Author Topic: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE  (Read 16372 times)

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 03:32:47 PM »
I think instead of doing pushups you should of done wall spins and flips just so they know you're not some criminal, just some college kid out doing acrobatic things.

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 04:53:34 PM »
I talked to my friend who's works for Sonoma County Police and he said that, if it's true (which he is always skeptic), this cop totally screwed up. He thought it sounded a bit exaggerated but the cop was way out of line.

Quote
In a case like that, I would go in and explain what happened to a supervisor. The search issue, being handcuffed and being detained for such long periods of time are all of key importance and all exceeded the legal limits of the law, if in fact they occurred as he says they did. It would be very appropriate to file a complaint. We don't need any more rogue cops making us look like assholes.



Also, he was very happy to see that this didn't become an all-cop bashing thread.
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Offline Kineticstorm

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2008, 05:14:26 PM »
I have had a similar situation happen to me with one of our campus police officers. My friend and I were walking from our car to the dorms at around 11:30 at night when officer badass pulls up and claims that we were going to try to vandalize the property, although we had no tools or spraypaint. He told my friend he could leave, but made me stay for several minutes answering questions,  and repeatedly told me that I had no business on campus, even though I am a student and was on my way to the dorms. He eventually let me go and followed me all the way to the dorms. I told a friend who works in police and safety, and he said the station has received several complaints about the officer, because apparently he likes to try to provoke people into being uncooperative or saying something incriminating, but that he hadn't technically done anything illegal yet. My best advice is to try to avoid any situation where you might run into him, although I doubt he can ban you from campus if you are students there. Still, best not to push your luck.
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Offline Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2008, 06:22:27 PM »
man thank god you don't have my short temper!  you would be locked up!!!  that is way too ridiculous.  i have torn peoples faces off for just calling parkour free walking  :-X ;D   
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Offline RM

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2008, 06:51:10 PM »
I'm just waiting for something like this to happen to me.  The cops in my neighborhood have no life.  My town was annex from a larger suburb and we are so small we don't even need a police force.  But instead, we waste our tax money on a huge police force and K9 unit that does nothing.  They shut down my high school and sniffed lockers for weed for no reason (although they caught about 3 people).  These cops also drive through subdivisions and check to see if anyone has their sprinklers on at night because we are in a drought.  They also stop you for the stupidest thing, like signaling your turn too late.  A friend of my sister got pulled over 3 times in one day (2 times in 30 minutes) for a sudden turn onto the freeway ramp because he didn't realize it was his turn, his passenger not having a seat belt, and suspicions that the driver was drunk.  My sister also got pulled over because the license plate light was out on her car and got a 5 car police escort home.  Yeah, its that bad.
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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2008, 07:12:27 PM »
Quote
i have torn peoples faces off for just calling parkour free walking  Lips Sealed Grin 
Completely justifiable.  Free walking is a scourge of humanity!

Offline Jackson Miller

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2008, 11:22:34 PM »
Ok so I was completely honest with everything I said.  I have realized that I did exaggerate the time now though.  The true amount of time we were handcuffed was a bit over 30 minutes I believe.  It seemed much longer at the time especially because the sun set during that time and the lighting changed drastically.  But looking through my phone records I see that it was about 30 mins.  This still seems unreasonable to me.  As my dad said, a simple, hey don't climb on the walls would have sufficed.  I just want to thank everyone for reading this.  I am now going to try to sit down and reply to individual comments instead of doing it by memory.

Offline Jackson Miller

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2008, 12:15:12 AM »
To:

All those who offer support and sympathize:  Thanks guys (and gals?)

LeoNn:  Wow man that sounds even more out of line than what happened with me.  That would suck for the first time guys if they thought this was a common thing that happens.  I really don't think we could call ahead anywhere though.  My usual training grounds is an area which we have very few run ins with security but they almost always tell us we have have to leave (nicely) when we do.  They say they can't technically allow it.  I would love to let people know and get our meets approved but I just don't see how that could happen.

Animus:  I can find out who the cop is pretty easily as he is on campus and I know what he looks like.  His last name is either Acosta or Basta or something.  Now, I know that what he was doing felt very wrong to me BUT if people could tell me any legal terms I could use to make a stronger point I would REALLY appreciate it.  I mean I don't really know what to say other than that he overreacted.  You say what he did was illegal but can you help me pinpoint what exactly he did that was illegal.  Oh and "Unwarranted search and seizure"?  Is that what its called?  What if he claims he had due cause to search us and my bag?

Justlaxin:  I wrote that he did not actually break my sunglasses or my phone though he was rough.  He did get my stuff dirty and crinkled my papers though.

M2:  I am planning on finding out his name etc. but isn't it illegal for him to write up a report with anything we said in it since he didn't read us our rights?  Also, community colleges on friday evenings are quite deserted so my only definite witness is Colin who was in handcuffs next to me.  Does that count?  Anyways, it does seem that these police stick together and cover each other.  From what I hear they all have similar attitudes.  That certainly doesn't help me out. 

Also, they cant assume kids on a campus doing something mildly suspicious are murdering rapists.  Only to an extent to protect themselves from harm right?  I mean after they checked out our info and heard that I had a class that and just ended and my friend was picking me up and we had been exercising for 15 mins he should have released us right?  We could have run when we saw him driving up if we wanted to and it would have been obvious to any sane person we posed no threat to his safety.

Ozzi:  Thanks man.  I am actually going to have a meeting with the president of my school.  I'm not sure if he remembers my name but he certainly knows me and I have talked to him before.  He is a friendly guy.  I have done stuff for him because my job is literally to represent our school and put it in a good light.

Daniel Kelley:  I can't do a wallflip or a wallspin yet unfortunately but good idea.

Alec Furtado:  Thanks so much man for having your friend read this.  The only thing I exaggerated (and it was an accident as explained above) was that we were actually in cuffs for 30 mins, not 60 as I first thought.  Other than that there isn't too much to exaggerate, I was just trying to communicate how serious this guy was taking everything and Jack Bauer is the first thing that comes to mind.  What would your friend suggest I do?  I would REALLY REALLY appreciate it if you asked him that and also asked if he could point out what specifically this guy did that I could argue as illegal or against standard procedures?  Thanks man.

Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!:  Its not so much that I kept my temper as it was that I couldn't put my feelings into words.  Physically yes I restrained myself.  Verbally though I was just a mix of emotions and literally couldn't say what I wanted to say (though I still would have been respectful).


So, I know I WILL respond to this but I haven't worked out how completely.  I know I am going to talk to the president of Chaffey because I can explain to him the reasons why it was wrong without using legal terminology.  Plus he already knows me a bit and that I am a good student etc.  Somehow a formal complaint will be issued and I would like an apology from the guy.  But I need to know specifically what I am going to say he did wrong legally. 

Now my mom has become almost more worked up about this than I am.  If I hadn't stopped her she would have gone in there immediately and balled them out.  She seriously would do a pretty good job I think and I would like to have her with me when I confront the police so they take me more seriously otherwise what's to stop them from saying "Alright thats it kid, we warned you if you keep this up we can suspend you.  Is that what you want?"  In other words they are holding that blank slip over me.  But do you think it is weird to have my mom help me handle my business?  It seems kinda embarrassing but she just has a way of getting people to take even small matters very seriously when she is pissed. 





Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2008, 05:51:02 AM »
Quote
but isn't it illegal for him to write up a report with anything we said in it since he didn't read us our rights?

Well, the first thing I would do is get the notion of "illegal" out of your head.

The second I would do is decide what it is you want. without having a goal, a complaint, argument, or negotiation is already lost.
example: You want to see him arrested for doing something "illegal" by cuffing or searching you. - This won't happen.
Better example - you want to see that he is written up for misconduct - this could happen with the right support and approach

By knowing what it is you want out of a situation, you can plan your argument / complaint much better. Otherwise, you are complaining with no expected outcome.

You could go to his supervisor and say "he did this, this, and this" and the supervisor would say "OK, what do you want me to do" - and if you don't have a clear goal, the conversation is over and you look like you just wanted to complain, you got to complain, the situation is resolved.

If you really want to hang the guy, then you do need to find out more about exactly what the boundaries are for "proper conduct" and "improper conduct"  - again, don't think of it in terms of "illegal" - it's not like his supervisor is going to arrest him, and it's not like you're going to hire a lawyer and try to sue for him damaging your trust of public figures.

Now, if you find out that what he did was way outside the lines of "proper conduct" - (it seems to me that it was definitely outside the lines, but not by a landslide) then you have to decide what you want out of it, and how you can show your case.
He may have "probable cause" to search your bag - even if for spray paint - he could argue that he was called because you were climbing walls and people usually do that to do graffiti - who (that doesn't do parkour and see the world the way we do) is going to argue with him over that point ??
He can then say "of course I cuffed them on sight, the complaint I received is that they were extremely athletic people practicing the art of escape - I have no chance of catching these people on foot, and one could have had a weapon.

Please don't take this to think that I am on his side, I think what he did was wrong and an overreaction and he is probably a dick. I just want to make sure that if you do want to take action, you go about it in a way that will be most effective to get you the results you want.
The other thing is it might be good to try to start a club at school, then you can train "legally". Look at it this way, if a non-authority figure laughed at you for training or even called you names or even tried to hit you, would you waste your time trying to "prosecute" them somehow, or would you just go on training? What really is the best revenge against this dick - a complaint that probably has a slim chance of having any real world benefit / positive outcome for you, or being able to train on campus?
 


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Offline Cellar

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2008, 10:09:01 AM »
I had almost the exact same experience at my college. I was training with some people at some of our usual spots. One of the spots is behind a building and it has a lot of nice rails so we were there for a while. A security guard for the building came out and asked us if we were skateboarding which we obviously weren't, then we explained what we were doing and he seemed cool with it, but just asked us to leave for liability reasons, which we immediately complied to. Then we walk a couple blocks and a campus come drives up from behind and turns in front of us popping up the curb and on to the sidewalk. Then he jumps out of the car and shouts for us to go over to him. He didn't cuff us but he asked for our IDs and made us line up against a wall as he ran them. Then he gave us our IDs back and said he just put our names into the system so if any damage is found, they know who to contact. Then he said that we were caught on many cameras and got several complaints and that if we were ever seen doing it again, he would "give us trespass" and ban us from all the buildings on campus, even though we're students who pay a ton of tuition. He still hadn't said what law we were in violation of, so I politely asked him what we did wrong. His response was "you were climbing on buildings", then he started talking about how the university gets a lot of property damage. Then he drove off leaving us completely demoralized. So I know how you feel, and I am wondering what to do from here too.
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Offline Vinny Pellegrini

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2008, 09:06:36 AM »
dam man. that shit is crazy. just so you know, he was most def expecting you to retaliate, just so he could flex his stupid fake cop muscles. staying calm was probably the BEST thing you could have ever done. he drove away feeling like a complete deushe. you can count on it :)
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Offline Nick Kelly

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2008, 12:03:42 PM »
The cop was a jerk etc etc.

Looking on the bright side, you've got some pretty decent story telling/writing ability. I would expect it to serve you well if you go into film making. (I loved the "Jack Bauer" stuff lol.)

Offline Brandan Mendenhall

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2008, 12:04:25 PM »
dam man. that shit is crazy. just so you know, he was most def expecting you to retaliate, just so he could flex his stupid fake cop muscles. staying calm was probably the BEST thing you could have ever done. he drove away feeling like a complete deushe. you can count on it :)

*douche  :P

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Offline Eli Kurtz

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2008, 12:23:56 PM »
First of all, that sucks that this happened to you.  Since it did, though, I hope you continue to keep us all updated on what becomes of it all, so that we can all be a little more knowledgeable about how to deal with extreme situations like this.

Offline Jackson Miller

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2008, 10:32:30 PM »
Thanks guys.  I will keep you updated.  I just wanted to know one last thing from all of you.  My mom is adamant that I should not mention or try to describe parkour to them.  She thinks we should stick to the bare facts that the cop went way overboard when we were only climbing a wall.  Of course, I don't want them to get the idea we were "fooling around".  So what should I do?  My mother seems to think mentioning parkour in this situation will only hurt things.  So please, tell me what you think.

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2008, 11:21:07 PM »
I'm thinking that may be the case as well, guessing that they would try to protect him. I don't think trying to explain parkour would do too much good (but maybe after this is resolved and they will be more open to it?). But then you are left explaining what you did/why you did it... maybe you could just say the kind of working out you do involves using obstacles in the real world such as walls.

Just shooting in the dark though so I'm not sure...
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2008, 03:10:56 AM »
Not enough information - did you read my post? What context would you mention parkour in? As an excuse for being there? What would the expected outcome of your mentioning this be? Who would you mention it to?
What else would you be trying to achieve?

If you can't answer all these questions easily and with confidence, then I wouldn't be saying anything to anyone.
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Offline twoshot

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2008, 08:38:02 AM »
you should deffently fill out a complaint. The way he handeld that will get him in some serious trouble from his seargent. He may have had probable cause to search the bag considering you were on private property, granted you werent doing anything illegal, but you were there. I dont know what state your in but here in cali if a cop has probable cause (greater then 50% suspicion that criminal activity is present) then he has the right to search and seize. But the way he conducted the search and how he technically arrested you, which he may say it was a detention. But its a hairy situation because he put handcuffs on you AND moved you...so in most eyes of the legal world that is an arrest. I would deffently file a complaint and just wait for his seargent to chew his ass out  good luck

Offline Vinny Pellegrini

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2008, 10:17:26 AM »
i think mentioning parkour would be a good idea, because as of now they probably think you were trying to break into steal some test scores or something, when in reality your just training your artform,
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Offline Jackson Miller

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Re: INFURIATING AND HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2008, 11:45:39 AM »
Not enough information - did you read my post? What context would you mention parkour in? As an excuse for being there? What would the expected outcome of your mentioning this be? Who would you mention it to?
What else would you be trying to achieve?

If you can't answer all these questions easily and with confidence, then I wouldn't be saying anything to anyone.

Hi Mark.  Yes of course I read your last post, you are Mark Toorock after all.  Anyways, I would mention parkour only as a reason that we were there.  An excuse I suppose but it is the truth.  As I said, we were not fooling around.  That is what I want them to know.  That our intentions were never those of someone who is up to no good.  In a normal circumstance I would explain what we are doing to a curious security guard/property owner.  I have never not explained parkour to someone before if they seemed to think we were up to no good.  The result is usually that we don't get in any trouble, continue to train, and they walk away educated about our discipline.

I am somewhat perplexed now that I think about it though, as to why I wouldn't explain it as I do to everyone.  What would be my reason for not explaining what we were in fact doing?  I definitely would not explain parkour in a bad way if that is what you are concerned about.