Author Topic: Raw meat.  (Read 10498 times)

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Raw meat.
« on: May 19, 2008, 09:35:02 AM »
In Vietnamese cuisine, there's a soup called pho and it involves raw slices of beef being submerged in the broth, cooking slowly in it as you eat...  I've taken the habit of just eating the raw beef.. wondering if there's any serious repercussion of that or if there's any real benefit, either.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 12:38:01 PM »
Raw meat was kind of phased out of western culture within the last 50 years or so...mostly due to "panic" created by "medical advancements" that identified pathogens and bacteria that live in raw meat...

Up until the 1970's or so, it was still fairly common for classy restaurants and night clubs to offer Steak "tar tar" as opposed to rare or well done, which meant the steak was to be served raw.  Also, one could go into their local diner and order raw chop meat quite readily, seasoned with pepper and salt and eat to their hearts content.

Repercussions include the risk of food poisoning and other food-borne pathogens and parasites (like tapeworms).  The cooking process greatly decreases micronutrient contents in all foods as it causes many vitamins (which are coenzymes) to change form and become useless.  It also decreases the integrity of macronutrient content thereby decreasing protein absorption rate of the meat.

Either way there are negatives, but if you trust your meat source (i would trust a local butcher more than Wal*Mart, for instance) then there shouldn't be too much of a problem with raw meat.  Just be safe about it.  Overall though, the potential negatives involved with eating raw meat are far more drastic than the negatives involved with eating cooked meat.

Offline Alissa J. Bratz

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
  • Karma: +525/-42
  • middle-aged man in mom's basement eating Fritos
    • View Profile
    • wisconsinparkour.com
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2008, 04:33:56 PM »
As Chris mentioned, it depends where you are getting your meat from. I love eating steak very rare, but will only do so if I am at a many-star restaurant, paying top dollar for my steak. Or if I am at home, I will cook my steaks medium-rare unless I have deemed it a special occasion and purchased the steaks from one of our small boutique butchers here (or directly from the farmers at our Farmers Market). Those I "cook" rare.

I do this because while I love a very rare steak, nausea is my Kryptonite. So I avoid any kind of food-borne creeping crud like the plague. I can handle quite a bit of pain, and quite a bit of discomfort, but the slightest bit of nausea completely disables me.

In essence, most of what you can catch from raw meat is, as I understand it, not fatal (the recent E.Coli beef recall notwithstanding), but it will make you hideously miserable. So it depends on how much you're willing to risk tolerating for the experience of eating raw meat.
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
as though there were some obstacle in the way;
and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

www.madisonparkour.com

Offline BobT

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Karma: +20/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2008, 07:57:38 AM »
What they said, with the following caveat: Tolerance for bacteria is is the gut of the consumer.  Some people have a much greater tolerance for food borne pathogens than others.  If you're careful and it seems to be working for you, enjoy.  There's nothing quite as good as a nice steak tar tar (except maybe sushi...).

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +5/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2008, 02:30:15 PM »
          I understand what you are all saying and I too have gained a liking or raw beef after home cooking rare steaks, but still, make sure your steak is of really good quality.  I'm not sure about steak or chicken, but the FDA DOES approve of worms/maggots in pork.  Look up "raw pork and coke" on YouTube.  You'll never eat pork again, and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from.  I eat food that's been out all night all the time because neither throwing up or diarrhea really disturb me too much (it's almost always Staph), but I am not getting any parasites over something like that.

Offline Charles Moreland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +225/-24
    • View Profile
    • www.charlesmoreland.com
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 04:23:35 PM »
Look up "raw pork and coke" on YouTube.  You'll never eat pork again, and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from. 

That was a hoax. The guy owned up to it.

Offline Patrick Yang

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +55/-12
  • Outrunner
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 04:40:54 PM »
Training log.
Train hard, eat smart, and act with honor.

Offline Muhammad

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1903
  • Karma: +146/-57
  • London, UK
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 04:53:19 PM »
eating raw pork is extremely dangerous regardless of the hoax of pork and coke. beef would be far safer.

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +5/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 06:37:25 PM »
Look up "raw pork and coke" on YouTube.  You'll never eat pork again, and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from. 

That was a hoax. The guy owned up to it.

          Ha.  I've seen like 5 videos on it, and even though they all fast forward a good 2 hours, I figured that the combined videos were decently valid because the "worms" looked similar in every video.

          Howell, why is pork more dangerous than beef?  Is it because we're accustomed to eating rarer/raw beef and FDA restrictions are easier on pork, or does it have to do with the certain viruses/bacteria that attack pigs?

Offline Muhammad

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1903
  • Karma: +146/-57
  • London, UK
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 08:57:55 PM »
generally, the types of pathogens found in pork are more harmful than those found in beef, specifically the parasites they carry. that probably has something to do with their diet. pigs are omnivores and scavengers, whereas cattle are herbivores.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 06:46:25 AM »
Keep in mind that humans are inherently scavengers, as well.  The problem is that the genomes of humans and pigs are VERY similar... almost any disease that affects them will affect us, too.

I don't eat pork, though, and eating raw pork sounds even more disgusting.  Hell, I eat duck fetuses and wouldn't touch raw pork.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline BobT

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Karma: +20/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 01:19:55 PM »
Hell, I eat duck fetuses and wouldn't touch raw pork.

... OK ...  ???

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +5/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 08:43:39 PM »
Keep in mind that humans are inherently scavengers, as well.  The problem is that the genomes of humans and pigs are VERY similar... almost any disease that affects them will affect us, too.

I don't eat pork, though, and eating raw pork sounds even more disgusting.  Hell, I eat duck fetuses and wouldn't touch raw pork.

          Might as well assume that eating humans isn't very healthy, either.  I heard they taste like pork (no joke).

Offline Muhammad

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1903
  • Karma: +146/-57
  • London, UK
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 08:58:10 PM »
humans are nasty, and carry all types of diseases. *gag*

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +5/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2008, 12:47:31 AM »
humans are nasty, and carry all types of diseases. *gag*

           The sad part being that's not even a joke.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
  • Karma: +146/-44
  • The Invisible Man
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 04:28:19 AM »

          Might as well assume that eating humans isn't very healthy, either.  I heard they taste like pork (no joke).

Sorry.  I didnt' mean to imply that pork wasn't healthy.  I meant to imply that it's gross.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Chris Salvato

  • Moderator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Karma: +327/-64
  • Eat. Move. Improve.
    • View Profile
    • Chris Salvato
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 07:17:23 AM »
if you're goal is weight loss, pork is pretty horrible, too - fyi

Offline Yixin (pronounced ee-shin)

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
  • Karma: +8/-6
  • I am Yli
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 10:54:23 AM »
I've had raw pork before. It's not that bad. But then again, I'm absolutely insane when it comes to eating meat, so don't listen to me.
"Madness.  (Sparta, etc.)"-Graham Hughes

Offline Muhammad

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1903
  • Karma: +146/-57
  • London, UK
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2008, 08:45:31 PM »
What is trichinellosis?
Trichinellosis, also called trichinosis, is caused by eating raw or undercooked meat of animals infected with the larvae of a species of worm called Trichinella. Infection occurs commonly in certain wild carnivorous (meat-eating) animals but may also occur in domestic pigs.

What are the symptoms of a trichinellosis infection?
Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, eye swelling, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation follow the first symptoms. If the infection is heavy, patients may experience difficulty coordinating movements, and have heart and breathing problems. In severe cases, death can occur.

For mild to moderate infections, most symptoms subside within a few months. Fatigue, weakness, and diarrhea may last for months.

How soon after infection will symptoms appear?

Abdominal symptoms can occur 1-2 days after infection. Further symptoms usually start 2-8 weeks after eating contaminated meat. Symptoms may range from very mild to severe and relate to the number of infectious worms consumed in meat. Often, mild cases of trichinellosis are never specifically diagnosed and are assumed to be the flu or other common illnesses.

How does infection occur in humans and animals?
When a human or animal eats meat that contains infective Trichinella cysts, the acid in the stomach dissolves the hard covering of the cyst and releases the worms. The worms pass into the small intestine and, in 1-2 days, become mature. After mating, adult females lay eggs. Eggs develop into immature worms, travel through the arteries, and are transported to muscles. Within the muscles, the worms curl into a ball and encyst (become enclosed in a capsule). Infection occurs when these encysted worms are consumed in meat.

Am I at risk for trichinellosis?
If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.

What should I do if I think I have trichinellosis?
See your health care provider who can order tests and treat symptoms of trichinellosis infection. If you have eaten raw or undercooked meat, you should tell your health care provider.

How is trichinellosis infection diagnosed?
A blood test or muscle biopsy can show if you have trichinellosis.

How is trichinellosis infection treated?
Several safe and effective prescription drugs are available to treat trichinellosis. Treatment should begin as soon as possible and the decision to treat is based upon symptoms, exposure to raw or undercooked meat, and laboratory test results.

Is trichinellosis common in the United States?
Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During 1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.

How can I prevent trichinellosis?
Cook meat products until the juices run clear or to an internal temperature of 170 o F.
Freeze pork less than 6 inches thick for 20 days at 5 o F to kill any worms.
Cook wild game meat thoroughly. Freezing wild game meats, unlike freezing pork products, even for long periods of time, may not effectively kill all worms.
Cook all meat fed to pigs or other wild animals.
Do not allow hogs to eat uncooked carcasses of other animals, including rats, which may be infected with trichinellosis.
Clean meat grinders thoroughly if you prepare your own ground meats.
Curing (salting), drying, smoking, or microwaving meat does not consistently kill infective worms.


Source(s):
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/...

Offline bjkpersonal@aim.com

  • Patas
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +5/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Raw meat.
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 04:52:39 PM »
What is trichinellosis?
Trichinellosis, also called trichinosis, is caused by eating raw or undercooked meat of animals infected with the larvae of a species of worm called Trichinella. Infection occurs commonly in certain wild carnivorous (meat-eating) animals but may also occur in domestic pigs.

What are the symptoms of a trichinellosis infection?
Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, eye swelling, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation follow the first symptoms. If the infection is heavy, patients may experience difficulty coordinating movements, and have heart and breathing problems. In severe cases, death can occur.

For mild to moderate infections, most symptoms subside within a few months. Fatigue, weakness, and diarrhea may last for months.

How soon after infection will symptoms appear?

Abdominal symptoms can occur 1-2 days after infection. Further symptoms usually start 2-8 weeks after eating contaminated meat. Symptoms may range from very mild to severe and relate to the number of infectious worms consumed in meat. Often, mild cases of trichinellosis are never specifically diagnosed and are assumed to be the flu or other common illnesses.

How does infection occur in humans and animals?
When a human or animal eats meat that contains infective Trichinella cysts, the acid in the stomach dissolves the hard covering of the cyst and releases the worms. The worms pass into the small intestine and, in 1-2 days, become mature. After mating, adult females lay eggs. Eggs develop into immature worms, travel through the arteries, and are transported to muscles. Within the muscles, the worms curl into a ball and encyst (become enclosed in a capsule). Infection occurs when these encysted worms are consumed in meat.

Am I at risk for trichinellosis?
If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.

What should I do if I think I have trichinellosis?
See your health care provider who can order tests and treat symptoms of trichinellosis infection. If you have eaten raw or undercooked meat, you should tell your health care provider.

How is trichinellosis infection diagnosed?
A blood test or muscle biopsy can show if you have trichinellosis.

How is trichinellosis infection treated?
Several safe and effective prescription drugs are available to treat trichinellosis. Treatment should begin as soon as possible and the decision to treat is based upon symptoms, exposure to raw or undercooked meat, and laboratory test results.

Is trichinellosis common in the United States?
Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During 1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.

How can I prevent trichinellosis?
Cook meat products until the juices run clear or to an internal temperature of 170 o F.
Freeze pork less than 6 inches thick for 20 days at 5 o F to kill any worms.
Cook wild game meat thoroughly. Freezing wild game meats, unlike freezing pork products, even for long periods of time, may not effectively kill all worms.
Cook all meat fed to pigs or other wild animals.
Do not allow hogs to eat uncooked carcasses of other animals, including rats, which may be infected with trichinellosis.
Clean meat grinders thoroughly if you prepare your own ground meats.
Curing (salting), drying, smoking, or microwaving meat does not consistently kill infective worms.


Source(s):
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/...

          Phew.  That makes me feel a lot better about my regular diet of medium-rare steak.  :)