, meaning it takes the most efficient out of styles throughout the world. I call it pseudo-american because its founder was American, even though hardly anything taught in it is American. I am what they call Chan BanBu, its 2 below Black, so I've still got about a year to go. I've been taking for 4 1/2 years.

Offline sim_heart

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2006, 12:01:22 PM »
I hear martial arts is a great way to improve on tricking. I need to know what the best one is. Im 17 and I have reached the peek of my tricking....I want to be the best!!!!
successful is wanting it more than everybody else.....

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Offline Rickety

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2006, 01:30:36 PM »
...tai chi doesn't teach you how to use the techniques any more...
Although if you find an instructor who does teach you how to use the techniques, it's pretty fantastic. I sucked bad when I was doing Tai Chi, but my instructor repeatedly emphasized that if you didn't understand the movements from a combat point of view, you wouldn't be doing them right from an exercise/meditation point of view. And thinking about how a movement was not just a movement but a punch radically changed the way I moved (although it would have looked really subtle to an observer, it felt completely different).
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Offline The Unexpected

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2006, 03:04:47 PM »
Here's one for ya.  All martial arts are inneficient.  "The person who will win a fight will be he friend shows up with a gun".

Offline CyanideSoda

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2006, 03:38:11 PM »
That was a retarded post. If you are, getting mugged, or just plain being attacked, most people won't have a gun. Chances are you will never be threatened with a gun in your life. If your paranoid and carry a gun around all the time, your probally, more likely, to get killed by a gun.


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Offline Zeus

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2006, 06:20:38 PM »
I take traditional Hapkido(6 years) and i love it. It centers around the sphere and the geometry of the body to divert an attackers energy into themselves leading to breaks or throws and is employed by the korean special forces. It also teaches of basic punches and kicks rolling and kneewalking. If your interested check out www.hapkiyoosool.com especially some of the videos at the bottom of the video page also since Hapkido is basedd of Aikido I will also recommend that

A couple things to watch for in any martial arts school is make sure everyones belt is tied the same way, that you cant (yes cant) get your black belt too soon (my friend was bragging that he got his black belt in a year at some TKD(not picking on the art, just this school) Belt factory and then i said good you want fries with that) and that they speak the right language, i dont know how many TKD and TSD (not picking on these particularly just the only ones ive seen them in) that are korean martial arts and call thier master sensei. The correct korean words for teacher include sabanim and kwansanim.

Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2006, 11:55:49 AM »
Here's one for ya.  All martial arts are inneficient.  "The person who will win a fight will be he friend shows up with a gun".

Stop talking before you embarrass yourself more.

Offline FireFly

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2006, 02:37:28 PM »
I simply see nothing in TKD that can be effective.  Sure, a few solid kicks can work out.  But TKD teaches so many unnecessary moves, teaches you how to waste your energy and tire you out quickly, teaches you to use moves that are either simple to counter or evade or have no real place in any practical situation.  Jump-kicking an object ten feet up is fine and dandy, but when would you ever need to use that skill?  Grappling is often NOT the most effective thing to do and sometimes you DO need to fight...  But TKD teaches moves that are simply inefficient.  You learn nothing of deflection or energy manipulation.  You learn only to attack blindly.

I have to agree with you. I once watched a TKD class, and saw that they were doing things that would never be good to use. They also do their forms very sloppy, in my opinion, and they don't do it fluently. Fluency in your attacks is very important in fighting. Sure the kicks are good, but kicks aren't really the important things you should look in martial arts.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 02:39:07 PM by FireFly »

Offline CyanideSoda

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Re: Martial Arts
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2006, 03:05:30 PM »
^^, sure base your entire opinion of TKD off of one classes sloppyness. My teature might as well have been a nazi. If we were just a little off he'd freak.


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