Author Topic: Why so down on flipping?  (Read 11703 times)

Steez

  • Guest
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2006, 03:20:58 PM »
I don't think that Parkour is all about *efficiency* of movement.  often times, there would be a way to get to where you are going by expending less energy than Parkour would dictate, and thus be more efficient.  Parkour is about the *effectivity* of movement, meaning the best balance between speed and efficiency (you usually can't get both)

props to matthew!

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2006, 03:28:27 PM »
I don't think that Parkour is all about *efficiency* of movement.  often times, there would be a way to get to where you are going by expending less energy than Parkour would dictate, and thus be more efficient.  Parkour is about the *effectivity* of movement, meaning the best balance between speed and efficiency (you usually can't get both)

props to matthew!

How about "directness" of motion?
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Asa Liebmann

  • New Jersey
  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: +91/-18
    • View Profile
    • NYParkour
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2006, 03:40:40 PM »
you can be very direct as you walk slowly...

this is veering off subject.

Offline Matthew Menze

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
  • Karma: +17/-7
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2006, 03:47:53 PM »
Wait...Isn't Parkour freedom of travel, vrs Freerunning which is freedom of motion? If so, flip are almost always not parkour, but at worst calling them Parkout is just a mistake of words...Alot of people just assume that "freerunning" is a amaericanized word for "parkour".

Matt
"With my feet upon the ground, I lose myself
 between the sounds and open wide to suck it in, I feel it move across my skin. I'm reaching up and reaching out, I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me. And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been. "

Offline RyanV

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • There are 10 types of people in this world.
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2006, 04:04:33 PM »
I thought i read somewhere that at one time freerunning was a term to describe the term Parkour for non-french speaking people. But since that time the media and peoples ideals have given freerunning a new definition all its own distinctly different from Parkour.
010000110110110001101001011011010110001000100000011011010110111101110
101011011100111010001100001011010010110111001110011001000000111010001
101111001000000111001101100101011001010010000001101100011011110111011
10110110001100001011011100110010001110011

Offline Valigon

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Karma: +4/-1
  • Death to those who oppose me
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2006, 08:20:31 PM »
I dont see why so many Traucers are scared of talk of flips, i mean yeah its not "Parkour" but then again there is no "Real" definition to parkour because to each his own, every person has a differnet experiance with "Parkour" and its hard to give something that is difernt from person to person a "Real" defintion. so what if one guy does a flip and calls it parkour, the fact of the matter is that in HIS mind it was parkour, furthermore isnt it kind of oxymoronic for Traucers to talk about not caring what others think of them, then they go and criticize eachother for calling something "parkour" when they dont aggree with them. kind of like a docter telling you not to smoke cigs, while hes pufing a pipe. Anyway im gona stop now before i start pulling stuff out of my butt to keep typing....

Steez

  • Guest
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2006, 08:49:58 PM »
I dont see why so many Traucers are scared of talk of flips, i mean yeah its not "Parkour" but then again there is no "Real" definition to parkour because to each his own, every person has a differnet experiance with "Parkour" and its hard to give something that is difernt from person to person a "Real" defintion. so what if one guy does a flip and calls it parkour, the fact of the matter is that in HIS mind it was parkour, furthermore isnt it kind of oxymoronic for Traucers to talk about not caring what others think of them, then they go and criticize eachother for calling something "parkour" when they dont aggree with them. kind of like a docter telling you not to smoke cigs, while hes pufing a pipe. Anyway im gona stop now before i start pulling stuff out of my butt to keep typing....

there is a definition for Parkour, dictated by David Belle, who gets to do cool things like that.  http://parkour.net/modules/articles/item.php?itemid=1

Offline Argon

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2006, 09:07:13 PM »
My problem with flips is that there are so many people who, though often they are not primarily traceurs, care about flips much more than other techniques, almost to the total exclusion of other elements of training. Sure, that seems fine, but it really creates problems for themselves and others.

First, the appeal of parkour, to me, is one of ethos. I train, diet, and excercise, not to impress anyone else, but because I want to experience greater things and push myself further. I think alot of true traceurs share this passion, and consequently, we put alot of focus into our training from the ground up. We strength train, endurance train, and drill the basics over and over again. We stretch, warm-up, and eat right, all so that we can give our maximum performance.

When it comes to flips, the appeal seems to be largely logos, people want to try them because of the thrill of succesfully completing the move, and the bragging rights that go with it. The value associated with this is a direct consequence of the real and percieved danger of these manuevers. However, because many people want only to flip succesfully, they neglect other parts of thier training. They put themselves at risk or injury in doing so, and by taking short-cuts in thier training, they make the prgoession appear quick and easy, enticing others to do the same.

I can do all sorts of flips and tumbling moves, but typically I only do them when I'm alone, when I can focus and not worry about other people's perceptions, or my own desire to impress them. The converse of this is, to me, what causes all the trouble.
My promise for the month: three sets of handstand pushups (upto 5 reps now...)

I keep having these dreams that I'm falling.
The strange thing is, when I wake up,
They keep coming true.

Offline klaymen

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Karma: +28/-29
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2006, 11:35:52 PM »
I dont see why so many Traucers are scared of talk of flips

well, do a search in the forums  ;)

it is tedious work explaining the same things over and over again.

Offline Skipper

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2006, 05:02:15 AM »
we arent scared, we are ABSOLUTELY SICK OF EXPLAINING IT.

so just assume we have done it millions of times and do us a favor and not argue over it. ;)

Offline ERI1044

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2006, 06:31:31 AM »
please please please please do us all a favor and READ everything on the front pages before posting on the forums....


http://www.americanparkour.com/content/view/223/270/

edit: flips are awesome!! they're just not parkour...
breathing isn't parkour!! HA, YOU CAN'T BREATH!

Offline Pat Kerby

  • Guenons
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Karma: +4/-1
  • To old to Parkour
    • View Profile
    • www.kerbybrothers.com
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2006, 08:20:29 AM »
Read it....didn't agree.  Since then I have heard David Belle himself say that flips are not really a part of parkour (while he was doing a flip), and since he gave it the name, he gets to decide.  But in the first video I saw of him, he was flipping all over the place.  So I guess he wasn't doing parkour in those videos either.  Whatever you call it, I like it. 
Director of "Essence of The Force" at www.kerbybrothers.com, and "Fightscenes For Motion Pictures" at www.kbproducts.com

Offline Mark Toorock

  • M2
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
  • Karma: +302/-72
    • View Profile
    • American Parkour
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2006, 08:39:15 AM »
Haha. Yes, very sick of it. ;)

I think people are confusing one thing here as a recurring theme:

The APPEAL of Parkour may be different to each person: "I like Parkour because of this and you like it because of that".
Please do not confuse this to mean that Parkour is different for each person. Parkour is a defined thing, there is tons of good (and bad) information on what Parkour is.

I really can't believe people could still think it is "Freedom of movement" - it is not.

Please people, before posting "I thought it was this" or "Isn't Parkour just" ... read "What Parkour Is" on the homepage. If there is a concept in there that is not clear, then please post a question in a well thought out way.

This site is about to see a huge explosion in traffic when District B13 goes National on June 2nd. There will be hundreds of new people (thousands?) who will NEED to be given a good, accurate, concise definiton of Parkour (Parkour is DEFINED by PAWA and David Belle) They may also need a good DESCRIPTION of Parkour, which is where things like "What Parkour Is" fit in.

It will take a lot of effort and patience from the good people of this community to spread the correct message about Parkour, so please, if you don't know the facts, or if you disagree with PAWA's definiton, get it worked out now instead of posting confusing information as if it was fact on here for new people.
Be Useful.
If I don't try to make the world a better place, who will?
Every person has a choice - live by your fears or live by your dreams

Offline Mark Toorock

  • M2
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
  • Karma: +302/-72
    • View Profile
    • American Parkour
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2006, 08:45:10 AM »
Oh, I wanted to add something else to this conversation which will hopefully save people a lot of angst.

Nobody is "Down on Flips". They are just not part of Parkour. This is a nuetral statement, not good, not bad, not happy, not sad, and definitely not angry or argumentative, simply a fact.

I am learning gymnsatics, I love doing flips (confined to the gym for now), David Belle does flips. That doesn't make it part of Parkour.
Be Useful.
If I don't try to make the world a better place, who will?
Every person has a choice - live by your fears or live by your dreams

Offline Skipper

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2006, 09:13:10 AM »
David cooks breakfast occasionally too, but alas, that is not parkour either.

"But skipper, david is the creator of parkour, why is he doing flips and cooking breakfast??? is he allowed to do all of that stuff????"

Why yes, sometimes he takes a few minutes out of his day to not do parkour as well.

we learn something new everyday, knowledge is power kids.

Gearsighted

  • Guest
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2006, 11:21:59 AM »
Well, just so you all know, everything I do, and have ever done is Parkour. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Offline Skipper

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2006, 11:58:08 AM »
but YOU didnt invent parkour... explain that one mr. wizard!

Steez

  • Guest
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2006, 03:32:23 PM »
come on skipper, that's easy stuff.  CLEARLY, gear went forward in time and gained advanced knowledge of very intricate genetic/biological engineering.  he then went back in time and created David Belle.

so you see, he did invent parkour  ;)

Gearsighted

  • Guest
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2006, 03:33:40 PM »
Thank you. I think I did a good job too.

Offline ERI1044

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Why so down on flipping?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2006, 03:52:22 PM »
HAHAHAHAHA this just made my day  ;D
breathing isn't parkour!! HA, YOU CAN'T BREATH!