Topic: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!

[baki20xx]

Much of modern life seems to be about avoiding contact with the world except in brief, ultra-intense, usually controlled bursts. Nature is too lumpy, too prickly, too hot, too cold, too dirty... So we smooth out little areas, cover it with grass or concrete, and only venture into wild areas for a few days a year... maybe.

So true and so sad...

All we can do is break that trend and try to grab as many people to do it with us as we can.

[Ozzi]

On that note, swimming to china mans hat today

[Esox]

Hi, is this THE Forum in Internet, where most active discussion of Movnat/Methode naturelle -type of training is going on?

If so, I would like to hear your opinion or knowledge on how to measure progress in this kind of training? I know about Heberts 12 tests (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tSFNXC19COC-ZKMlC4S2Vsw&single=true&gid=0&output=html)
But how is progress measured in MovNat? Or are those 12 tests still valid way to measure today?

My own training is sort of mix of Movnat type workouts, some strength training and bouldering quite actively. In bouldering progressing is easy to see, but more difficult in "natural training"..

[Gregg HIPK]

That's a cool version of the 12 tests. It's a little different than Hebert's: His rope climb was for distance [5m = 0 points] and the lifting [overhead press] was in metric [40kg 1 time = 0 points]

I don't know if this is THE forum, but I've tried to put as many MN/ MovNat resources here as I could find.

Measuring progress in MovNat? I'm not sure. That's Erwan LeCorre's copyrighted/ trademarked system, and he has been VERY tight with sharing any information. His site is mostly seminar listings. The closest I've seen is the requirements for the "Expansion" course:

You have some “barefooting” experience

You can run 10 kilometers (a 10k) in under 50 minutes easily (an 8 minute mile pace)

You can easily perform 10 explosive pull-ups in a row

You have some powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting experience and can at least deadlift and squat your own bodyweight and clean and jerk half your body weight

You can hold a well-aligned plank pose for at least a minute, you can do 20 successive walking lunges while maintaining your stability, and you can at least vertical jump up to your knee-level and long jump half your height from a static posture then stabilize your body easily.

You can comfortably swim freestyle and backstroke

You have some martial art or defense experience (i.e. boxing, wrestling)

You can hold your breath at least one minute and 30 seconds

You have no serious health issues that prevent you from performing optimally including injuries that you must work around

Hope that helps!

[Gregg HIPK]

Fuerzas Comando competition in Dominican Rep...

Following the opening ceremony, the competitors will have a few hours to rest before the competition's first event, a physical fitness test. The physical evaluation consists of two timed events where participants have one minute to complete as many push ups and sit ups as they can. Competitors must also complete as many pull ups and dips as possible in an attempt to outlast their opponents. The test will end with a 1.5 mile run.

The competition continues over the next several days. The event will test each team on its weapons marksmanship, aquatic skills, and tactical capabilities. The exercise will conclude with an airborne operation, or "friendship jump," on June 23 and closing ceremony on June 24.

Fitness challenge is a BORE! Sigh... Commandos from 18 nations, and that's the best fitness challenge they can come up with?

Sniper contest sounds way better LINK

Short vid from last year LINK Esp check out the obstacle course and assault maze.

[Derek broussard]

Hi, is this THE Forum in Internet, where most active discussion of Movnat/Methode naturelle -type of training is going on?

If so, I would like to hear your opinion or knowledge on how to measure progress in this kind of training? I know about Heberts 12 tests (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tSFNXC19COC-ZKMlC4S2Vsw&single=true&gid=0&output=html)
But how is progress measured in MovNat? Or are those 12 tests still valid way to measure today?

My own training is sort of mix of Movnat type workouts, some strength training and bouldering quite actively. In bouldering progressing is easy to see, but more difficult in "natural training"..

  This is the most thorough natural fitness forum I have found.  But its not sponsored by MOV/NAT

   The Point of staying Fit through Natural fitness isn't about becoming a " level 7 or 12". 

   The only measure of your fitness should be Your Environment. 

     
 

[Esox]

That's a cool version of the 12 tests. It's a little different than Hebert's: His rope climb was for distance [5m = 0 points] and the lifting [overhead press] was in metric [40kg 1 time = 0 points]

I don't know if this is THE forum, but I've tried to put as many MN/ MovNat resources here as I could find.

Measuring progress in MovNat? I'm not sure. That's Erwan LeCorre's copyrighted/ trademarked system, and he has been VERY tight with sharing any information. His site is mostly seminar listings. The closest I've seen is the requirements for the "Expansion" course:

You have some “barefooting” experience

You can run 10 kilometers (a 10k) in under 50 minutes easily (an 8 minute mile pace)

You can easily perform 10 explosive pull-ups in a row

You have some powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting experience and can at least deadlift and squat your own bodyweight and clean and jerk half your body weight

You can hold a well-aligned plank pose for at least a minute, you can do 20 successive walking lunges while maintaining your stability, and you can at least vertical jump up to your knee-level and long jump half your height from a static posture then stabilize your body easily.

You can comfortably swim freestyle and backstroke

You have some martial art or defense experience (i.e. boxing, wrestling)

You can hold your breath at least one minute and 30 seconds

You have no serious health issues that prevent you from performing optimally including injuries that you must work around

Hope that helps!

Thanks for those. Requirements for Expansion course seems quite hard... But maybe some of those could work as goals also.

12 tests that I linked are from site http://www.methodenaturelledisciple.com/ which seems to be gone now..

[Esox]

  This is the most thorough natural fitness forum I have found.  But its not sponsored by MOV/NAT

   The Point of staying Fit through Natural fitness isn't about becoming a " level 7 or 12". 

   The only measure of your fitness should be Your Environment. 

     
 

Yes, I understand that levels are not the goal here. But when doing this kind of training, I think there should be some ways to see/prove that you are making progress. Of course environment where you are dictates what is required from you and your fitness. But "to be strong to be useful", I don't think it meant just one environment where one would excel. And as as the environment changes (forest/city/sea/rivers etc.), so will the required skills/fitness. Therefore I'm looking for some general enough test set to see if general fitness/skills are advancing or do I have to change my training to bring some qualities up to level with others.

Maybe the original 12 tests is not too bad for that, but I would like to hear your opinions on that (have any of you done the tests?) and what maybe would be good changes or upgrades to those.

[Gregg HIPK]

I've done the 12 tests monthly for over a year. I usually leave out the rope climb, since there's no climbing rope near me. I may try doing the rope pull ups from the spreadsheet you posted.

You don't NEED to say "I'm a level 12, level 24," etc. A good goal needs to have some measure, though. How fast is your 100m dash? 17 sec? Try for 15 next month. etc.

The 12 tests are decent enough. Hebert scattered other tests through his books - hiking, throwing at a target, diving, etc. Other tests that could be useful would be things like vertical jump... or Erwan's requirements for "Expansion"

Some things I've found... The 12 tests are supposed to be done in 1 go - that's rough. I mix up the order so I'm not doing all 4 jumps in a row, all 3 runs in a row. The high jumps are very time consuming - adjusting the marker, jumping, etc. The shot put is the average of both hands Also, don't do the running long jump barefoot into grass... and land on your toes.

[Derek broussard]

 
    I agree that its good to have goals for a work out.
 
    And I do think its fun to test yourself. I like to find random test in health magazines, I do the army pt test, ect.  But I NEVER base my work out on it. Once you start focusing you will start specializing in only those activities and your body will adapt to excel in those but by compromising in other areas.  These may not be HUGE compromises, like not being able to run marathons because you only climb every day. But it will put gaps into your physical abilities

     If you only focus your work out on these 12 test your missing out, I guarantee it.

[naturalninja]

hmmm well what exactly is your goal in training Esox?

to be useful?

to be happy?

to be healthy?

[Esox]

I've done the 12 tests monthly for over a year. I usually leave out the rope climb, since there's no climbing rope near me. I may try doing the rope pull ups from the spreadsheet you posted.

You don't NEED to say "I'm a level 12, level 24," etc. A good goal needs to have some measure, though. How fast is your 100m dash? 17 sec? Try for 15 next month. etc.

The 12 tests are decent enough. Hebert scattered other tests through his books - hiking, throwing at a target, diving, etc. Other tests that could be useful would be things like vertical jump... or Erwan's requirements for "Expansion"

Some things I've found... The 12 tests are supposed to be done in 1 go - that's rough. I mix up the order so I'm not doing all 4 jumps in a row, all 3 runs in a row. The high jumps are very time consuming - adjusting the marker, jumping, etc. The shot put is the average of both hands Also, don't do the running long jump barefoot into grass... and land on your toes.

Interesting stuff Gregg, maybe i just have to give the tests a go and see how I feel about them.
When you say that tests should be done in 1 go, is that one try per test? one high jump, one long jump etc? Or all tests during one day but giving multiple attempts to each?

[Esox]

 
    I agree that its good to have goals for a work out.
 
    And I do think its fun to test yourself. I like to find random test in health magazines, I do the army pt test, ect.  But I NEVER base my work out on it. Once you start focusing you will start specializing in only those activities and your body will adapt to excel in those but by compromising in other areas.  These may not be HUGE compromises, like not being able to run marathons because you only climb every day. But it will put gaps into your physical abilities

     If you only focus your work out on these 12 test your missing out, I guarantee it.

I agree, training is not about the tests. Tests should indicate the general fitness level in some areas that should improve somewhat even though you are not specifically training for it. At least to a certain point, I think that running sprints may improve my 100 m time, liftin stones and logs improves my press etc. Still, enjoying the varied training is much more important.

[Esox]

hmmm well what exactly is your goal in training Esox?

to be useful?

to be happy?

to be healthy?

Difficult questions... I can reason any of those options and all of them are good. In case someone needs me, I want to be useful. I also want to be happy and healthy.. This kind of training (movnat, MN, etc.) would seem to be good for any of those goals? Actually I like to train like this and more or less I'm looking for rational reasoning, why I should do it and why and how it will do good for me. I can list many good subjective things how training makes me feel and how it effects me. But I would also like to see some objective results, something measurable. Otherwise I just might float in my comfort zone and pretend that I'm training hard and well when the reality might be different?

[Gregg HIPK]

Hebert had adults do all the tests in one day. For kids, he allowed it to be broken up a bit.
High jump: I take 3 attempts to make each higher height. I do best of 3 for the 100m run, the shot put, and the long jumps.

I don't base my workouts on the tests. I tried to do that with the running long jumps one month. I found that it took a lot of the fun out of my workout.

I think the MN test is much more complete than Men's Health.

You can float in your comfort zone in any program.

[Esox]

Ok, I did the tests.. 400 m and press in the beginning of the week, others yesterday. Except swimming, I may have learn to swim properly first..
But boy did I suck on almost all of those others too..

100 m 17 s
400 m 1:33
1500 m 7:04
jump for height (no runup) 76 cm
jump for height 96 cm
Long jump (no runup) 227 cm
Long jump 360 cm
pull ups 14
lifting 34,5 kg
shot put (8kg) 576 (r), 454 (l) = 515 cm

That adds up to -7 points without the swims.. Well it's a start I guess..

[Gregg HIPK]

Are you under 18? The target 0 level is for adult males. It's is adjusted down for younger people.

73. For a subject of 16 to 18, normal performance should not be less than the symbol - 1 in each test;
For a subject of 14 to 16, they must not be less than the symbol - 2 in each test;
Finally for a subject of 12 to 14, minimal performance corresponds to the symbol -3 in each test,

They often didn't do the swimming test, or include it in the overall results. I think it's because so many of the trainees Hebert had couldn't swim at all when they first came in. I would still try the water tests, if you can... just to find out where you are.

Your tests use a 400m run, 1:20 = 0. Hebert used a 500m run, 1:40 = 0. Same pace, just a longer distance.

Good news is you aren't severely negative on anything. Work on general fitness, and focus on running fast.

[Esox]

I wish i was under 18... I'm 35. 
Not much of a training background, except for last couple of years. Skinny and weak. But with ok finger strength and motivation to improve in other areas also.
So as you said, general fitness, running fast and good "funouts", that should do it.

[Gregg HIPK]

Short fast runs + climb + jump + lift stuff + throw stuff + martial arts + swim + manual labor + sport/ games/ fun = MN.
I've been looking for ways to help people. "Be strong to be useful, first to yourself, then also to others."

[Gregg HIPK]

My tests were down a bit from last month. +26.95 as opposed to +30.0
My weak points continue to be 500m, 1500m, running long jump and climbing. I run quite a bit, but it's either sprints [which I did ok on] or longer, slower distances.