Author Topic: cops? trouble?  (Read 10683 times)

Offline stairmasterTodd

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
cops? trouble?
« on: March 29, 2006, 08:46:59 PM »
today i was in the industrial park (where i train for parkour) and me and my friends were doing vaults on a rail and jumping off a 6 foot wall into the grass when some guy calls the cops on us. Now im banned from the industrial park and the cop didnt give me a reason at all lol. He said we were engaging in mailcious activity and tresspassing when the industrial park is public property (the place that we were at was). Has anyone ever had any trouble like this? and should i just go to a gymnastics gym and train there, because this sucks.

Offline Brian Belida

  • doc akh
  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 984
  • Karma: +65/-5
  • OPEN BEAR POSTURE
    • View Profile
    • appropriately untitled
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2006, 09:03:41 PM »
Well, if he says that you must leave, unfortunately you must leave.
But in an event like the the best thing to do is just be polite and as curteous as possible, talk to him and explain. Don't let the man get you down :p
And if that fails, at the end of the conversation just hang your head and proclaim "well, I guess I'll just go smoke some crack." :D

What did he say exactly if you said back to him that this is public property?

Offline stairmasterTodd

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2006, 09:17:02 PM »
he says that im still around private property and if im "hoppin around like an idiot" (<--- exact quote from the pig, *COUGH* cop,) then ill eventually move onto the private property. And so with that we left. i seriously was contemplating on saying something like, "at least you didnt catch me smokin that dimebag!" or something dumb like that. OH and he confinscated our camera for evidence or some property damage. He is returning it tomorrow.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2006, 09:45:30 PM »
Man...  People who've never dealt with cops before... -_-...  If you feel he did somethign that was entirely out of line, you get his badge number and report him.  Explain your case as courteously as possible.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Skipper

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2006, 10:42:45 PM »
He cant just ASSUME that you are going to eventually move on to private property. You can drink beer at 18, 2 inches inside the canadian border, while taunting an american cop on the other side, you can set up a black jack table and gamble right inside the nevada border while asking the california highway patrol if they want to join and realizing, "OH YA, this is out of your jurisdiction!"...... HELL, you can do the hokie pokie right outside the gate of crazy old tom cruise's house!

he cant tell you to move because you were CLOSE to breaking the law, thats enforcement on an uninforcable (sp?.... or is that even a word?) act. unless there was some info that was not presented to you, im pretty sure you can go back and do what you do, then explain to the cop that your intentions were not to enter the un-enterable. ;)

Offline Asa Liebmann

  • New Jersey
  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: +91/-18
    • View Profile
    • NYParkour
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2006, 04:00:07 AM »
If you don't do anything illegal, you won't get arrested.

If a cop asks you to move on, move on. The world is too big of a place to worry about that sort of thing.

Like what people said before: be courteous.

Offline The Fallen

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Karma: +7/-2
  • We ain't got no meatballs!
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2006, 04:07:47 AM »
Haha Akh. "Well guys...lets just go smoke some crack..." lol. I dont know if anyone knew. But Akh is a youth group counselor. Who knew?  ;)

One thing you gotta keep in mind is that its theyre job to keep the peace and be on the lookout for anything suspicious. Since parkour isnt the most well known of things we gotta do our best to represent it by being polite and courteous.

"Were looking for jeff groden thomas...gorden...groden?" haha  :P
Animals should not try to act like Humans, But if i want to act like a dolphin who's gonna F%$^&ing stop me?

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2006, 06:20:35 AM »
If you don't do anything illegal, you won't get arrested.

If a cop asks you to move on, move on. The world is too big of a place to worry about that sort of thing.

Like what people said before: be courteous.

I disagree.  Police officials are theoretically supposed to be PROTECTING the public.  Without probable cause, they cannot prosecute, arrest, or in any way HARASS a person who they only -think- is going to break the law.  Furthermore, you cannot take any premature action.  You cannot arrest a person BEFORE they have committed the crime.  That's like going into Iraq to protect ourselves when they didn't attack us first.  Philosophically and ethically, it isn't a valid means of defense nor is it a valid means of policing.

What I see this as is injustice through and through.  And police have bigger issues to deal with than the -possibility- of trespassing.  Okay, someone complained in fear.  That's perfectly acceptable.  And the cop is perfectly okay to sit there and watch to ensure they're not going to do anything.  But to ask them to leave PUBLIC property when they weren't doing anything wrong?

To hell with courtesy when we're dealing with a blatant disregard for the purposes of policing and law enforcement.  I think any ethics major would agree with me.

EDIT:  That does NOT mean I'm condoning yapping on and arguing pointlessly.  You HAVE to make clear, rational arguments.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Skipper

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2006, 08:13:52 AM »
well, sometimes the DONT have better things to worry about than possible tresspassing. I know cops that do next to nothing, and im pretty sure thats a reflection of every cop in america. hah. Maybe not every cop, but most of them are so bored with their job, that they spend more time trying to hid from their boss than they do actually working. But even though what your doing is NOT illegal, still dont argue. its not the legality that is on the line, its the reputation of parkour  in the eyes of police that we are trying to protect. If you really want to pk there, you can tell them that you cant be kicked out for doing something legal, but if they continue to argue their point, just accept it and move on. its not worth the bad reputation :)

Offline FreeStyleFox

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Karma: +56/-32
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2006, 08:17:29 AM »
Yeah, best way is to play it kool.   8)  I mean one day i was actualy stoped wile setting up a camear for a vault and he was wondering if i was hurt.  In all actuality it was night and I was knelling.  He still stoped me but when I started into an explanation he realy didn't care almost to the point of rudeness.
"If you cannot be a poet, be the poem."  David Carradine
May the flow be with you.  ~~FreeStyleFox

"A title and a few perks dont mean much. It takes nothing but a little thought and time to get your point across in a peaceful manner."

Offline Cliff Boz

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +40/-7
  • "ohfomehxr"
    • View Profile
    • ohfomehxr.com
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2006, 08:31:05 AM »
I kind of agree with what animus just said. If you guys were indeed on public property, and the cop's arguement was that you "might" eventually end up on private property, then simply tell him you won't go onto the private property. As far as confiscating your camera for possible property damage? My question to him would be along the lines of double-you tee eff?! Ask him "what property damage"? Maybe it is a shortcoming on my part, but I fail to see how he could do that to your property.

Our experiences with law enforcement or security are always going to depend on the individual we run into. I've had run-ins w/ cops who really just have sticks up their asses or too much testosterone in their system who really give me troubles. On the other hand I've had cops who think what we're doing is all good and even have told us how to steer clear of the cops who would give us problems for no good reason.

As always, you can't be anything less than curteous and calm w/ security. That doesn't go to say you can't make valid arguements, talk with them, or *politely* question their authority IF you believe that you are being harassed for no legal reason. Ask them to help you understand why they are asking you to leave b/c you might trespass eventually. Ask kindly why he wants to confiscate your camera b/c of possible property damage when there is no evidence anywhere of damages. Have a calm, rational conversation with them and show them that you aren't some dumb kid "hopping around like an idiot," but an articulate young man who can be trusted. That's really all you can do when the man is trying to press you down.

Also: ncparkour.com
North Carolina Traceurs

Offline Flippusmn

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
  • Karma: +29/-20
  • Flippusmn??? ask me then!
    • View Profile
    • http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHParkour/
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2006, 10:32:06 AM »
I actually think that the cop there was being out of line if all you say is true because if all is the case he really can't do anything about it except warn you and if he trys to arrest you or something he won't prevail for you doing nothing because what is he going to say you did, act stupid or something. Just don't get on the cops nerves and be nice but sometimes it is right to dissagree politely. If he has no reason to ban you then you have no reason to leave. You don't really have to mention Parkour to them untill you really need to. If a cop is being mean just to be mean he needs to be put in his place. There are only certain ways and things you can be banned from public proporty for and thats not one.

I have had it before to where there were two cops in cars riding back and fourth trying to catch me doing something wrong because someone had called them and told them I was vandalizing the city property. I politely went up to them and ask why they were roming me and told them what I was doing and they were cool with it. In that case and your case it would have been best to just tell them what you were doing and it might have been just fine.  :)
Parkour can make you or break you, each of which I have experienced. ~Feel the Flow~ "Don't think with your balls, think with your brain." -Houston

Offline stairmasterTodd

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2006, 03:17:56 PM »
i think this cop abuses his power, because he called my school and reported what was happening and what he saw on the tape and i was called down to the office. My principle mr. imbezzi called him an idiot xD. so much for that cops accusation. Its all good and i got my camera back.

Offline The Fallen

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Karma: +7/-2
  • We ain't got no meatballs!
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2006, 03:35:22 PM »
...ok with stairmaster's post there i think im gonna go with Flippusmn on this one...Although he prolly was calling the school to find you and give you your camera and just reported what he saw on the tape and stuff like that. But yeah he was kinda out of line on this one.
Animals should not try to act like Humans, But if i want to act like a dolphin who's gonna F%$^&ing stop me?

Offline Corndogg

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
    • SF Parkour
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2006, 06:20:27 PM »
i did a decent amount of research on this (of course this applies to CA only) but:

Most of the trespass crimes are misdemeanors.  It is unlawful in California to:

- Cut down, take, or destroy a person's timber
- Take a person's soil
- Enter upon another's land where oysters or other shellfish are growing or take the oysters or shellfish
- Tear down a fence, gate, or sign, including a highway sign or notice
- Wilfully dig up, injure, or flood a public or private highway, road, or bridge
- Build a fire on another person's land
- Enter a person's land to injure the property
- Enter a person's land for any purpose if the land is enclosed or signs are posted forbidding trespass
- Drive on another's land without consent
- Refuse to leave a public building, a hotel or motel, or private land
- Ski in a closed area

some other references:

>> http://www.slopost.org/ca_laws.htm

>> http://santamonicapd.org/Information/trespass.htm

>> http://www.photopermit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47

>> http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen&codebody=&hits=20

CHAPTER 12. UNLAWFUL INTERFERENCE WITH PROPERTY
Article 1. Trespassing or Loitering Near Posted Industrial Property - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=552-555.5


TRESPASSING RECAP

How to be "safe" from cops:
- Don't suspiciously "sneak" around.
- Don't run from or avoid authorities, be open and honest.
- Don't damage property or be destructive.
- Don't trespass if there are signs against it.
- Leave immediately when asked.
- Have a clean record; don't give cops an excuse to bust you for something else. This includes not carrying illegal substances, weapons etc.


if youre stopped by the police - http://www.rncprotestrights.org/rights-bust.html


im actually going to work on talking with a cop, explaining what we do, get the rules documented, and then use that cop as a reference if we ever get stopped.
SF Parkour // SFPK - | Website | Forum | YouTube |
Serving the Greater San Francisco Bay Area

Offline Flippusmn

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
  • Karma: +29/-20
  • Flippusmn??? ask me then!
    • View Profile
    • http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHParkour/
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2006, 06:26:18 PM »
Wow that is great work, how long did it take to get all that? If all police stations have a copy of these laws etc. we should be a-ok.
Parkour can make you or break you, each of which I have experienced. ~Feel the Flow~ "Don't think with your balls, think with your brain." -Houston

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2006, 03:49:34 PM »
The only time i a cop came up to me,(he thoguht me and my firends were smoking weed, so he was not being very friendly) i just explainrd parkour to him, told this kid who keep arguing to shut up, was co-opertive, and it turned out he knew about parkour! I just had to call it freerunning :P I'm not saying everyone should be a pushover, but if you have nothing to hide, then its usally better to just swallow your pride, and let them search you or move along. Another good pointer, for those who don't know ALWAYS HAVE YOUR ID, it will make things ALOT easier.

Offline Homer

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2006, 06:43:20 PM »
I'm going to have to disagree. This isn't nazi germany. Am I to expect to hand over my "papers" everytime. One thing I have realized from a personal experience over and over again,since I started pking is what a police state we live in. Carry an ID around all the time, why, so I don't get mistaken for a commie? yea, its easier to sit there and take it but it doesn't mean its right. don't get me wrong, i'm not self righteous. i'd probably be the first to do it.
    The notion that we get harrassed for running and jumping (and i'm talking about level to level stuff not even roof jumping or large gaps) is ridiculous. Its almost like if we're not going somewhere to consume or having a destination, we are looked down at and performing "suspecious behaviour". It ridiculous to have to cram into a gym to look a certain way or go on a pre-planned track to run, that are designed most of the time to go in a circle (f-ing pointless). we've been on this earth for 5 million yrs, (125,000 for homo sapiens sapiens), and we've spent a very small fraction of it trapped moving on roads like they're circuitboards.
    Personally, I don't have any advice. they pretty much got us beat with the liability thing. maybe...move to canada or somewhere where you have rights that you don't need a lawyer to protect for you. or learn your local laws. It also helps being uber paranoid and running away before they notice you, but yea, if they call you out, probably not a good idea to run.

Maybe someone could go to the trouble of bringing up the link to every state's laws on the matter? It could be a really good reference point.

wouldn't it be great to have a lawyer on wheels. who tags along and steps in when the cops butt in.

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2006, 07:14:20 PM »
i was talking about if you actually commit a crime, like trespassing (we didn't know they parks closed at 7!) and you beed to explain that you arn't actually doing anything wrong. If the cop stops you for no reason then thats a different story, but this cop did have a reason, And i still stand by my ID statment. ;D

Offline tinnmann

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: cops? trouble?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2006, 08:10:32 PM »
this why im moving to europe when i am of age to do so