Author Topic: Why spread Parkour?  (Read 8196 times)

Offline misstanyamae

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Re: someone please explain this to me
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2008, 09:03:37 PM »
The more awareness, the less likely you are to be bothered for practicing.

30 years ago, if you saw a guy running in a park, you'd probably think he just did something bad. Nowadays, he's just jogging. That's because, by comparison, few people exercised at all, and "Jog"? WHat on earth for?

This of course is a personal view. If I didn't know about Parkour, and I saw a couple of 15 y/o vaulting, I'd probably think they were punks looking for trouble (seriously). Now, if people knew it was a discipline, that required structured training, a state of mind and awareness, it would be more likely to cause respect and admiration, perhaps as martial arts are seen today... or what would martial arts be today had it not been because Bruce Lee made it famous?

There's that, and the fact that you are more likely to encounter people who share your views and with whom you can practice


This is a little OT, but your post made me think of Anchorman where he's telling them about taking up "yogging."

Anyway...
Sometimes I tell people, sometimes I don't. It depends on how enthusiastic I feel that day. I'll tell someone if I think both the discipline and they will benefit by joining.
I'm not compelled to spread it, but I don't really keep it under wraps. I have informed a lot of people about parkour. There was a lady looking for fun ways to work on ".....strength.....cardiovascular fitness.....flexibility.....balance." Right up her alley!
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Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: someone please explain this to me
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2008, 01:54:53 PM »
btay's response is exactly what a lot of us don't like to see.
Exactly. That was the point.

Why turn parkour 'mainstream'? “Obesity is the most common nutritional disorder in the developed world, and the second most preventable cause of death after smoking.” Dr. Jennifer Zebrack, Medical College of Wisconsin. And it's prevented by eating properly and exercise.

Parkour for the masses? I like to call it sub-parkour: A watered-down, lower impact, less extreme version of parkour. You've got the QM, the balancing, the climbing, some of the jumping, leaping, vaulting, bar work, small precisions. Most of the fun, hopefully none of the pain.

Let's face it: people don't exercise, because they don't like it. Running and jogging aren't much fun. Weight lifting can be repetitive and boring. Parkour doesn't need equipment - other than enough clothes to keep you from getting arrested, and probably some shoes. Little kids can do it. Overweight office workers can do it. It uses the entire body. And it's fun.

It can be structured, or unstructured. You can spend hours in intensive training. You can toss in some foot placement practice in walking from the couch to the fridge. Methode Naturelle if you want.

Parkour philosophy? I think it's half-developed in the minds of some fairly young French guys. [Belle, Foucan, Yamakasi, etc.]. We get it as catch-phrases, slogans, and sound bites. "Be strong to be useful." "Live and endure." It's still changing, and it's not really written down. What is written is often badly translated, taken out of context, or not clearly thought/ expressed in the first place.

Can it be written down and still remain 'alive'? Williams Belle seems to think not: "I do not want to have this experience, and just write it in a book, it would become a dead experience! I want it to be alive! I want people to use it, to live it and to experience it."

Offline Alex Melusky

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2008, 04:02:28 PM »
i dont think that any traceur/traceuss wants the discipline to die out. thatis why we spread it :P
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Offline Nick Kelly

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2008, 05:00:34 PM »
Personally I don't think its "Spread parkour or don't spread parkour." Parkour has no problem spreading on its own. I think the real question is do you want to actively spread parkour. My answer is definitely yes.

If people do not try to actively spread parkour, parkour's image will be formed by the wrong people--those who go out and sensationalize parkour.

Offline Stav Bendor

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2008, 05:24:36 PM »
I must say I respectfully disagree with the view that there is no philosophy in parkour or that it is pseudo-philosophy. I understand the skepticism of philosophy in parkour guessing that it comes from reading about philosophy submitted by people with little credibility in the subject, as in forums, etc. Which is precisely why I suggest going to the founders and experienced people for this matter. Look and listen to the Yamakasi along with other very experienced and skilled traceurs and I think you'll see some philosophy. What about the view that we are all students and can all learn?

"Another thing I would like to note is some words I exchanged with Laurent when I first met him the day before. I told him I was here to learn everything that I could from those who were more experienced than me. He said thank you and then explained to me that we can all still learn something from everyone. If I had anything to teach him, he would love to learn it as well. The mindset that we are all students is a great one to have. When we think we are the best or that we have learned enough, our progress becomes stagnant and we fail to keep growing." -That is taken from To Learn, To Grow by Ryan Ford (Demon)
"On Plato's scheme we are all students, ideally engaged in a cooperative pursuit of truth and wisdom." Taken from http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Teac/TeacReid.htm

Or this article regarding human potential and transformative practices http://parkourgenerations.com/articles.php?id_cat=2&idart=16#def

Alas, this is neither the time or place to have this discourse. Perhaps we can all meet at the Parkour Generations Expo in Ohio and be able to discuss this subject more with some very experienced traceurs present.  ;D Also, I would like to note I do not have any official or professional background in philosophy and my views are subject to change over time, seeing as I am currently just a junior (senior next year) in high school, which is why I try to use credible sources.

That's off-topic, so to contribute to the thread...
Reasons to spread parkour:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4001097277208720031

Dangers of spreading parkour, or why it's important to spread correctly (like Nick said, who's comment appeared while I was typing):
http://parkourgenerations.com/articles.php?id_cat=2&idart=30
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Offline Nom

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2008, 09:27:48 PM »
In Plato's scheme there should only be 10,000 people; we should be killing infants. In Plato's scheme 10 year old boys are sent off to the countryside :P. I have no doubt that he was an interesting guy, but what this has to do with parkour directly has yet to hit me. You could argue that the philosophy of parkour has something to do with always learning, but again, that's not a philosophy. You can't just spout off states of mind and offer them as a philosophy. If I eat only bread and cheese, my mindset is that of a simple man. Is being simple a philosophy? No. When David Hume attempted to tidy up the realm of philosophical thought from the Middle Ages to 1600, he approached the task with the mind of a child. The way he went about it was hardly a philosophy, it was the answers derived from his path that became his philosophy.

The article was very nice, but explained nothing about philosophy again. So far what I've gathered about this Parkour Philosophy is this:

It's Empiricist and Rational, kind of a mix. It has a vague idea of "individual progression." (into what? the self? sounds like metaphysics based on physical training.) Apparently it's revolutionary because it's so open to everyone. There are allusions to "freedom," which I suppose can mean both in the sense of being free of external and internal constraints. Shall we even bother moving on to free-will from here? What does parkour say about that?

With only that level of detail, how can I make any positive claims that it even exists at all? It's rough, honestly. So please, if you can link me to something do. Nothing about this should be considered inflammatory, I don't mean to push buttons or shove people into defensive postures about it. But everything I hear and have heard is so incredibly vague, I see people walking into parkour and magically being gifted with this insight into some parkour philosophy they can't ever explain to me and it just doesn't make sense. I too like to believe that what I do has an innate purpose. You can use the children excuse for that, it's natural to run around on stuff. What I think I've understood is that every action, every movement you perform teaches you more about how your body moves. Reactively, in your environment, you learn how your mind works in conjunction with your body. You understand why you default to certain techniques. You learn to understand what holds you back from something and then objectively you can address it. This still doesn't seem so much a philosophy as a point of view.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 09:33:28 PM by Nom »
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operation_jetpack

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 11:19:05 AM »
I think one of the problems with philosophy of parkour is that it isn't clear what it aims to answer, if there is anything to answer, period. Philosophy traditionally tries to answer problems such as the mind/body relation, free-will, personal identity, God, what is justice, etc. Any philosophical speak I hear regarding parkour tends to be pseudo-eastern philosophy; I hear a lot of stuff which gives parkour philosophy a bit of a spiritual touch which means its going to be vague! Like Nom said, it's pretty vague and appeals to even vaguer things such as freedom! What? Physical freedom? Political? Spiritual? Just too many questions left unanswered with parkour philosophy!

But this does relate to the topic at hand! I originally posted about the philosophy of parkour given as a reason to spread it, but felt that the philosophy isn't strong enough to do such a thing! So I think it may be safe to say at this point that trying to get the word out to share the all enlightening philosophy of parkour isn't a good reason... So that can't be why people are so passionate about this!

The other reasons that I've seen so far are pretty much to be accepted, and then I tried to maybe turn that into something a little more plausible. That it's not so much spreading parkour, but just sending a message out that all of these social boundaries on how we should act in public are silly since there is no true human nature! But I think that's stetching it, and most likely not what people have in mind when they get featured in the local news (though maybe M2 has something to say on this bit??)

Just acceptance in general doesnt seem very good to me. It makes the PK community look like a bunch of teenage high school girls who care what others think of them. Honestly, most people aren't going to bother or care when they see us running around. Sure they may think it's strange... But maybe they'll stop and ask! And then you have security and police, but it's their job to worry about such things. As long as we're respectful, I really doubt they'll have a problem with us.

And then we have the comparison to the skating community and how no one likes them. But that's just because the skating community is generally comprised of a bunch of hormonal and rebellious teenagers who feel the need to call others chodes! The problem started with them - they didn't have respect for anybody. The PK community is a little different, from what I see, we're pretty mindful of others and public property. Don't forget TK's painting experience in Lisses (sp) after all! And the Leave no Trace thing too.




The reason I find the passion to spread parkour to be a little odd is because I can't see why the PK community can't be satisfied! People will come and go on their own... We really shouldn't care about it. What we should care about is parkour itself, and practice it as much as we can! Why can't we be content training with a few friends and meeting up for some big jams?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 11:23:00 AM by operation_jetpack »

Offline james2610

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2008, 01:04:28 PM »
my idea is spread parkour properly, with the full concept and the discepline. or dont spread it at all

Offline Stav Bendor

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2008, 01:05:03 PM »
Nom that post was very informative. I think I understand what you are trying to say about the aspect of philosophy the way it is defined, like I mentioned I have not researched or learned philosophy yet. Maybe philosophy is just a word people use because its a well-known word and seems to work. Whatever ideoligcal thing it is I definitely enjoy and believe in what can be acquired through parkour, as long as it is positive and/or contributing to my improvement. Perhaps, it is not that a “parkour philosophy” exists, but that parkour is an optimal host for philosophy. The idea of philosophy in parkour as opposed to philosophy of parkour. Or it could be all this stuff that some of the community classifies as philosophy is just thinking and ideas. I can't really tell for sure, but with time I hope to expand my knowledge in this subject and hopefully contribute to this area.

Anyhoo, operation_jetpack I'm not sure if you watched the video I posted or not (that being Jump Westminster by Julie Angel), but I believe that it shows reason to actively spread parkour to help others. I don't think many people really have acceptance in their mind when it comes to spreading it, but more to legitimize it. The hope is not to be accepted by random people off the street but by official institutions such as universities, and hopefully to achieve what is shown in Jump Westminster in many other places. Also, maybe the philosophy isn't strong enough to spread, but there is so much positivity in parkour that spreading some ideas is a legitimite reason. Why be content training in my own little world when I can help improve the community around me?
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Offline Gregg HIPK

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2008, 01:22:38 PM »
[Jump Westminster is one of my all time favorite pk documentaries. Thanks for posting it.]

Sebastien has a bunch of philosophical slogans at www.Foucan.com. There's more, but this is enough for a start. I don't agree with all of it, but I'm including it here for your reading pleasure.

Freerunning is the art of expressing yourself in your environment, with no limitations.
It's not about being beautiful, it's about feeling and being connected.
Deeply influenced by martial arts, the philosophy behind it is to unify body, spirit and environment.
It can be compared to moving like an animal or being fluid like water. [Home page]

Freerunning Philosophy
Freerunning is an evolution. Move like an animal. be fluid like water or find your own balance with a certain philosophy. This is the path of the Freerunner. Be focused within yourself more than the outside world.

The most important Freerunning advice is to follow your own path, your intuition - Make progress step by step. Don’t forget to find the path towards your own balance - Your own rhythm is essential to enjoyment and understanding Freerunning”.

Sébastien believes in the concepts of:
No violence
No violence, no destruction! Be focused on Passion and Creativity

No competition
Do not seek a prize, don’t compete against others! Competition is an illusion, where only the winners are remembered and losers forgotten you can learn from it, but it’s not The Way. In the Freerunning philosophy there is no Loser. The journey is more important than the goal.

No group
Just be one community, we can share with others, some people have more experience but we are all different and you need to find your own path.

No chief
No Leader, follow your way!
People can inspire you and you should respect them, but you have to follow your way!


Freerunning Lifestyle

Life is full of obstacles and challenges - to overcome them is to progress.
The more you Freerun, the more you gain.
Understanding the philosophy of Freerunning is to look further than just the simple move or a performance.
Internalize the philosophy.
Find the best balance for yourself.
Improving is more important than being the best.
Use the environment to develop yourself and to find your weaknesses.

operation_jetpack

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2008, 12:19:25 PM »

Anyhoo, operation_jetpack I'm not sure if you watched the video I posted or not (that being Jump Westminster by Julie Angel), but I believe that it shows reason to actively spread parkour to help others. I don't think many people really have acceptance in their mind when it comes to spreading it, but more to legitimize it. The hope is not to be accepted by random people off the street but by official institutions such as universities, and hopefully to achieve what is shown in Jump Westminster in many other places. Also, maybe the philosophy isn't strong enough to spread, but there is so much positivity in parkour that spreading some ideas is a legitimite reason. Why be content training in my own little world when I can help improve the community around me?


yeah i watched it a little while ago  8)

Jaycee123

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2008, 12:31:35 PM »
I agree with you sir  Mr. Jetpack. As traceurs we should focus on oneself and how better we can apply certain scenarios to our training, stop worrying about others coming along to train and such. In my opinion parkour is not for everyone. In the past (which is why this post may seem tension related) I have trained at least ten other people and they all stopped parkour for reasons such as work, school, girlfriends. When if those things were faced to me, i do attend school, I continue to do parkour! To some it may seem as a hobby or past time so they wont really want to "look into" what parkour really is. It saddens me that so few are actually motivated to get up and run in my area. Plus I have asked others to join in here and there saying its an effiecient form of movement and they threw in my face this: "So is taking a car I dont feel like risking my life just to jump around like a fool". It may be just that people at the location at which i reside are ignorrant who knows. All i know is that i love to train alone, i understand the general concepts of pk and it is my passion 100+ percent!!!

~jaycee~

Offline Kyle Rudolph

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2008, 07:38:21 AM »
I agree with you sir  Mr. Jetpack. As traceurs we should focus on oneself and how better we can apply certain scenarios to our training, stop worrying about others coming along to train and such. In my opinion parkour is not for everyone. In the past (which is why this post may seem tension related) I have trained at least ten other people and they all stopped parkour for reasons such as work, school, girlfriends. When if those things were faced to me, i do attend school, I continue to do parkour! To some it may seem as a hobby or past time so they wont really want to "look into" what parkour really is. It saddens me that so few are actually motivated to get up and run in my area. Plus I have asked others to join in here and there saying its an effiecient form of movement and they threw in my face this: "So is taking a car I dont feel like risking my life just to jump around like a fool". It may be just that people at the location at which i reside are ignorrant who knows. All i know is that i love to train alone, i understand the general concepts of pk and it is my passion 100+ percent!!!

~jaycee~

Yeah man. I totally get you. When I started PK I got a bunch of people into it. Like 20. But a lot of them just quit after two week because they got "bored" and just didn't want to commit. It isn't for everyone. There are probably about 7-9 truly dedicated people around here that Parkour. Personally I don't know how I ever lived without it.
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Jaycee123

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2008, 09:01:08 AM »
I agree with you sir  Mr. Jetpack. As traceurs we should focus on oneself and how better we can apply certain scenarios to our training, stop worrying about others coming along to train and such. In my opinion parkour is not for everyone. In the past (which is why this post may seem tension related) I have trained at least ten other people and they all stopped parkour for reasons such as work, school, girlfriends. When if those things were faced to me, i do attend school, I continue to do parkour! To some it may seem as a hobby or past time so they wont really want to "look into" what parkour really is. It saddens me that so few are actually motivated to get up and run in my area. Plus I have asked others to join in here and there saying its an effiecient form of movement and they threw in my face this: "So is taking a car I dont feel like risking my life just to jump around like a fool". It may be just that people at the location at which i reside are ignorrant who knows. All i know is that i love to train alone, i understand the general concepts of pk and it is my passion 100+ percent!!!

~jaycee~

Yeah man. I totally get you. When I started PK I got a bunch of people into it. Like 20. But a lot of them just quit after two week because they got "bored" and just didn't want to commit. It isn't for everyone. There are probably about 7-9 truly dedicated people around here that Parkour. Personally I don't know how I ever lived without it.

Yea brother true that and even if I do find someone who is slightly commited, what if we dont have the same views. Cause i happen to take it very serious and the others were like wow, why take jumping around like a monkey serious. It made me mad and in the end i stopped running with them. And another case where there was a guy who did it ocasionally, then he got a car and stopped running so frequently. Its whatever. i love training alone its more tranquile and allows me to see self-faults!

shadow1234

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Re: someone please explain this to me
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2008, 02:45:04 PM »
if i tell people about it they dont care about the concept of parkour they just wana get on with it which i think is a bad thing. Some people just laugh at parkour aswell becuase they dont understand why you should kong something and not just jump over it which is much simpler. I think these people suck  ;D

I've said this alot before but I'll say it again. You don't kong over things you could easily jump over. Just speed vault that. Kongs are for things are to high for you to jump over.

shadow1234

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2008, 03:16:40 PM »
Personally, the whole spreading parkour thing to me seems like nothing but self righteous activism. I personally don't care whether there is a community or not. It's cool, but completely unnecessary. I actually prefer this to be an underground movement because it remains purer that way. Acceptance is a terrible argument because you shouldn't need that. Trying to save America from being fat is kind of weak too. Parkour is probably one of the more demanding disciplines if practiced properly so I can't see why any obese person wouldn't move on after a while. Its more related to that person's mindset and personality than parkour itself. I don't agree with the human reclamation thing either because the most natural thing to do for humans is walking.

I won't even get into the philosophy stuff since it has been pretty much debunked already.

Sorry if I sound so blunt, but I would prefer that this community stay true to parkour instead of turning to this into some charity foundation; not that I believe that there is anything wrong with helping people. There are plenty of other institutions for that.



Offline thehoodedsanghelian

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2008, 07:55:23 PM »
This is how I think of it.  Parkour for me isn't just a physical activity.  It's a way of life, and that includes everyday discipline, attitude, respect for others, self improvement and discovery, and more.  Applying my life's challenges to the discipline of Parkour allows me to overcome them and grow stronger in all aspects of my life.  So why spread Parkour?  Frankly, I think the more traceurs we have in this world, the more stable our communities would be.  Maybe some of the mean cops would be friendlier if more people in their districts were respectful, well-forged people driven by the traceur spirit.  If Parkour finds its way to an individual, catches his interest and drives him to shape up his life, then Parkour has done good for this world, and spreading it to others would only increase this good.
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Offline Ozzi

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2008, 04:56:07 PM »
Because we are gonna take over the world and we need as many people as we can.  ::)
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operation_jetpack

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2008, 06:19:48 PM »
Because we are gonna take over the world and we need as many people as we can.  ::)

AHA! I KNEW IT! I WAS ON TO YOU AND YOUR SCHEMING WAYS OZZI!







....






















count me in!  8)

shadow1234

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Re: Why spread Parkour?
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2008, 09:45:52 AM »
Lol! If that's the case then I'm down!