Author Topic: Calorie Countdown Milk  (Read 4497 times)

Offline Eric Kropp

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
  • Karma: +12/-1
    • View Profile
Calorie Countdown Milk
« on: January 29, 2009, 05:31:49 PM »
I just thought I'd put this out there for anyone who is looking for a better alternative to the overly fatty/processed drinks.  I got this stuff called Calorie Countdown and its made by Hood.  I got it in chocolate and it tastes just as good as regular chocolate milk.  Per cup its 90 calories, 5g of carbs, and 8g of protein, and 3g of sugar.  It's delicious too.

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2009, 05:39:40 PM »
link to ingredients list?

Offline Matt Hein

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • Karma: +14/-2
  • Dallas, Texas PK
    • View Profile
    • Myspace
A bad traceur does a move untill he gets it right. A great traceur does it untill he is not able to get it wrong.

Offline Patrick Yang

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +55/-12
  • Outrunner
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 11:54:01 PM »
http://www.hphood.com/products/prodDetail.aspx?id=577

I didn't see an ingredients list.  It says it contains milk, but I'm pretty sure that's an incomplete list, unless they're making chocolate cows now.

I'm also immediately wary of anything billing itself as a "dairy beverage" instead of using the word "milk" in the name.  But that's just gut reaction; let's see what's actually in this stuff.
Training log.
Train hard, eat smart, and act with honor.

Offline Charles Moreland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +225/-24
    • View Profile
    • www.charlesmoreland.com
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2009, 12:13:59 AM »
Quote
In fact, each 8-ounce serving contains 60% fewer calories, 90% less sugar and 84% fewer carbohydrates than regular chocolate milk.

This tells me it's laden with artificial sweeteners. Why can't you just drink water, tea, regular milk?

Questions you should be asking:

-What is regular chocolate milk defined as? What is the basis of their claim?

-Is regular chocolate milk made with whole milk? If so then 60% fewer calories is easy to explain.

-Nothing can taste the same with 90% less sugar that isn't littered with artificial sweeteners.

It says "dairy beverage" instead of "milk" because it is not milk. Even their plain "white beverage" is not listed as milk because it is not. This is a sweetened drink similar to the "Intense Milk" brand that pumps crap tons of sugar into normal milk. I just looked up the ingredients and this version is made with Sucralose (Splenda). This isn't any healthier than other processed alternatives and is just as bad. They have a clever (Read: Deceiving, lying, misleading) marketing strategy, though. That's for sure...


Edit - Technically it's not lying, but it's this kind of cleverness that keeps society lost in the flood of misinformation.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 12:16:35 AM by Charles Moreland »

Offline tombb

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: +60/-34
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 12:21:59 AM »
yes that's not the ingredient's list.
If you really like the taste more than that of skim milk, it's not terrible although nutritionally it's worse than skim milk.
Personally I love the taste of skim milk, can't stand the taste of 1%, 2% or whole milk (or even worse fresh unpasteurized milk), and I rather get my milk fats from places where it tastes great to me like cheese.

In terms of that drink, I can see why they would not make it easy to see the ingredients. It's made primarily of water, and skim milk, except it has more parts of water than parts of skim milk.
That's mainly why it's lower in carbs (less lactose).
Then they add cream and fats, and some thickening agents (Carrageenan and locust bean gum), and an artificial sweetener (sucralose, which is not really bad but it really seems unnecessary to me since skim milk already tasted great if they didn't dilute to more than double the volume with water etc). Then they added vitamin A&D, and sodium&calcium phosphates to make it look more like normal milk (yet they only add those 2 vitamins and 3 minerals so all the other ingredients are still diluted).
And also a preservative, Acesulfame Potassium, but it's nothing really bad again, just I would still go for skim milk unless you really loved the taste of this way more.

The only puzzling thing about this is that they claim it has the same amount of protein as skim milk, yet I don't really see where they add back more protein, although it could be coming from the fact that it's ultra-filtered skim milk instead of just normal skim milk, which could be more concentrated also since ultrafiltration can remove additional carbohydrates (not sure what else is ultra-filtered out of it =P, again I would go for skim milk)
Even the carrageenan and locust bean gum are polysaccarides so no protein there...

Edit: I looked up in more details the industrial labeling standard for ultrafiltered milk, and it's up to 3 times concentrated, so even if water is the main ingredient in that drink, it's probably just more or less reconstituting milk to its original protein concentration, so I was technically incorrect in saying that it's watered down or highly diluted milk, I was assuming UF milk was in normal concentration and not preconcentrated to 30% its original volume... (stupid technical details of industrial nomenclatures and food labeling  >:()
All the rest I already discussed is the same, the ultrafiltration removes about 60% of the lactose plus other things while preserving most of the proteins, and then they add back thickening agents, preservatives, a few vitamins and minerals lost, plus some fats and cream to make it taste less like skim milk and more like ~whole milk (what a waste for people who like skim milk more hehe)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 12:36:01 AM by tombb »

Offline Eric Kropp

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
  • Karma: +12/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2009, 09:16:15 PM »
I don't drink it a lot or condoning it as a daily drink, but its a nice change from water and tea here and there.  I have a glass every once and a while, and I'm pretty sure its better than going and getting a Hershey's bar when I want something with chocolate

Offline Bret [Soundcrafter]

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +5/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2009, 07:46:58 AM »
yes that's not the ingredient's list.
If you really like the taste more than that of skim milk, it's not terrible although nutritionally it's worse than skim milk.
Personally I love the taste of skim milk, can't stand the taste of 1%, 2% or whole milk (or even worse fresh unpasteurized milk)[1], and I rather get my milk fats from places where it tastes great to me like cheese.

In terms of that drink, I can see why they would not make it easy to see the ingredients. It's made primarily of water, and skim milk, except it has more parts of water than parts of skim milk.
That's mainly why it's lower in carbs (less lactose).
Then they add cream and fats, and some thickening agents (Carrageenan and locust bean gum), and an artificial sweetener (sucralose, which is not really bad but it really seems unnecessary to me since skim milk already tasted great if they didn't dilute to more than double the volume with water etc). Then they added vitamin A&D, and sodium&calcium phosphates to make it look more like normal milk (yet they only add those 2 vitamins and 3 minerals so all the other ingredients are still diluted).
And also a preservative, Acesulfame Potassium[2], but it's nothing really bad again, just I would still go for skim milk unless you really loved the taste of this way more.

The only puzzling thing about this is that they claim it has the same amount of protein as skim milk, yet I don't really see where they add back more protein, although it could be coming from the fact that it's ultra-filtered skim milk instead of just normal skim milk, which could be more concentrated also since ultrafiltration can remove additional carbohydrates (not sure what else is ultra-filtered out of it =P, again I would go for skim milk)
Even the carrageenan and locust bean gum are polysaccarides so no protein there...

Edit: I looked up in more details the industrial labeling standard for ultrafiltered milk, and it's up to 3 times concentrated, so even if water is the main ingredient in that drink, it's probably just more or less reconstituting milk to its original protein concentration, so I was technically incorrect in saying that it's watered down or highly diluted milk, I was assuming UF milk was in normal concentration and not preconcentrated to 30% its original volume... (stupid technical details of industrial nomenclatures and food labeling  >:()
All the rest I already discussed is the same, the ultrafiltration removes about 60% of the lactose plus other things while preserving most of the proteins, and then they add back thickening agents, preservatives, a few vitamins and minerals lost, plus some fats and cream to make it taste less like skim milk and more like ~whole milk (what a waste for people who like skim milk more hehe)

[1] You're a spoiled brat, Tombb.  ;D I'd kill to get my hands on raw milk (it's illegal to sell for human consumption here in Indiana). That being said, I suggest you check THIS out.

[2] Acesulfame-K is another type of artificial sweetener, not a preservative. Minor, but just wanted to let you know.

Offline tombb

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: +60/-34
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 11:39:28 AM »
Bret,
2) Oops, yeah I was parsing through quickly and I am not sure how I could get the two mixed up, I think I saw 'somethingPotassium' and read it as a preservative like potassium sorbate because it already had sucralose (splenda) as artificial sweetener so I wasn't even expecting a second sweetener. But yes you're right Acesulfame Potassium is another artificial sweetener :P

1) Trust me, I envy you for not having tried it, it tastes just foul to me, while pasteurized skim milk has a great taste I always enjoy. And as I said you can have milk fat where it's delicious like as actual butter or in cheese, although I understand it's a matter of taste preference.
About the page you linked, it really makes many claims that are misleading because they are only potentially true in the context of very limited situations provided a lot of disclaimers and additional clarifications that are missing there, plus as you can see there are no sources or references next to each claim which is always a warning sign.

Almost every single statement from there tries to insinuate the wrong conclusions. For example:
"Calves fed pasteurized milk do poorly and many die before maturity." What does that make you think? That they die because there is something toxic about pasteurized milk? There isn't. That they die because it's 'nutritionally' inferior? That's not the reason. Differently from adults, calves and newborn babies don't just need nutrition, they don't have a fully developed immune system and rely on mother's milk to pass on immune factors like immunoglobulins.  Until you can make your own, that can actually make a big difference in your chance to survive diseases on your own as an animal without access to medicines or ways to communicate signs of illness. But as an adult you can already produce all the immunoglobulins you need and more, and drinking some from a different species won't help at all.

Every single claim in that article had that sort of deceptive choice of examples designed to inspire the wrong conclusion in the average reader.  Even the choice of words is deceptive and unscientific, like "Ultra-pasteurization is a violent process"... changing temperature of a liquid in a few seconds is a clever treatment maybe, but I wouldn't describe it as violent unless I wanted to make people feel bad for drinking 'violated milk' or something  ::)
Or claims like "Low-fat yogurts and sour creams contain mucopolysaccharide slime to give them body"... here I have to congratulate them for taking normal biological molecules that play a vital role in all cells in your body as well as being naturally occurring in several foods, and making it sound completely revolting, with people just reading "*muco*-mumbojumbo *Slime*".. :o

Now, if somebody actually did a test having people drink pasteurized milk vs unpasteurized milk and there was some noticeable difference that would be interesting, but as far as we know so far it could even be that you'll have more problems with heart attacks, cancer etc by drinking fresh unpasteurized milk, or more likely that there won't be any significant difference at all.

Most of the outlandish claims in that article are based on taking out of context some weak correlation between things, and you can draw those in all sorts of directions, without them necessarily meaning much by themselves. You can even draw completely opposite or absurd conclusions, say "physical activity is bad because people in the 3rd world (with famine, diseases and civil wars) do more and yet their life expectancy is much lower than those in rich countries (with medicines, food, clean water, etc) that have more sedentary lifestyles"... ::)


So anyways hopefully you see the point I am trying to make, you might want to search for better sources to form a more accurate opinion on the topic, and for each claim remember to ask yourself  "is this difference really relevant in practice?", "is that really the reason/cause or is that an unrelated effect?", "Is this really a bad thing or is it actually a good thing?", "should I really expect to see a great difference by switching and by how much?"

Offline Bret [Soundcrafter]

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +5/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2009, 01:52:12 PM »
Tombb:

Thanks for your input. I'll agree with most of your comments but I think this is still something I'm going to have to look into. I'll post my findings in another thread as not to topicjack ANOTHER one. Thanks again for making me check my facts.

Offline Alissa J. Bratz

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
  • Karma: +525/-42
  • middle-aged man in mom's basement eating Fritos
    • View Profile
    • wisconsinparkour.com
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2009, 09:32:20 AM »
I don't drink it a lot or condoning it as a daily drink, but its a nice change from water and tea here and there.  I have a glass every once and a while, and I'm pretty sure its better than going and getting a Hershey's bar when I want something with chocolate

Your best bet if you want something chocolate is to make your own chocolate milk using the following recipe:

1 cup cocoa powder (unsweetened)
2 cups sugar (I recommend adjusting this down)
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 cup cold water
1 tablespoon vanilla

Combine cocoa and sugar and blend until all lumps of cocoa are gone. Add water and salt and mix well. Cook over medium heat, bringing it to a boil. keep boiling until thick, stirring to keep from overflowing. Remove from heat and let cool. When cool, add vanilla. Store in a tightly-sealed jar in the fridge. Use to flavor milk.

Alternatively, you could reach for a chocolate bar. If you go with a premium brand with a high concentration of cocoa (look for 75% or more), it is far better for you than Hershey's. (You're right that there's not a lot that's good in a Hershey bar). Some brands to consider: Scharffenberger, Valrhona, Lindt (which is probably the least "premium" of the premium brands but you can find it easily in any grocery store), Ghirardelli (same category as Lindt, IMO), and others. If you have access to an artisanal chocolatier in your town (Madison has at least 3... lucky me!), even better. My current favorite is Gail Ambrosius, who makes all her own chocolates in small batches every day using all-natural ingredients and single-origin chocolate from all over the world, in fair trade agreements. She also studied in Europe with the Valrhona family. So, yeah... premium stuff. It costs a kidney, but it's totally worth it, and a little goes a long way, so the cost ends up being the same over time.

In any case, you have a lot more options to get your chocolate fix than you think. And in ways that don't involve the consumption of a "milk beverage". Remember, the more natural something is, generally; the better it is for your body (Exceptions can be found here)

:)
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
as though there were some obstacle in the way;
and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

www.madisonparkour.com

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2009, 09:44:37 AM »
1 cup cocoa powder (unsweetened)
2 cups sugar (I recommend adjusting this down)
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 cup cold water
1 tablespoon vanilla

I use this recipe with 0 sugar -- takes some time to get used to it but once you do its pretty delicious

b5200

  • Guest
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2009, 10:43:09 AM »
No mention of soymilk yet? http://www.silksoymilk.com/Products/SilkSoymilkRefrigerated.aspx#AL1

I may appreciate it more as a not very strict vegan (no eating stuff with cheese or milk if I can see that ingredient, if it can't be seen its too little to care about). 

I doubt any of your milk has fiber ;D

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2009, 01:06:45 PM »
milk not having fiber really isn't a big deal, in my opinion.

Regarding soy....
http://www.westonaprice.org/brochures/SoyAlertTrifold.pdf
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

Anything in excess isn't good so if you are relying on soymilk as a staple in your diet you should be informed.  Not saying that you are, just putting the info out there.

Offline Bret [Soundcrafter]

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +5/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 02:10:40 PM »
Haha. Phytic acid rears its ugly head again...Actually, soy DOES have a relatively high content...

Muse, your recipe looks awesome. I make something similar in single batches (microwaving water? Golden!)

Offline tombb

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: +60/-34
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2009, 05:53:36 PM »
Phytic acid really has more good health effects than potential bad effects (which would only show up in significantly excessive intake), the fact that it chelates a small fraction of minerals while it's active doesn't really matter in practice at all unless you have a diet severely lacking in nutrients and minerals. People in industrialized countries often have the opposite problem actually, with excess mineral accumulation in various tissues (kidney stones etc).

None of those considerations listed in the site Chris mentioned are really an issue in general since soy is such a small portion of an average diet, and if you are taking too much of any one food you will probably run into some sort of problem regardless of the food.  In large quantities, vitamins and lots of other good stuff (beta-carotene, phytochemicals etc) starts becoming increasingly detrimental to your health, while in smaller reasonable doses they are instead beneficial to your health.

I can understand that perhaps those articles were written as sort of a reaction against fads that say you should eat concentrated soy pills as a way to cure all diseases, but they are so concerned with fixing one myth that they end up generating another one by not explaining in detail that all studies agree you see negative effects only in excess and you see no negative effects or even positive effects in the regular doses you would see from normal diets which might rotate in soybeans as much as any other vegetable.

I will agree however that soymilk tastes horrible at least to me ;) but then again some people apparently like that or the taste of tofu etc so obviously that's a matter of taste preference again.

Soy protein isolate on the other hand is not even subject to any of those concerns at all since it's purified, and as such it is an awesome source of protein, while whole soy is a tasty and good legume but you shouldn't expect to absorb its proteins completely due to various natural molecules that decrease or slow down absorption. No big deal again but just keep it in mind when you compute your total protein etc. It's the same as if you were to consume raw eggs, which significantly decrease its absorbtion (except in the case of raw eggs you have a much more larger effect and other problems like avidin blocking absorption of a very high % of biotin, and cooking is such an easy solution to this).

Offline Bret [Soundcrafter]

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +5/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 06:42:56 PM »
And here comes tombb, pwning my knowledge tenfold once again.  ;D

My phytic acid comment was sarcasm, since I'd begun to "clear its name" over in the Grains thread I started.

The biggest problem (I feel) with soymilk is that 1) it's not really milk  :P and 2) additives, namely sugar. Most brands offer an unsweetened product as well, though the only soymilk I've ever tried is Starbucks' proprietary vanilla soymilk, which tastes decent.

I assume you've done some research on soy protein isolate? I understand there may be concerns, though most of the sources raising concerns have been the same ones that brought up phytic acid...hmmm....

Offline tombb

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: +60/-34
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2009, 07:21:28 PM »
I am unaware of actual real concerns about soy protein isolate, which is purified proteins (so free from fibers, tannins, phytic acid, phytonutrients, isoflavones etc).

I often saw people confusing the two (purified soy protein vs whole soy), so I think the only controversy on the subject occurs when people confuse the two.

Its aminoacid profile, nitrogen retention, digestibility and absorption all are excellent and equal or superior to good foods, basically the same or more as eggs and milk proteins (whey, caseins etc), and better than beef, chicken etc. The values differ depending on which indicating measure you use, like Biological Value (BV), Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) etc but in all cases it's essentially at the top of the list with egg whites and whey (it's important again not to confuse 'whole' soy protein, which is lower, with soy protein isolate, which is much higher and what you find in protein powders etc). Plus the ratio of branched chain aminoacids in soy protein powders is also great for muscle growth (pretty much the ideal 2-1-1).

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2009, 07:23:52 PM »
Just like everything else, in excess, soy is dangerous.  In today's society Soy is becoming like Corn because everyone thinks it is so amazingly awesome and healthy that we are on track for a pandemic of soy overconsumption, imho.  

The danger here is people drinking soy milk every day with their cereal that is high in protein (from soy) and then eating soy chips, soy cakes, soy turkey because it is healthy.  I have personally seen this happen to many people.

As said in the past, processing introduces a lot of elements into food that are still widely unknown since we have only been processing (and investigating, for that matter) our food so massively in these types of high heat factories with exotic methods for a short period of time.

As for soy protein isolate - i still think there are inherent dangers to consuming these in mass quantities -- I don't know exactly the danger but so far every food that has been investigated, ever, has shown that if you eat too much of it consistently it results in poor health.  Humans were intended for a diverse diet.

That's all I wanted to keep in mind -- though the WAP documents I sent are a bit "radical" to the opposite end of the spectrum everything in there is true.  They didn't create a myth if you know how to read that stuff, though, i do think someone who is new to nutrition may be really confused.

In short, soy is a great whole food that you should consume if you enjoy it -- lets just not think it is a jesus-food sent to save you and eat it with everything (like we do with sugar...)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 07:26:48 PM by Chris Salvato »

Offline tombb

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: +60/-34
    • View Profile
Re: Calorie Countdown Milk
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2009, 05:07:29 AM »
We definitely agree Chris.

Even in protein supplements I would normally recommend various sources in the same day and for different needs, like whey for fast absorption around a workout, caseins for overnight recovery, and mixtures of proteins from purified soy, eggs, dairy etc for all other times.

I'm always pretty much equally against just picking one food and exaggerating its pros into some sort of must-eat miracle elixir as I am into exaggerating it into a must-avoid evil poison  ;)