Author Topic: Just started...  (Read 4037 times)

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Just started...
« on: March 20, 2006, 04:22:39 PM »
So I'm doing some physical training to get my body up to it (following the training guidelines on www.parkour.com - Foucan's site) and I've started to drill lands, rolling, wall runs, and tic-tacs...  But on the straight-down lands, I'm finding that it's very difficult to get the technique down right.  I'm jumping from about six feet in the air, so it's not very high.  When I land, I let my knees bend deeply and I slap the ground with my hands and try to keep it as fluid as possible.  Generally, it doesn't hurt on impact at all, but the second I get up, my calves and ankles start to burn with soreness.  I managed to minimize this, but I don't think I'm getting the technique right.  Can anyone give me some pointers, possibly?

As for the other stuff...  I'm rolling from a jump of eight feet and I'd say 60% of the time, i can keep my form enough that it's pretty solid.  Occasionally, I get a bit sloppy, but that just takes more practice, I think.  So rolling isn't a huge issue.  Tic-tacs are pretty simple, though I haven't used them to grab a ledge yet.  The wall run is fine, but i find gripping concrete tends to hurt  alot.  My hands have softened up since I stopped rock-climbing, so I think that's just a matter for callouses.

But the land i'm finding to be the hardest thing to do.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 04:53:49 PM »
well let me tell you its not the height that matters, i strongly suggest that you try from somthing a little lower, maybe 3-4 feet to get your rolls down. And another thing, is that when you land you don't "slap" the ground, its almost like you fall into the landing, make sure to bend at the  knees (try not to go past 90 degrees)  and you  usie your leg muscles to lower yourself  and slowly take away some momentum, then you use your hands, and touch the floor to transfer the rest into the floor. This should be one fluid movment, it takes pratice, and again should be practiced at about 2-3 feet.
I hope this helps, it may not be the best description, but im not good with words, Welcome to APK

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 05:08:20 PM »
Thanks.

I assume it's the same principle of falling in most martial arts where you hit the ground (here, on your back) and let the impact roll off into your hands, and then you fluidly let  your hands onto the ground to transfer the impact there.

But I'm -not- to let my knees go past 90 degrees?  Wouldn't that hurt more?  Right now, I kinda let them bend naturally with the impact and touch the ground with my hands.  And when I do that, they bend far more than 90 degrees (well, depending on the fall).  And I've tried from 3/4 feet, but because it wouldn't hurt whether I do it right or wrong, I can't tell if I'm doing it properly or not.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Asa Liebmann

  • New Jersey
  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: +91/-18
    • View Profile
    • NYParkour
Re: Just started...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 05:13:00 PM »
Yeah, manilla is right on, don't worry about big drops, 6 feet is just too high.

Along the lines of what Manilla said, the basic idea is that you want to take the landing with your muscles, instead of your bones and joints.

To practice, just jump straight up from the ground, and when you come down, try to absorb the impact by bending your legs a little.

A rule of thumb, for training by yourself when you can't have someone more experienced analyze your landings for you: a silent landing is a good one.

Edit after animus's post: The 90 degree theory is founded on a firm factual base. When you put stress or tension on your knees when they are bent at an angle past around the 90 degree area, you are damaging your knees. To get an example, stand up, bend your knees to 90 degrees, back straight, thighs horizontal, and stand back up. Feels fine right? Now do it again, except this time lower your butt all the way to your ankles, as you stand up, you will feel a slight pain, until you reach 90 degrees.  ;D

Also, the 90 degree theory is a theory, and it is not by any means a rule, and it is not applicable to every situation. The more you train, the more you will understand the logic behind the theory.

Enjoy your trainings!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 05:19:41 PM by Asa »

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 05:17:37 PM »
i wasn't describing a roll,  i was describing just a landing, and in the landing, you don't just flop your arms down, you bend at your torso, slighty after your feet hit the ground. So if it was a rythym it wold be 1) you take off, 2) You land ( using the balls of yor feet as sensors, when they touch place the rest of your foot down) 3) bend at the torso and use your hands to disperse the remaining energy. I hope that helps, and maybe a mod will come and explain it better then i can.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 05:19:13 PM »
So I should land on the balls of my feet and then roll my feet back so that they're flat on the ground as I lean my torso over?
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Mark Toorock

  • M2
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
  • Karma: +302/-72
    • View Profile
    • American Parkour
Re: Just started...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 05:19:49 PM »
Well, 90 degrees really depends on your flexibility, if your knee ligaments, quads, hamstrings, calves, etc are flexible, you can (and will) go down to where your thighs touch your calves, basically bottoming out. This is NOT for everyone, some people will incur permanent damage at this level.

As for 6 feet, I don't recommend that as a starting point, and I don't think your method of "I can only tell if it's working if it hurts / doesn't hurt" is the way to go about it.

Even if you are capable of dropping form 6 feet without damage, the only way to really go about that is to work your way up, otherwise there may be damage but not pain, or damage that occurs later in life.

Also, dropping from 8 feet into a roll IS too high based on your statement of "starting out". Again, rolls can be practiced from ground level for a few weeks, then from standing, then from a standing dive, then from a drop, I'd say start with about 2-3 feet, then 3-4, then you can "jump up" in height to what you are capable of dropping from, but the only way to find that out SAFELY is to build up in increments.
Be Useful.
If I don't try to make the world a better place, who will?
Every person has a choice - live by your fears or live by your dreams

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 05:24:53 PM »
Yeah you use your foot as if it was u shaped, instead of landing flat on it. it will help preserve yor kneees, by saving them from the jolt of landing flat

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 05:27:35 PM »
All right, I'll practice the rolls from the ground for now.  As for the lands, I suppose from jumping at a 2-3 level height for now.  Still, I want to make sure that I'm doing it correctly.  I can tell to a good degree when I'm being sloppy from what I believe the proper technique to be, but I'm afraid of learning the wrong technique on the ground and moving up to bigger stuff and being worse off.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 05:30:25 PM »
yeah... thats a good worry, the best thing to do though, is to practice on a small scale, then when you fell ready bump it up a little. like maybe a foot. Bt tommarow practice, and if you still have questions, post them, and someone will srley answer you. (odds are better then i can ;D)

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2006, 05:33:54 PM »
All right.  But when I get up to getting it higher, what happens when I start running into the same problem?  Or if I start running into the same problem?
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline The Manilla Gorilla

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: +40/-13
  • Banana Boat?
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2006, 05:37:04 PM »
well first off lets be optimistic, if (not when ;)) you run into the same problem, no worries, just go back down to a lower height, and keep practicing. theres no shame in drilling the basics, even veterans need to do it.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 05:45:24 PM by The Manilla Gorilla »

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2006, 05:42:25 PM »
Right, right.

I'll try again in a few days (after the soreness and muscle fatigue wears off).  In the mean time, just exercises to keep in shape.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Mark Toorock

  • M2
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
  • Karma: +302/-72
    • View Profile
    • American Parkour
Re: Just started...
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2006, 06:07:51 PM »
Well, would you rather practice at a lower level and run into problems at a higher level, or start at a higher level and run into problems??
Be Useful.
If I don't try to make the world a better place, who will?
Every person has a choice - live by your fears or live by your dreams

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2006, 06:33:04 PM »
I figured that six feet wasn't too high.  I mean, you tend to jump six feet when you're trying to get down from soemthing on a normal basis.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Niroshine

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2006, 07:07:53 PM »
I would advise ground level training for six months so your leg muscles get used to the jumping. They'll get stronger so your landings will become better.

Offline PKintermediate

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +1/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2006, 07:20:46 PM »
Sorry, I haven't read all of the thread, but I'll like to share my info on the landings. When I go to land. I bring my knee's up to fix my posture, and then I bring my knee's back down till landing. When I land I bend my knee's back down almost as if I'm landing on my knee's then I let my hands transfer the rest of the shock to the ground.
Well, I think I can do my landings and rolls right, I just need to combine them.

Do you live in a area close to tallahassee? Then we should run sometime.

Offline Mark Toorock

  • M2
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
  • Karma: +302/-72
    • View Profile
    • American Parkour
Re: Just started...
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2006, 06:57:26 AM »
^^^^ A great example of why not to take advice on the internet.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but you could get someone hurt if you're not sure that you know how to tell someone how to do something.

I'm sure that YOU understand what you wrote, and that it works for you, but that doesn't mean it's a good way to teach someone else, especially without having even read the rest of the thread!!

You're talking about fixing posture, landing "almost like you're landing on your knees" and then letting your hands transfer shock.

I'm sorry, but this is NOT good advice, is incomplete, and if followed could lead to problems.

I'm not trying to tear you apart, but I am going to do what it takes to keep the quality of information available on this site consistently high.

If you'd like to write up something more complete to better explain your technique (I'm quite sure your intentions are good, I'm not trying to discredit you) I'd be happy to look it over, pass it around to a few other people, and turn it into a good helpful article on landing.

Be Useful.
If I don't try to make the world a better place, who will?
Every person has a choice - live by your fears or live by your dreams

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Just started...
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2006, 11:35:01 AM »
No worries.  I understand what was missing from my landings, now, thanks tot he people in this thread.  I'll practice from smaller jumps to make sure I have it down fluid enough before moving onto bigger.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia