Author Topic: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!  (Read 51414 times)

Offline Derek broussard

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2009, 08:01:30 PM »
ninja,

 I don't think I understand what you mean by situational vs natural.

 Defense is natural because  when we where wild creatures. We had to defend our food against other tribes, and other animals.


 Gregg,
 My standard is to be efficient in My environment and eventually any environment. It may be a standard, but its hard to grade, and compare. Its also very open ended and will change from person to person..

 My fear that if everyone starts putting standards and grades to MN then its going change the core concept.  And thats getting out of the "zoo human" and evolving away from "homo sapien domesticus"



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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2009, 07:52:01 AM »
i mean that something like dance is quite natural, but will you ever use it to escape or rescue someone?

and running through a concrete city is probably very situational 'cause alot of us live in cities, but not really that natural.

as regards the 12 tests if the 0 value for lifting is 40kg over your head the surely the carry 0 value should have a smaller weight (25kg?) carried over a distance (100m), i wouldn't really consider time a factor in this one, in the same way there is no time limit for the throwing or the lifting
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 07:56:48 AM by naturalninja »

naturalninja

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2009, 12:21:25 PM »
off topic again but ive been looking for the 12 tests with the values from -5 to +15 but i cant find it or any of his books online:( have they been taken down or something?:(

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2009, 12:34:05 PM »
@ Ninja [btw... What's your REAL first name? I feel silly calling you "Ninja"]

http://books.google.com/books?vid=HARVARD32044051103216&printsec=titlepage#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The running is natural. Only the situation [city] is "unnatural".
Dancing can be more or less natural. It would probably be considered secondary at best, like games, sport, and manual labor.

Carry [deadlift] is easier than lifting something overhead [clean and press]. You can start with lighter weight, but Hebert also had people carrying each other. There isn't a time limit for the throwing test, but there is for lifting. Pilou just chose not to translate it. From the test notes, it says there's a one second rest.

If you want to do WEIGHT * DISTANCE I'm not going to argue with you ;D The math is way easier.

@ Derek

The grades and standards were one of the main points of Methode Naturelle. The system it was replacing had only a subjective system. So it's not CHANGING the core concept. It merely defines it. MovNattm may or may not have an objective  rating system. Probably not yet. Erwan had objective requirements to attend his advanced class this summer... hard ones.

How will you ever know if you're efficient? ;D
That's like me saying "I'm a trillionaire. I have over 50 trillion dollars." [true, but it doesn't mean I'm rich! At today's exchange rate it's worth US $0.14]


naturalninja

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2009, 12:53:15 PM »
.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:48:34 PM by naturalninja »

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2009, 01:23:30 PM »
Ok, Ninja...
http://books.google.com/books?vid=HARVARD32044051103216 should give you a "read this book" button. Press it, then scroll down to page 33. If you're still having trouble, let me know and I will try to post the charts.

naturalninja

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2009, 01:53:19 PM »
sorry not there:( maybe 'cause im in Europe?:( wont let me upload screenshot unfortunately:(

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2009, 02:36:48 PM »
Harvard link also connects to Google. I'll post them later today.

turtlekarma

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2009, 03:21:29 PM »
@ Ninja [btw... What's your REAL first name? I feel silly calling you "Ninja"]

http://books.google.com/books?vid=HARVARD32044051103216&printsec=titlepage#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The running is natural. Only the situation [city] is "unnatural".
Dancing can be more or less natural. It would probably be considered secondary at best, like games, sport, and manual labor.

Carry [deadlift] is easier than lifting something overhead [clean and press]. You can start with lighter weight, but Hebert also had people carrying each other. There isn't a time limit for the throwing test, but there is for lifting. Pilou just chose not to translate it. From the test notes, it says there's a one second rest.

If you want to do WEIGHT * DISTANCE I'm not going to argue with you ;D The math is way easier.

@ Derek

The grades and standards were one of the main points of Methode Naturelle. The system it was replacing had only a subjective system. So it's not CHANGING the core concept. It merely defines it. MovNattm may or may not have an objective  rating system. Probably not yet. Erwan had objective requirements to attend his advanced class this summer... hard ones.

How will you ever know if you're efficient? ;D
That's like me saying "I'm a trillionaire. I have over 50 trillion dollars." [true, but it doesn't mean I'm rich! At today's exchange rate it's worth US $0.14]



Gregg is rich, buy a plane and fly your ass down here so we can train lol.  hyper inflation...what is it now in Zimbabwe +1000% a day? 

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2009, 03:56:56 PM »
$50 trillion ZDS [rev 3.0] is unfortunately before the latest currency change. They lopped the trillion off, and the new $50 ZDS [rev 4.0] is what I was basing my USD $0.14 on. This 2008 bill is no longer honored by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. The $100 trillion bill is a collectors item. Mine is basically very cool wallpaper.

Last November they had a 98% daily inflation rate. Basically, prices doubled every day.

The people mostly use the USD or S African Rand now... Fairly stable currencies.

But enough $ talk. Now back to the wonderful world of MN and MovNattm

Offline Derek broussard

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2009, 04:35:01 PM »
well since this is a MOVNAT forum and not a "natural fitness"  im not going to argue about it too much. ..

I understand that has "hard" standards for his instructors and I would hope do all fitness instructor programs.

I understand why  MOVNAT, CrossFIT, P90X etc, all have standards..  because they are a registered fitness "program"


  I didnt think APK was affiliated with MOVNAT or Erwin, and assumed MOVNAT was interchangeable with natural fitness.


 By putting up the Trade Mark (TM) Any post I posted becomes irrelevant as I am not a qualified  MOVNAT instructor.

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2009, 04:50:43 PM »
No, Derek! This is a natural movement sub-forum.
It's not MovNattm approved, or even affiliated.

I'm so not knowing... when you were talking about v8, I thought you meant climbing 5.8... I didn't realize until later that bouldering has its own rating scale, and v0 is about the same as a 5.8...

btw, could you start up a thread in "Going Natural" about orienteering, and offer some basic info?

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2009, 05:00:12 PM »
The full charts are now in the "Physical Education or Complete Training by the Natural Method" thread. That's the book they came from. It will be easier to find the charts there [among 5 posts] than in this thread.

Offline Derek broussard

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2009, 07:49:21 PM »
 
   I know there is little Information on this type Training. But Reading these post it would seem that Herberts and Ewrins are the guideline.  I SAY play, train, Learn (whatever you wana call it)  OUTSIDE  and your experience be a guideline.

  Gregg, you've posted a lot about what "they" suggest..  I would like to here more on what youve learned training outside

Orienteering:  Yah  Ill try to right up something in the next week

Offline JulesFox

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2009, 04:36:43 AM »
Hi, my name is Jules. Anyone on Oahu want to do Natural Method training on a regular basis? The beach training with Ozzi was a lot of fun (and a damn hard workout.) I would like to go train in some unexplored territory and/or explore the concepts in Heberts book (thank you for the translation, by the way.) I'm thinking like a class for people who want to do hard/crazy(safe) stuff outdoors ie. desert running in Ewa Beach/ Cliff diving and climbing at china walls and spitting caves portlock/ Climbing the ocean side of Diamond Head. Am I alone in wanting to do (and doing) these things? I am very inspired by Heberts book and also Le Corre's new take on it.

turtlekarma

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2009, 01:32:55 PM »
Hi, my name is Jules. Anyone on Oahu want to do Natural Method training on a regular basis? The beach training with Ozzi was a lot of fun (and a damn hard workout.) I would like to go train in some unexplored territory and/or explore the concepts in Heberts book (thank you for the translation, by the way.) I'm thinking like a class for people who want to do hard/crazy(safe) stuff outdoors ie. desert running in Ewa Beach/ Cliff diving and climbing at china walls and spitting caves portlock/ Climbing the ocean side of Diamond Head. Am I alone in wanting to do (and doing) these things? I am very inspired by Heberts book and also Le Corre's new take on it.

I'll start training with you once finals are over.  Do you want more of an off trail kind of training?  I can think of several that you might enjoy.  your ideas sound like fun...as long as we keep it generally safe (I chicken out when I have serious doubts), I'm down. 

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #76 on: December 06, 2009, 01:55:51 AM »
Hey Jules... Sounds fun. Too bad I live on Maui. Oh well.

Derek: A few things I've learned over the years... mostly from mistakes :P

Two hours of barefoot training a week don't measure up to someone who's gone barefoot all their life.
Easiest way to progress is like karate hand conditioning: sand, small gravel, medium gravel, large.
Climbing sharp, wet rock barefoot is asking to get cut. Walking on cut feet is no fun.
If you want to do a long hike, and you don't have enough water, decide not to.

If you train by yourself and you screw up, you have to be able to get yourself out of whatever mess you get in. If it's a scrape, no big deal, but when you're in shock, it's hard even to walk straight.

Learning from other people's mistakes is the best way to learn.
Not learning from your own mistakes is the stupidest.

naturalninja

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2009, 02:12:17 AM »
i posted the 12 tests and their ratings on my local pk site, one of the dudes was wondering:

"for the lifting, this may sound stupid but what counts as 1 after the first one, do you have to go, ground to arms straight above head everytime? Or is that just the first time and then go from a standing position with arms locked downwards to upwards? If you can understand that post can you please clarify,"

we presumed you have to go back to the ground and do the whole lift again for each sucsessive one?

thanks:)

Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2009, 03:50:30 AM »
Pilou was bored by that section - Hebert was being super detailed, since this was the area he was testing. So Pilou didn't translate it. So I just took a look at it, and I wish I hadn't ;D

  First: It looks like Hebert's having people do the first part of the lift using bent back. This is stupid form for lifting, as you're using your back muscles for the lifting, and not your legs. It's a good way to hurt yourself. At least that's what I've always been taught. Look for a good video of clean and press or "developpe".
  Second: I haven't been doing those pauses. I've been going from ground to shoulders, mostly using leg strength, then pressing overhead.
  Third: It doesn't look like Hebert is having them bring the iron block all the way to the ground. Of course, I'm using a barbell, so my hands aren't going all the way down to the ground either. I'll generally barely touch the weights to the ground, and go back up on the next rep.

Note there are a couple possible mistakes - I was just going from the Google scan, and it doesn't always make sense. I had to make a couple guesses. It wasn't on important stuff...

512. Regarding the test called the "lift" of the stone (or pig iron) of 40 kg for the measurement of physical fitness and to establish the form of results recognition (Chapter IX 1st part),

The performance scale of this test was established for the key lifts performed under the following rules: Starting position: take the pig down, feet together or slightly separated; immediately stiffen legs keeping the pig below the knees.

The subject raises a pig iron fitted with iron handles. AfTecte This object as a rectangular block. The most suitable length to give it whatever weight, must be equal to the average width of shoulders, due to reach of 60 centim├Ęters +/- 5 cm at most.

1. Raise the pig to shoulder height, chin visible above the pig, raising the trunk without folding the knees.

2. Mark a pause of a second at shoulder height.

3. Raise the pig vertically at the end of outstretched arms without bending your knees and keeping the upper body straight "upright". The pig must stay horizontal, both arms working symmetrically; the feet should not move.

4. Mark a pause of a second, the arms outstretched.

5. Lower the pig to shoulder height.

6. Mark a pause of a second at the shoulder. Lower the pig down below the knees, flexing the trunk without folding the knees.

In adults, I normally train them to lift with two hands weights of 15 to 30 kg at most. The exercise with heavy weight, over 40 kg, should rarely occur.

8. Mark a pause of a second, pig below the knee, the knee still stiff.

Begin a new "lift" as it has been said and go on, but never extend beyond the rest of a second during downtime.


Video: 1 rep clean and press of 502# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJrYPVJ88M That's pretty much the form I use - just not so much weight - And I set it down gently, not drop it on the ground. ;D

I've seen other vids where they just do repeats from the chest, or repeats where they go from the groin to overhead. I'm stupid, maybe. That doesn't seem like the complete motion to me. I'm going to keep going from ground to shoulder, to overhead, to shoulder, to ground. I'll try the pauses. I have a feeling it makes it more difficult. You're not able to keep the momentum going.

Anyway, it's super late. Almost 2 am. I gotta work - so let me know how that all works for you guys.


naturalninja

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Re: MovNat/ Methode Naturelle TALK!!!
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2009, 08:25:29 AM »
thanks you!:D ha its half 4pm over here:)