Author Topic: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?  (Read 6509 times)

Offline FastGuppy

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +13/-9
    • View Profile
Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« on: May 06, 2009, 07:27:56 PM »
Okay, I’m confused. I'm relearning all this shit I found out about exercise, but my knowledge inherit to nutrition is lacking considerably. My diet I think is a joke. Probably because I'm not eating enough. My typical day consist of a bowl of cereal for breakfast, three-four glasses of milk a day, lean meat and some vegetables for dinner, Two things of muscle milk throughout the day, and a protein shake at night (the one on the nutrition page).   

At 6’1 I weigh 170 now and I don’t want to gain anymore than 10-15 pounds of muscle.  My questions are what good protein shakes? What’s a good diet to get on to maintain bodyweight without sacrificing muscle? 

edit: my bodyfat was 8 percent a year ago, now it's 9 or 10. I want to keep it low!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 07:31:02 PM by FastGuppy »
"obsession is a great replacement for talent" -Steve Martin

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 08:11:50 PM »
Before you turn to protein shakes you should really understand your diet and where its lacking.  Whole foods are typically a better source of protein for a variety of reasons and protein shakes should be used once-in-a-while in a pinch or planned as part of PWO, imho.

The best way to get your diet on track can be one of two ways depending on your personality type:
1) The first way is to cut out all foods that aren't "real" and see how you feel.  I explain a great way to do that in "Eating Right: How to get started" which is stickied in this forum.
2) The second way is to stictly log everything that you eat and get a really good idea of the amount of calories you consume.  Get a kitchen scale and tote it around wherever you go as well as a measuring cup (or protein shaker with measurement lines on it) so that you know how much you are eating.  Every time sometihng goes into your mouth, log it.  This is difficult for many people to do but can be very effective.  I logged everything I ate for 13 months straight down to the gram, for example.

The reason these are good steps to take is because there is no "one good diet".  Your body type, activity level and metabolism are going to vary very much from your best friend and maybe even your hypothetical identical twin brother.  If you monitor calories strictly you will see how many calories you take in and how your body comp reacts over time.  If you see an increase in calories and an increase in body fat it means u need to cut back on the food or increase your training intensity, for example.

Hope that helps.

Offline FastGuppy

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +13/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 08:29:57 PM »
 That does help.

So you want me to cut protein powders out? How much protein will I need If I lift and can I get it all from regular foods?

I'm going to try to stay away from breads and eat lean meats for lunch, eggs for breakfast, salad and fish at dinner, and fruit and milk throughout the day. Would this be an okay diet?
"obsession is a great replacement for talent" -Steve Martin

Offline Steve Low

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 5588
  • Karma: +287/-56
    • View Profile
    • Eat, Move, Improve
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 08:43:16 PM »
That does help.

So you want me to cut protein powders out? How much protein will I need If I lift and can I get it all from regular foods?

I'm going to try to stay away from breads and eat lean meats for lunch, eggs for breakfast, salad and fish at dinner, and fruit and milk throughout the day. Would this be an okay diet?


That sounds fine.

Protein powders/shakes are fine..... but don't rely on them to get a lot of your nutrition from. They're SUPPLEMENTS because they should supplement your diet... not be a major part of it.
Posts NOT medical, training or nutrition advice
Site // Overcoming Gravity Book

Offline FastGuppy

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +13/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 05:37:07 AM »


One more thing, which protein supplements should I stay away and which ones can I use?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 05:40:17 AM by FastGuppy »
"obsession is a great replacement for talent" -Steve Martin

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 07:01:34 AM »
This depends on what you need so it is really hard to say when you dont have a good idea of your current diet.  You may already be getting more than enough protein...

That said, I prefer to stick to supplements that are ALL protein so that I don't need to worry about how much carb and fat are in the drink...and I can more closely regulate my diet.  I suggest ON 100% Whey and ON 100% Casein...the carb and fat are minimal and its a lot of high quality protein.

I don't like muscle milk and similar shakes because they are marketed as a drink or meal replacement and I don't need that.  I make my own meals.  If you like to have something that is ready-to-go-full-meal-eat-nothing-else-get-tired-of-the-same-thing-all-the-time then Muscle Milk or similar may be for you.

Offline Alissa J. Bratz

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
  • Karma: +525/-42
  • middle-aged man in mom's basement eating Fritos
    • View Profile
    • wisconsinparkour.com
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 06:38:42 PM »
What is PWO, Chris?
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
as though there were some obstacle in the way;
and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

www.madisonparkour.com

Bowdz

  • Guest
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2009, 08:33:30 PM »
What is PWO, Chris?

I think it stands for Post work out.

Offline FastGuppy

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +13/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2009, 08:54:39 PM »
This depends on what you need so it is really hard to say when you dont have a good idea of your current diet.  You may already be getting more than enough protein...

That said, I prefer to stick to supplements that are ALL protein so that I don't need to worry about how much carb and fat are in the drink...and I can more closely regulate my diet.  I suggest ON 100% Whey and ON 100% Casein...the carb and fat are minimal and its a lot of high quality protein.

I don't like muscle milk and similar shakes because they are marketed as a drink or meal replacement and I don't need that.  I make my own meals.  If you like to have something that is ready-to-go-full-meal-eat-nothing-else-get-tired-of-the-same-thing-all-the-time then Muscle Milk or similar may be for you.

One more thing, which protein supplements should I stay away and which ones can I use?
"obsession is a great replacement for talent" -Steve Martin

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 08:58:26 PM »
This depends on what you need so it is really hard to say when you dont have a good idea of your current diet.  You may already be getting more than enough protein...

That said, I prefer to stick to supplements that are ALL protein so that I don't need to worry about how much carb and fat are in the drink...and I can more closely regulate my diet.  I suggest ON 100% Whey and ON 100% Casein...the carb and fat are minimal and its a lot of high quality protein.

I don't like muscle milk and similar shakes because they are marketed as a drink or meal replacement and I don't need that.  I make my own meals.  If you like to have something that is ready-to-go-full-meal-eat-nothing-else-get-tired-of-the-same-thing-all-the-time then Muscle Milk or similar may be for you.

One more thing, which protein supplements should I stay away and which ones can I use?

How did I not answer your question?  I gave you two supplements and 2 brand names (ON 100% Whey and ON 100% casein - ON is the brand)

What is PWO, Chris?

I think it stands for Post work out.

yup PWO = post workout

sorry, i get caught up in my own acronyms all the time :(

Offline FastGuppy

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +13/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 09:03:22 PM »
? I double posted somehow when I said thanks... Sorry lol. Only thing i asked was how to measure protein intake.
"obsession is a great replacement for talent" -Steve Martin

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 09:11:42 PM »
note the amount of protein in a serving then note the amount of servings.  Multiple protein per serving by the amount of servings.  Add this up for all your foods in 1 day and you have your daily protein intake :D

Offline KC Parsons

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +82/-13
    • View Profile
    • Eat. Move. Improve.
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 05:54:36 PM »
Oh, and I just wanna throw in the amount of protein you should, ideally, be getting.

1g per 1lb of bodyweight is generally accepted as ample amount of protein for an active athlete, perhaps a little more will be called for if you're lifting heavy.

Best of luck! :D

Offline Steve Low

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 5588
  • Karma: +287/-56
    • View Profile
    • Eat, Move, Improve
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 07:54:46 PM »
Oh, and I just wanna throw in the amount of protein you should, ideally, be getting.

1g per 1lb of bodyweight is generally accepted as ample amount of protein for an active athlete, perhaps a little more will be called for if you're lifting heavy.

Best of luck! :D

Average amount.

If you're lifting heavy weights or mass gaining aim for 1.5g-2.0g/lbs. Cutting weight and want to conserve muscle mass same thing. Just make sure to drink lots of water so the kidneys can process well.

I've seen/heard some BBer's going up to 2.5g/lbs to conserve mass while cutting for contests because they lose mass very easily.
Posts NOT medical, training or nutrition advice
Site // Overcoming Gravity Book

Offline KC Parsons

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +82/-13
    • View Profile
    • Eat. Move. Improve.
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2009, 08:24:04 PM »
Oh, and I just wanna throw in the amount of protein you should, ideally, be getting.

1g per 1lb of bodyweight is generally accepted as ample amount of protein for an active athlete, perhaps a little more will be called for if you're lifting heavy.

Best of luck! :D

Average amount.

If you're lifting heavy weights or mass gaining aim for 1.5g-2.0g/lbs. Cutting weight and want to conserve muscle mass same thing. Just make sure to drink lots of water so the kidneys can process well.

I've seen/heard some BBer's going up to 2.5g/lbs to conserve mass while cutting for contests because they lose mass very easily.

Thank you. I'll definitely remember to keep this in mind.

Offline Mike Patella

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Karma: +37/-9
  • Towson, Maryland.
    • View Profile
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2009, 06:37:44 AM »
Oh, and I just wanna throw in the amount of protein you should, ideally, be getting.

1g per 1lb of bodyweight is generally accepted as ample amount of protein for an active athlete, perhaps a little more will be called for if you're lifting heavy.

Best of luck! :D

Average amount.

If you're lifting heavy weights or mass gaining aim for 1.5g-2.0g/lbs. Cutting weight and want to conserve muscle mass same thing. Just make sure to drink lots of water so the kidneys can process well.

I've seen/heard some BBer's going up to 2.5g/lbs to conserve mass while cutting for contests because they lose mass very easily.
Straight from the mouth of my brother (who is a muscle nut mind you) "35g of protein every two hours.  Any more and it'll be like putting too much water in a glass... any less and your body isn't absorbing as much as it can."

Can anyone confirm/deny?

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2009, 06:40:18 AM »
Yep, I'm denying that one.

The protein absorption cap-per-meal is a myth and pretty much nonsense....

Offline Charles Moreland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +225/-24
    • View Profile
    • www.charlesmoreland.com
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2009, 07:07:52 AM »
Actually, there is a decent amount of data supporting the practice of letting your blood AA profile drop and rise significantly to increase protein synthesis. When you consume 35g every two hours (to keep the example), your body will become desensitized (think in terms similar to insulin) and protein synthesis will slowly taper down.

If you want to know more I highly recommend Lyle's protein book.

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2009, 07:13:00 AM »
Actually, there is a decent amount of data supporting the practice of letting your blood AA profile drop and rise significantly to increase protein synthesis. When you consume 35g every two hours (to keep the example), your body will become desensitized (think in terms similar to insulin) and protein synthesis will slowly taper down.

If you want to know more I highly recommend Lyle's protein book.

Interesting...I am going to have to get that book -- its on my very long "to-read" list...

That said, though, Mike mentioned absorption so what I said is still true...though the effects of absorption are loosely related to those of synthesis.  That tidbit is useful to know, though it still may be true that a huge meal can be just as beneficial as many smaller ones.

Offline Alissa J. Bratz

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
  • Karma: +525/-42
  • middle-aged man in mom's basement eating Fritos
    • View Profile
    • wisconsinparkour.com
Re: Diet: Good, bad, and bullshit?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2009, 03:38:11 PM »
Actually, there is a decent amount of data supporting the practice of letting your blood AA profile drop and rise significantly to increase protein synthesis. When you consume 35g every two hours (to keep the example), your body will become desensitized (think in terms similar to insulin) and protein synthesis will slowly taper down.

If you want to know more I highly recommend Lyle's protein book.

I'll have to check that book out too.

Charles, what's a good rule of thumb for putting that AA profile "zig zag" into effect (or is it in the book)? If I'm on a lowish carb/sorta-paleo/kinda Zone-ish diet (e.g. mostly veggies and lean protein, + dairy; few to no processed foods/breads/pastas and minimal sugars), arguably my body would become desensitized to all that protein, right? Or does the zig zag come with sort of an IF type deal? Should I just be waiting longer in between periods of ingesting proteins?
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
as though there were some obstacle in the way;
and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

www.madisonparkour.com