Author Topic: Raw meat.  (Read 10497 times)

Offline Muhammad

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2008, 08:27:33 PM »
This one made me laugh:

If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.


On a more serious note, my mother told me when she was young, one of her cousins died from trichinosis. They said at the point of death, her body was so rigid that the only part of it that was touching the bed was her heels and the back of her head. That was from eating undercooked pork. Not a very nice way to go out for sure.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 08:33:53 PM by Muhammad Howell »

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2008, 07:38:00 AM »
lots of scientific advancements and treatments have come along in 40 years though :P

Offline Muhammad

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2008, 08:28:57 PM »
i guess you will need those advancements when you sit down to enjoy a nice juicy wolf steak tar-tar.

*gag*

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2008, 09:12:50 PM »
.....

i train parkour...

i think that puts me in a group alone where i am willing to try something most people wont :P

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2008, 09:39:35 PM »
i guess you will need those advancements when you sit down to enjoy a nice juicy wolf steak tar-tar.

*gag*

          Can you call any cut of meat a 'steak', like 'pork steak'?

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2008, 03:55:41 AM »
i guess you will need those advancements when you sit down to enjoy a nice juicy wolf steak tar-tar.

*gag*

Aside from the fact that most animals we eat are herbivores or omnivores with mostly vegetarian diets (including bears), I'd be rather intrigued as to what a wolf would taste like.
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Offline BobT

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2008, 09:33:04 AM »
If you slowly work to making raw meat a significant part of your diet, after a while would your body become more resistant to the bacteria and pathogens, or am I completely missing the idea here?

Possibly.  If your immune system was strong enough.  If you didn't get a big hit of pathogens all at once.  If you didn't get on of those 'other' pathogens that your body hadn't learned to tolerate.  If your immune system wasn't degraded to to an oncoming cold, etc.

There are people who can tolerate raw meat.  The problem is that you don't know if you're one of those people until you 'survive' for a while.

Really though, there's a reason that only scaveners will eat the meat of carnivores - it's generally not good for you.  The pork problem is a symptom of modern agriculture where farmers, to cut cost, feed 'throw-away' parts of there slaughter to the animals they're raising (which are herbivores and shouldn't be eating meat - let alone parts of the animal that was housed 3 stalls down yesterday...).  Thus trichinosis in pigs, mad cow disease, etc.

If you want a steak tar-tar however, go for it - it's delicious.  Just stick with grass fed beef prepared at a very reputable place.

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2008, 07:20:53 PM »
If you slowly work to making raw meat a significant part of your diet, after a while would your body become more resistant to the bacteria and pathogens, or am I completely missing the idea here?

Possibly.  If your immune system was strong enough.  If you didn't get a big hit of pathogens all at once.  If you didn't get on of those 'other' pathogens that your body hadn't learned to tolerate.  If your immune system wasn't degraded to to an oncoming cold, etc.

There are people who can tolerate raw meat.  The problem is that you don't know if you're one of those people until you 'survive' for a while.

Really though, there's a reason that only scaveners will eat the meat of carnivores - it's generally not good for you.  The pork problem is a symptom of modern agriculture where farmers, to cut cost, feed 'throw-away' parts of there slaughter to the animals they're raising (which are herbivores and shouldn't be eating meat - let alone parts of the animal that was housed 3 stalls down yesterday...).  Thus trichinosis in pigs, mad cow disease, etc.

If you want a steak tar-tar however, go for it - it's delicious.  Just stick with grass fed beef prepared at a very reputable place.

          Can your body ever become 'defensive' enough to take down parasites, such as worms?

Offline Steve Low

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2008, 07:55:54 PM »
Quote
Can your body ever become 'defensive' enough to take down parasites, such as worms?

Your bodies defenses can handle the ones they can detect.... but if it misses some (which obviously does and can happen)...... you know the rest.

Some people have better immune system than others based on genetics. Extreme exposure to pathogenic material, parasites, etc. won't make it better after a certain point and it's surely obviously not going to be "totally immune" like you can get to chicken pox or something like that.

For example, your body can detect and destroy HIV fairly easily when it's floating in your blood (and that's how they do the ELISA test for the antibodies in your blood), but it cannot get rid of all of the HIV because HIV is able to hide and go dormant inside T-cells in your body. Immune response is regulated mainly through a variety of means which aren't necessarily perfect which is why we get sick.

There are people who can tolerate raw meat, BUT I would assume that you or someone, like the majority of us, are not one of those people. If you wanna risk it that's your deal though.
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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2008, 04:37:50 AM »
Honestly, I have to assume that most people can tolerate it assuming it's a fresh kill.  I don't imagine most parasites get onto the meat until some point after the killing.. because, I mean.. we had to eat somehow before we figured out how to cook, right?
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2008, 06:11:29 AM »
we also had a life expectancy of 20-30 years

Offline Kevin Davies

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2008, 08:33:05 AM »
we also had a life expectancy of 20-30 years
Awesome rebuttal

Offline BobT

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2008, 08:36:44 AM »
Honestly, I have to assume that most people can tolerate it assuming it's a fresh kill.  I don't imagine most parasites get onto the meat until some point after the killing.. because, I mean.. we had to eat somehow before we figured out how to cook, right?

Most parasites infect living hosts.  Infections with not fresh meat are usually bacterial (or maggots).  That's why you never see fresh water fish on the sushi bar - the worms are already in the meat...

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2008, 09:37:51 AM »
we also had a life expectancy of 20-30 years

Add in medical advances, and you got probably around 50.  I'll take it.  I work with Medicare, and y'know.. this whole getting old shit and living to 100 is really a drain on the economy, especially considering Medicare starts covering at 65 (as does SSA)..  This isn't self-sustaining and can't continue working unless we move that age up much higher (nowadays, a 60 year old is still quite young and able!)  I think I'd rather be cold in the ground before I have to watch my kids financially take care of me when they're 20.  ;)  (And yes, that's what I'm doing for my parents now.. and they probably have forty years left, at least!)
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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2008, 12:11:17 PM »
Lets shy away from politics please!

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2008, 12:45:08 PM »
Did that count as politics?  I was just making a statement about reality.  Apologies!

Point is...  living beyond 60 isn'tw orth it, anyway, so I'll enjoy what I can.  Advances in medical science just make us live longer, but does nothing for our quality of life.  Red meat all the way.  >_>..

(This is an extremely hyperbolic statement and does not reflect the actual views of the poster.)
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Offline Muhammad

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2008, 05:35:03 AM »
Honestly, I have to assume that most people can tolerate it assuming it's a fresh kill.  I don't imagine most parasites get onto the meat until some point after the killing.. because, I mean.. we had to eat somehow before we figured out how to cook, right?

How does trichinosis infection occur in humans and animals?

When a human or animal eats meat that contains infective Trichinella cysts, the acid in the stomach dissolves the hard covering of the cyst and releases the worms. The worms pass into the small intestine and, in 1-2 days, become mature. After mating, adult females lay eggs. Eggs develop into immature worms, travel through the arteries, and are transported to muscles. Within the muscles, the worms curl into a ball and encyst (become enclosed in a capsule). Infection occurs when these encysted worms are consumed in meat.

[the worms and their egg-cysts are present in the fresh meat]

« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 05:36:46 AM by Muhammad Howell »

Offline David Glass

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2008, 09:24:31 AM »
Look up "raw pork and coke" on YouTube.  You'll never eat pork again, and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from. 

That was a hoax. The guy owned up to it.

          Ha.  I've seen like 5 videos on it, and even though they all fast forward a good 2 hours, I figured that the combined videos were decently valid because the "worms" looked similar in every video.

          Howell, why is pork more dangerous than beef?  Is it because we're accustomed to eating rarer/raw beef and FDA restrictions are easier on pork, or does it have to do with the certain viruses/bacteria that attack pigs?

Pork meat contains a naturally present parasite which we cannot digest and oftend lodges in the brain. I found a link with more info on this:

http://www.youqa.com/diseases-conditions/2476-youqa.html

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Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2008, 01:01:40 PM »
I saw an article on Mercola for raw meat and all it's "glory," basically stating that no other animal cooks their meat and humans are still animal. And while I might start entering some steak tartar in my diet, it just doesn't seem logical from the view point to me. While from a scientific standpoint we may still be animal, no other animal has obtained the skill the to create fire.

Personally I feel there's not enough good research out there and I'm rather picky about how my meat is prepared and handled. Too much of it is processed now and a lot of short cuts are taken that would make me question the quality.

Offline Muhammad

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Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2008, 05:38:03 AM »
classic statement:

"Four hundred degrees for ten minutes will kill all bacteria known to man and make all food safe to eat. Larva from parasites are cooked. The temperature can be as low as boiling or two hundred and twelve degrees for thirty minutes to kill bacteria and yeast in all food. If the food has gone bad first the flavor may not be good enough to eat. It is best to wash off the salmonella slime then cook the chicken."

so make sure y'all cook your spoiled and/or worm infested meat properly before eating it LOL